Sign up with GoogleSlootvreter
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Witnesses meaning fellow cyclists, who saw this guy speed and drive recklessly, and seemed drunk? :crylaugh:
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Drunk drivers slammed after two cyclists killed
- Thread starter nightjar
- Start date
Witnesses meaning fellow cyclists, who saw this guy speed and drive recklessly, and seemed drunk? :crylaugh:
rietrot
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Ja this is the main thing for me. The guy needs to explain why/how he didn't see a group of cyclists riding across the entire hiway. If he doesn't offer up any reasonable excuse he should go to jail.
What time does sun rise when this happened.
Cray
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https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/south-africa/durban
For early February, "daylight" would be from 5:30, the time of the accident would be Nautical/Civil twilight - freeway is right next to the coast so it would be pretty light at 5pm.
Emjay
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There was a witness who was driving a motor vehicle who stopped. Those were his words.
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Emjay
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The bikes also had rear lights - so not really an excuse. Nor is the rising sun.
yeah... go swim on the wrong side of the shark nets, but wear a life jacket. blame the drunk life guard for not saving you.
why are bicycles and pedestrians not allowed on these roads? because this happens!!!
pretend the driver sneezed(you cant sneeze with your eyes open), or he changed the radio station, or a friggin cricket jumped up his shorts, OR!! he fell asleep! it does not matter. there are many things you are allowed and supposed to do while driving that makes you take your eyes of the road.
the cyclist were in a place they were not supposed to be in, because what has happened, can happen to them. THEIR stupid decision to cycle in a place they are not allowed to cost them their life.
i say again, the very reason for having these pedestrian and cycling laws are because of this. its really not rocket science.
edit: i have seen the flashing rear light get covered by the little bag under their seat, then also reflectors only reflecting when you are right on top of the person. still, this is irrelevant.
why are bicycles and pedestrians not allowed on these roads? because this happens!!!
pretend the driver sneezed(you cant sneeze with your eyes open), or he changed the radio station, or a friggin cricket jumped up his shorts, OR!! he fell asleep! it does not matter. there are many things you are allowed and supposed to do while driving that makes you take your eyes of the road.
the cyclist were in a place they were not supposed to be in, because what has happened, can happen to them. THEIR stupid decision to cycle in a place they are not allowed to cost them their life.
i say again, the very reason for having these pedestrian and cycling laws are because of this. its really not rocket science.
edit: i have seen the flashing rear light get covered by the little bag under their seat, then also reflectors only reflecting when you are right on top of the person. still, this is irrelevant.
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Mephisto_Helix
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keep beating that drum for the drunken driver, never gets old seeing people supporting their kind of idiot ......
pinball wizard
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You are wasting your internets. Slootvreter, despite his objections, is a drunk driving apologist.
schumi
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Reconstruction specialist in Durban cyclists case accused of being biased
Durban - A police accident reconstruction specialist, testifying in the culpable homicide trial of Durban motorist Omesh Ramnarain, was accused of "being biased against the accused" yesterday.
Alleging that Warrant Officer Dumisani Gasa had "manufactured evidence", Ramnarain's advocate Murray Pitman pointed to the fact that since 1997, the policeman had attended 1 200 fatal collisions.
"Your job is to obtain objective evidence… I put it to you that you are not telling this court the truth," he said.
Gasa denied the allegation.
The policeman was on the scene of the accident in the early hours of February 7, 2016, which resulted in the deaths of two cyclists Richard da Silva and Jared Dwyer.
The two had been part of a larger group of cyclists who were heading north out of Durban on the M4 when a black Golf GTI, driven by Ramnarain, crashed into the back of them.
Evidence before Durban Regional Court Magistrate Anand Maharaj has been that the impact was so great that the two men flew through the air before landing some distance from the point of impact.
There has also been evidence that Ramnarain - who was returning from a night out at a local club - smelled of alcohol.
Ramnarain has pleaded not guilty, saying he drank only four ciders that night. He says he did not see the cyclists at all before he heard a "bang" and his windscreen shattered. He claims they must have been cycling in the left-hand lane, and not the emergency lane.
Gasa claims the impact occurred well within the emergency lane. He says he saw Ramnarain being led to a police vehicle and he was "unsteady on his feet". Later, he spoke to him and could smell alcohol on his breath.
Pitman said his client did not recall speaking to Gasa at all.
He questioned why Gasa had not written his observations down suggesting that he was "reporting what you heard from other people…. not what you saw".
While Gasa testified that he had seen a "flashing red light" on the back of one of the mangled bicycles, he could not explain why there was no photograph of that.
He could also not explain why there was no debris at the alleged point of impact and on what he based his prior evidence that Ramnarain had been driving at "above average speed".
Gasa is expected to return to court on Thursday with more photographs of the scene and to answer more questions.
News24
https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/...yclists-case-accused-of-being-biased-20180117
Durban - A police accident reconstruction specialist, testifying in the culpable homicide trial of Durban motorist Omesh Ramnarain, was accused of "being biased against the accused" yesterday.
Alleging that Warrant Officer Dumisani Gasa had "manufactured evidence", Ramnarain's advocate Murray Pitman pointed to the fact that since 1997, the policeman had attended 1 200 fatal collisions.
"Your job is to obtain objective evidence… I put it to you that you are not telling this court the truth," he said.
Gasa denied the allegation.
The policeman was on the scene of the accident in the early hours of February 7, 2016, which resulted in the deaths of two cyclists Richard da Silva and Jared Dwyer.
The two had been part of a larger group of cyclists who were heading north out of Durban on the M4 when a black Golf GTI, driven by Ramnarain, crashed into the back of them.
Evidence before Durban Regional Court Magistrate Anand Maharaj has been that the impact was so great that the two men flew through the air before landing some distance from the point of impact.
There has also been evidence that Ramnarain - who was returning from a night out at a local club - smelled of alcohol.
Ramnarain has pleaded not guilty, saying he drank only four ciders that night. He says he did not see the cyclists at all before he heard a "bang" and his windscreen shattered. He claims they must have been cycling in the left-hand lane, and not the emergency lane.
Gasa claims the impact occurred well within the emergency lane. He says he saw Ramnarain being led to a police vehicle and he was "unsteady on his feet". Later, he spoke to him and could smell alcohol on his breath.
Pitman said his client did not recall speaking to Gasa at all.
He questioned why Gasa had not written his observations down suggesting that he was "reporting what you heard from other people…. not what you saw".
While Gasa testified that he had seen a "flashing red light" on the back of one of the mangled bicycles, he could not explain why there was no photograph of that.
He could also not explain why there was no debris at the alleged point of impact and on what he based his prior evidence that Ramnarain had been driving at "above average speed".
Gasa is expected to return to court on Thursday with more photographs of the scene and to answer more questions.
News24
https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/...yclists-case-accused-of-being-biased-20180117
crackersa
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rising sun can hit you directly in the eyes....
ponder
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Wrote a car off in a similar fashion. Came into dbn early in the morning sun directly behind me, sun was shining on the robots and to me they were green so I just kept going, next moment I saw a car in the corner of my left eye but by then it was too late, got t-boned and also took out the robot. Durban metro cops basically said I was not the first to see the lights as green in the sunlight.
Also not uncommon to come around a corner having the sun shine directly in your eyes completely blinding you.
Slootvreter
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No I am not. I have a problem with cyclists riding where they are not allowed to. We have one witness who claims the guy was drunk. Has this guy even been tested? (Serious question, a quick skim through all these articles tell me he has not)
Cray
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The M4 runs North-North-East/South-South-West along up the coast with minors deviation, no way the sun was in his eyes.
Emjay
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Probably not because our justice system does actually try to get justice. People are lackadaisical in their jobs.
Please, tell me with a straight face that a youngish guy, driving a GTI, in his 30s, out partying until 5am in the morning, was not drunk or on drugs? He was speeding. There is absolutely no denying it. The bodies were very far from the slight bend in the road. He would have had more than enough time to at least swerve into the right lane if he was sober and paying attention. Luckily the courts don't just cavalierly dismiss witness testimony like you have.
Emjay
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Maybe you should read the thread? The issue is not whether the cyclists broke the rules of the road. They clearly did. However, they would have not been killed if the driver of the GTI was allegedly not speeding and/or drunk. Do you see the different levels of culpability? It's really not rocket science.
NarrowBandFtw
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They don't?!?
I witnessed a drunk driver plow through 5 pedestrian tourists not that long ago (google Swedish tourist killed in Blouberg) right in front of my house. One died at the scene and another was in terrible shape, I still wonder if she made it.
The driver was clearly drunk, most witnesses are on record as saying he was speeding. The pedestrians however were walking directly in the road at dusk. Police apparently have bungled the blood test of the driver and we're now heading into year 2 after the incident with said driver roaming the earth scot-free ...
Lesson learned: eye witness testimony means sweet f-all when it comes to proving either speeding or drunk driving.
Emjay
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Sad, sad state of affairs. Must have been very traumatic to witness, and then relive it to try get justice for those souls, and then have it all for nothing. Sorry to hear.
NarrowBandFtw
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You never know until you get to experience it, but I was dealing fairly well I reckon, in the moment calling emergency services, getting outside lights on for them to see better, handing water out to the clearly shocked survivors, giving a statement to the police etc etc etc
The bit that got to me was only months later, finding a grieving father and a beautiful sister of the deceased all the way from Sweden just sitting there on my lawn, crying, trying to make sense of something that just won't ever make sense. What the hell do you say to them?
Anyway, I can confirm the justice system certainly isn't perfect and doesn't always deliver justice, that family is still waiting for theirs.
Slootvreter
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You can argue all you want. Those cyclists were in part to blame. People died, the law needs to take it's course.
how do you know this? how do you know nothing would have happened to them. or do you just believe because they are victims.
the risk of death or injury increases greatly when in these places not fit for them.
i am not condoning drunken driving or backing the driver.
if i was cycling on the n1 and got hit by a vehicle for what ever reason, it doesnt matter, i would blame myself for being where i am not supposed to be.
if i stuck to the rules in the first place, i would be ok.
look after yourself first, keep safe, dont just expect things to go your way. i suppose this is the difference between a darwin candidate and non.