DStv and TopTV battle?

d-_-b said:
There was another provider, I think it was called AstraSat but I remember seeing a dish and viewing it at a friends house, long long time ago.
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AstraSat do not have a license to broadcast encrypted Channels in SA. They only sell free to air equipment.
 
Knersus said:
Bwahahahahahaha! Seriously?! Do you call that anti-competitive? That IS the definition of competition. What a chop.
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I disagree. DSTV has enjoyed a monopoly position for many years and has vast reserves of cash to throw around.
For them to now launch a very similar product against a struggling new market entrant smacks of them abusing their monopoly position to try and steal away more subscribers from the struggling entrant.
TopTV have a very good point here. DSTV could even undercut TopTV if they wanted (the fact that they have not just goes to show how greedy they are).
But pretty much anything DSTV does to attack the new competition can be viewed as them abusing their dominant position.

It would be "competition" if the playing field were level... but DSTV has an enormous advantage over anybody else in just about every area.
 
Garyvdh said:
I disagree. DSTV has enjoyed a monopoly position for many years and has vast reserves of cash to throw around.
For them to now launch a very similar product against a struggling new market entrant smacks of them abusing their monopoly position to try and steal away more subscribers from the struggling entrant.
TopTV have a very good point here. DSTV could even undercut TopTV if they wanted (the fact that they have not just goes to show how greedy they are).
But pretty much anything DSTV does to attack the new competition can be viewed as them abusing their dominant position.

It would be "competition" if the playing field were level... but DSTV has an enormous advantage over anybody else in just about every area.
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If DSTV had launched a R10p.m product to undercut the entrant then that could be referred to the comp. commission. In this case they did not do anything wrong, just direct competition.
 
Knersus said:
Hmmmhh.. why is that??? Is it maybe because 170 000 subscribers who bought TopTV decoders found that the content SUCKED so much that they cancelled their contracts (and even went back to multichoice)? .
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Mine's lying in a cupboard. I was keeping it for the pron!! So yeah I'm one of those
 
Knersus said:
Bwahahahahahaha! Seriously?! Do you call that anti-competitive? That IS the definition of competition. What a chop.



Hmmmhh.. why is that??? Is it maybe because 170 000 subscribers who bought TopTV decoders found that the content SUCKED so much that they cancelled their contracts (and even went back to multichoice)? (or do they have some free package that I don't know about? :erm: )

Anyways... the signs are clear as daylight: trying to add porn channels, moaning about "anti-competitive" behavior, moaning about this and that, bad customer support, having no subscribers... this company is going DOWN. I wonder if they will be around this time next year....
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Damn straight. I had TopTV for over a year and gave them the benefit of the doubt. Hoping that they might source decent channels but it just never got any better. The content is horrendous.
I'm not terribly confident in the new CEO's statements of learning from their mistakes.

You can't bitch about another company being anti-competitive if you're not trying to compete.

I also don't see them surviving a year.

I gave up and upgraded my line speed so I can watch whatever I want.
 
Top TV is seriously lagging behind Multichoice. For one, they don't offer sport channels. Moreover, they do not have PVR or HD channels. Does TOP TV still expect people to record their shows with VCR's? Maybe Top TV should stop blaming the competition and look what they are doing wrong. It is not complicated.
 
Garyvdh said:
I disagree. DSTV has enjoyed a monopoly position for many years and has vast reserves of cash to throw around.
For them to now launch a very similar product against a struggling new market entrant smacks of them abusing their monopoly position to try and steal away more subscribers from the struggling entrant.
TopTV have a very good point here. DSTV could even undercut TopTV if they wanted (the fact that they have not just goes to show how greedy they are).
But pretty much anything DSTV does to attack the new competition can be viewed as them abusing their dominant position.

It would be "competition" if the playing field were level... but DSTV has an enormous advantage over anybody else in just about every area.
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Being in a dominant position does not neccessarily make them "anti-competitive". If I decided to start up a new bank for instance to compete with Absa, FNB etc, they would have a huge advantage over me and the only way I could compete is if I offered something different (like Capitec got into the game) or if I had loads and loads of cash to throw at it. TopTV is not doing any of these things - they are not being different (ie better.. better content, better PVR, more HD channels, more choice) and they are not throwing loads of cash at it (if they did they would be able to afford sport channels). So I'm sorry but that is just too bad for them and it's in no way Multichoices fault. What should Multichoice do to level the playing fields? Should they stop putting out great content, or stop broadcasting all the sport? It would make no sense for them.

Yes, they are in a very dominant position for sure, but all that time there was nothing (that I know of) that stopped other players from competing with them. The others only started waking up now, and now it's too late and too costly to compete effectively.
 
Knersus said:
Being in a dominant position does not neccessarily make them "anti-competitive". If I decided to start up a new bank for instance to compete with Absa, FNB etc, they would have a huge advantage over me and the only way I could compete is if I offered something different (like Capitec got into the game) or if I had loads and loads of cash to throw at it. TopTV is not doing any of these things - they are not being different (ie better.. better content, better PVR, more HD channels, more choice) and they are not throwing loads of cash at it (if they did they would be able to afford sport channels). So I'm sorry but that is just too bad for them and it's in no way Multichoices fault. What should Multichoice do to level the playing fields? Should they stop putting out great content, or stop broadcasting all the sport? It would make no sense for them.

Yes, they are in a very dominant position for sure, but all that time there was nothing (that I know of) that stopped other players from competing with them. The others only started waking up now, and now it's too late and too costly to compete effectively.
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So you don't find it suspicious at all the DSTV suddenly only came up with this product when TopTV appeared on the horizon? :rolleyes:

And there was plenty that stopped other players from entering into the market, not least that they could not get a Licence to operate from ICASA.
And not least that DSTV has just about bought up every available feed from overseas sources leaving very meager offerings for anyone else starting up.
 
Garyvdh said:
So you don't find it suspicious at all the DSTV suddenly only came up with this product when TopTV appeared on the horizon? :rolleyes:
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Why is that not legal or fair competition? Being a monopoly meant they didn't need to move for anyone.

Garyvdh said:
And not least that DSTV has just about bought up every available feed from overseas sources leaving very meager offerings for anyone else starting up.
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Yes, tying up content all decent content for eons into the future is definite anti-competitive behaviour and this top tv CEO ought to focus on that instead of the ramblings about fearing competing product. I think top tv thought their bitchy "we are not here to compete with DSTV" would spare them MC's resources.
 
Garyvdh said:
So you don't find it suspicious at all the DSTV suddenly only came up with this product when TopTV appeared on the horizon? :rolleyes:
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I don't find that suspicious, I find that is just normal competition like anywhere else in the free world.

The other point about dstv buying up all the good shows... now there I do agree with you and I can see how that is anti competitive to toptv, but you have to wonder how much of it is locked in by long term dstv contracts and how much of it is just too expensive for TopTV to afford... I don't know. But if I was TopTv I would rather put all my focus on trying to source decent content elsewhere.
 
look at what dstv has done for the PSL.
when SABC had PSL, nobody cared, and it was rubbish.
then DSTV bought the rights, for a ****load of money, and the public interest outside of diehard stadium attending fans has increased dramatically, which in turn has increase the stadium attendance.

so, if toptv are willing to pay the 4-6billion that dstv will pay for PSL rights, then sure, share with them.
 
Knersus said:
I don't find that suspicious, I find that is just normal competition like anywhere else in the free world.

The other point about dstv buying up all the good shows... now there I do agree with you and I can see how that is anti competitive to toptv, but you have to wonder how much of it is locked in by long term dstv contracts and how much of it is just too expensive for TopTV to afford... I don't know. But if I was TopTv I would rather put all my focus on trying to source decent content elsewhere.
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Agreed. Releasing a similar product is about as simple as competition can get. I bring something out and my competition tries to make a better version for less. Without that there would be no product improvement.
Instead of bitching TopTV should use it to drive some improvement and try to be better.

I really do think that DSTV simply had the buying power and foresight to get the long term contracts. There is also no way that TopTV would be able to afford some of the stuff. I'm sure there is plenty of decent content out there that isn't bought up or too expensive.

All of this seems very suspicious. Only days ago the CEO released a statement on how they made mistakes and were sorry and would do their best to make it right. I'm wondering is this is just a ploy to shift the blame from themselves...
 
TopTv: Hey look we've got ID,TLC
MC : Not fair that TT have it. We must have it too.
TopTv : We got it first and we saw the gap in the market
MC : Shut up We have the money to do what we want. Nobody can tell us what to do.
TopTV : Can we get any of the channels you broadcast?
MC : No, then you will become to big for your'e shoes !!!!
TopTv : %$^&* Bully
MC : Money talks
TopTV : What about the lower income group, they also want to see decent shows.
MC : We don't worry about them.
TopTv : Your'e to greedy.
MC : Shut UP
TopTV : SCREW YOU !!!!!
 
TopTV knew the market place before launching. They were entering the market against a long established dominant monopoly. Other licensees didn't even bother launching. So why try and compete at exactly the same game? When consumers are offered crap for between R99 and R600 or mega-crap between R99 and R300, most will usually choose crap over mega-crap. TopTV needs to innovate. There is massive scope for innovation against a Goliath in a market based on fast changing technology. Stop bitching inside the box. Note the Goliath's weaknesses, research consumer needs, find a tech partner, innovate and compete.
 
Simple things like making EPG data available electronically would be a start!!
 
Level the Playing Fields

Biggie said:
Hmm sadly yes.But i do think they are able to pay for sport.Ifaik there was a 1billion rand loan they didn't use.All toptv needs is sport in where SA teams compete.They can win the sport battle by studying the UK case of Sky sports and leave the R99 bitching.
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I don't think that any other satellite or internet service will ever be able to compete with Dstv until something is done about sport. Access to sport is the only reason that many subscribers belong to Multichoice. With 20 years of monopoly they now have a stranglehold over the access to the mainstream sporting calendar.

Other companies should be able to access those sports otherwise they will NEVER be able to compete. If everybody had access then it would come down to the quality of the other offerings apart from sport.

Some way needs to be found to achieve this - maybe all companies should have access and payment is made pro-rata in accordance with subscriber numbers per company ?
 
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