Drunk drivers slammed after two cyclists killed

[rietrot]

Shared blame yes... that's not disputed. But the dead cyclists have already paid dearly for their choices. The driver should not go a scott free if he was actually drunk and speeding. That's all I'm saying.

Not sure where you get that cyclists are always the victim? That's a rather large chip that only you can get off your shoulder. Makes no difference to me whether you do or not. But I would hope that you don't act like a d00s to decent law-abiding cyclists you encounter just because you may have come across those few cyclists that really do act stupid when they ride. Don't be a Neanderthal... be lekker ok?

There's no shared blame. The cyclists were on a freeway were they aren't suppose to be in a big group that's also not allowed. The accident didn't even happen on the shoulder of the road but in the middle of the lefthand lane after a bend in the road.
The cyclists are doing everything wrong here.
People that cycle like this gives the rest of us a bad name. They were practically asking to be run over. It could have been a truck a taxi or anyone, but as usual the normal idiots are out blaming speed and alcohol for their own negligence.
There's a reason why hiways have a minimum speed and don't allow bicycles, pedestrians or even small motorcycles.

 

[Cray]

There's no shared blame. The cyclists were on a freeway were they aren't suppose to be in a big group that's also not allowed. The accident didn't even happen on the shoulder of the road but in the middle of the lefthand lane after a bend in the road.
.

Source for that? That is not what the cycling club said..

https://northglennews.co.za/75162/tributes-pour-in-for-m4-cyclists/

In a statement released today, the club stated the group was riding in the yellow demarcated left side of the road when a vehicle travelling at high speed collided with the two rear most riders.

https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/durban-cyclists-were-chatting-laughing-before-deadly-crash-court-hears-20180116

Clark said he was part of a group who had gone on an early morning ride. He thought he was last but then heard voices – laughter – and turned around and saw Da Silva, 46, and Dwyer, 36, about 30m behind him cycling in the emergency lane.

n his evidence, Warrant Officer Bongani Gasa of the SAPS accident combating unit said the "point of impact" was in the emergency lane.

He said he had come to this conclusion because of blood spatter, car and bike parts and coolant on the scene.

 

[rietrot]

. I actually 100% of the time stop at red traffic lights and stop street. 100% of the time. No less.

I don't. I will skip stop streets and robots when it's safe especially late at night in the car and almost always on my bicycle. It isn't rocket science to know who has right of way and when it's safe to cross even if the light is still red.

 

[Emjay]

There's no shared blame. The cyclists were on a freeway were they aren't suppose to be in a big group that's also not allowed. The accident didn't even happen on the shoulder of the road but in the middle of the lefthand lane after a bend in the road.
The cyclists are doing everything wrong here.
People that cycle like this gives the rest of us a bad name. They were practically asking to be run over. It could have been a truck a taxi or anyone, but as usual the normal idiots are out blaming speed and alcohol for their own negligence.
There's a reason why hiways have a minimum speed and don't allow bicycles, pedestrians or even small motorcycles.

And you know this how? Do you have access to first hand witness testimony that we do not? There are witnesses on the scene saying that this guy was speeding, driving recklessly, and seemed drunk, yet you insist on posting this crap?

There are degrees of culpability, and this driver should be locked up for a long time if he is found guilty.

 

[Emjay]

I don't. I will skip stop streets and robots when it's safe especially late at night in the car and almost always on my bicycle. It isn't rocket science to know who has right of way and when it's safe to cross even if the light is still red.

And so you admit to breaking the rules of the road when you deem it necessary. Not much different than those guys that were killed, eh? How ironic.

 

[rietrot]

Source for that? That is not what the cycling club said..

https://northglennews.co.za/75162/tributes-pour-in-for-m4-cyclists/



https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/durban-cyclists-were-chatting-laughing-before-deadly-crash-court-hears-20180116

Murray said the bikes were both mangled and the cyclists were "obviously seriously injured".

While he initially said that the cyclists were both in the emergency lane, after being shown pictures of the scene by Pitman, he conceded that they were in the left hand lane.

News24 article in this thread about the court proceedings.

 

[rietrot]

And so you admit to breaking the rules of the road when you deem it necessary. Not much different than those guys that were killed, eh? How ironic.

If I cross a red light and a taxi runs me over I won't blame the taxi. That's the difference. I have no problem with people breaking the rules, I see them more as guidelines anyway, but then when shït happens which the rules were designed to prevent from happening you have to take responsibility.

 

[Cray]

News24 article in this thread about the court proceedings.

Cool,found it -there does seem to be some contention about that though... I would still like to know how the driver could possibly miss seeing a group of cyclists if he wasn't drunk or speeding.

 

[Emjay]

If I cross a red light and a taxi runs me over I won't blame the taxi. That's the difference. I have no problem with people breaking the rules, I see them more as guidelines anyway, but then when shït happens which the rules were designed to prevent from happening you have to take responsibility.

You are still a hypocrite.

 

[rietrot]

You are still a hypocrite.

No I'm not. My view is perfectly consistent. If you break the rules, own it an don't blame the other guy.

 

[Emjay]

Cool,found it -there does seem to be some contention about that though... I would still like to know how the driver could possibly miss seeing a group of cyclists if he wasn't drunk or speeding.

I have seen pictures of the scene. There are not even skid marks indicating any last second breaking or swerving. The driver hit both of them head on at full speed. They both died on impact. The shoulder lane is so wide, it can accommodate two cyclists riding abreast and still have spare room. Why would they be in the slow lane if this is the case?

The position of the bodies and other witness testimony also don't tell this story. It is a developing case, and I don't think any of us are equipped with all the information to make any assessment of the situation. I just hope that justice prevails.

 

[rietrot]

Cool,found it -there does seem to be some contention about that though... I would still like to know how the driver could possibly miss seeing a group of cyclists if he wasn't drunk or speeding.

I'm not sure exactly were it happened but those hiways do have quite a few sharp blind bends with an uphill the cyclists would have been doing 30km/h if he was in the middle of the road he was being totally negligent.

If it happened in the emergency lane I'll change my view. A car shouldn't drive on the shoulder of the road if you can't see if it's safe. Then the car is at fault.

 

[Emjay]

No I'm not. My view is perfectly consistent. If you break the rules own it anf don't blame the other guy.

The cyclists are doing everything wrong here.
People that cycle like this gives the rest of us a bad name. They were practically asking to be run over. It could have been a truck a taxi or anyone, but as usual the normal idiots are out blaming speed and alcohol for their own negligence.
There's a reason why hiways have a minimum speed and don't allow bicycles, pedestrians or even small motorcycles.

So it's ok for you to give cyclists a bad name, but not everyone else. Like I said, you are a hypocrite and your back pedaling is lame.

I'm not sure exactly were it happened but those hiways do have quite a few sharp blind bends with an uphill the cyclists would have been doing 30km/h if he was in the middle of the road he was being totally negligent.

If it happened in the emergency lane I'll change my view. A car shouldn't drive on the shoulder of the road if you can't see if it's safe. Then the car is at fault.

There was no bend on the road. It was a straight road for quite a while (before and after where the cyclists were hit). It was a beautiful clear morning and the roads are in excellent condition. Think you should stop posting now, because you sound like an idiot.

 

[Adenoid Hynkel]

I have seen pictures of the scene. There are not even skid marks indicating any last second breaking or swerving. The driver hit both of them head on at full speed.

He drove a GTI which has one of the better ABS systems available. ABS brakes will in fact leave faint tire marks on the road but hardly doubt you'll see them from a photo taken.

So unless you've been there and are a reconstructionist that investigated at the scene your point is moot.

 

[rietrot]

I have seen pictures of the scene. There are not even skid marks indicating any last second breaking or swerving. The driver hit both of them head on at full speed. They both died on impact. The shoulder lane is so wide, it can accommodate two cyclists riding abreast and still have spare room. Why would they be in the slow lane if this is the case?

The position of the bodies and other witness testimony also don't tell this story. It is a developing case, and I don't think any of us are equipped with all the information to make any assessment of the situation. I just hope that justice prevails.

These training groups are known to ride in a big pack, more than just 2 abreast

 

[rietrot]

He drove a GTI which has one of the better ABS systems available. ABS brakes will in fact leave faint tire marks on the road but hardly doubt you'll see them from a photo taken.

So unless you've been there and are a reconstructionist that investigated at the scene your point is moot.

It is expected that he didn't brake because he claims that he didn't see them. That's consistent.

 

[Barbarian Conan]

I don't. I will skip stop streets and robots when it's safe especially late at night in the car and almost always on my bicycle. It isn't rocket science to know who has right of way and when it's safe to cross even if the light is still red.

I hope you die. I've been almost killed enough times by red light skippers to have no sympathy for ****s like you.

 

[rietrot]

I hope you die. I've been almost killed enough times by red light skippers to have no sympathy for ****s like you.

Lol I think you misunderstood my post.
Everybody dies sometime.

 

[Cray]

I'm not sure exactly were it happened but those hiways do have quite a few sharp blind bends with an uphill the cyclists would have been doing 30km/h if he was in the middle of the road he was being totally negligent.

Have been trying to determine the exact location of the crash, from my experience the bends on the M4 are pretty open. Agree though, if they where in the middle of the main lane then they where being bloody stupid and negligent.

 

[Cray]

Okay, have found what looks to be the accident site...



There is are two places along the M4 with a brick wall on the side, one with a bend, the other on a straight-- shown here in Google Street View..

Approach to the corner...

https://www.google.co.za/maps/@-29.7950299,31.0434408,3a,75y,48.32h,71.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssVroXyCf5JtWnEVdgK5BVw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Same bend with brick wall...

https://www.google.co.za/maps/@-29.7945949,31.0437989,3a,75y,14.18h,64.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srfNkMU4WLkkIgmkoRzPedg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That is not a sharp bend by any stretch of the imagination...


Further along we have this section, on a straight stretch of road..

https://www.google.co.za/maps/@-29.7917827,31.0451464,3a,75y,18.52h,72.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOtvZustMwd18RKZv5-RK1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Also note that the speed limit is 100, not 120.