E-toll Bill debate postponed

I don't draw pictures anymore. Just start reading from the first paragraph of your post and try to concentrate once you come across the name Herman Groenewald, you will see the light.

ForFarkSake... I wish I got paid for explaining things to people! :mad:

1) Herman Gronewald is a member of the DA. He sent a letter asking for a delay. But he has no power to actually cause the delay.
2) Mninwa Mahlangu is a member of the ANC and the Chairperson of the NCOP. He is the one who caused the delay.
3) No reason was given for the delay, so you have no basis to say that it was as a result of the letter sent by the DA. maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. But we have not been given a reason.

Kapish?
 
ForFarkSake... I wish I got paid for explaining things to people! :mad:

1) Herman Gronewald is a member of the DA. He sent a letter asking for a delay. But he has no power to actually cause the delay.
2) Mninwa Mahlangu is a member of the ANC and the Chairperson of the NCOP. He is the one who caused the delay.
3) No reason was given for the delay, so you have no basis to say that it was as a result of the letter sent by the DA. maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. But we have not been given a reason.

Kapish?

Don't be naive bro. DA complained about procedure and ANC knows what happens when they ignore DA's complaints about procedure: the matter always lands up in court which will cause a much longer delay. There would be no delay if there was no DA complaint, DA has already voice concern about the bill being steamrolled. And don't expect the ANC to say that they are postponing because of pressure from DA. I don't want to draw a detailed picture so I'll just leave here: just read between the lines mfowethu.
 
Don't be naive bro. DA complained about procedure and ANC knows what happens when they ignore DA's complaints about procedure: the matter always lands up in court which will cause a much longer delay. There would be no delay if there was no DA complaint, DA has already voice concern about the bill being steamrolled. And don't expect the ANC to say that they are postponing because of pressure from DA. I don't want to draw a detailed picture so I'll just leave here: just read between the lines mfowethu.

So you have some kind of insight into the brain of this guy Mahlangu? You are some kind of mind reader?
Or you are just sucking all of this out of your thumb?

This bill is headed to the Constitutional Court no matter how it is approved or modified.
The entire bill is problematic. The ANC knows that, so there is no point to delaying it for the DA's sake.
If you seriously believe that the ANC would delay it at the DA's request then you are the naive one.
 
So you have some kind of insight into the brain of this guy Mahlangu? You are some kind of mind reader?
Or you are just sucking all of this out of your thumb?

This bill is headed to the Constitutional Court no matter how it is approved or modified.
The entire bill is problematic. The ANC knows that, so there is no point to delaying it for the DA's sake.
If you seriously believe that the ANC would delay it at the DA's request then you are the naive one.

OK Gary, you and the others are right. ANC is chickening out because it doesn't want to piss-off its supporters who use the e-toll roads.
 
Don't be naive bro. DA complained about procedure and ANC knows what happens when they ignore DA's complaints about procedure: the matter always lands up in court which will cause a much longer delay. There would be no delay if there was no DA complaint, DA has already voice concern about the bill being steamrolled. And don't expect the ANC to say that they are postponing because of pressure from DA. I don't want to draw a detailed picture so I'll just leave here: just read between the lines mfowethu.

Thank goodness for the DA then, without them looking after the interests of the people the ANC would just bungle everything through .. exactly like they screwed up e-tolls.
 
I think they are waiting for the Protection of State Information Bill.It will stop any later challenges and enquiries.
 
So they want royal rights to seize funds from everyone's bank accounts? That will be a royal fsuckup as I smell the legal corruption already. My mattress is starting to look real handy as a safe.
 
Don't be naive bro. DA complained about procedure and ANC knows what happens when they ignore DA's complaints about procedure: the matter always lands up in court which will cause a much longer delay. There would be no delay if there was no DA complaint, DA has already voice concern about the bill being steamrolled. And don't expect the ANC to say that they are postponing because of pressure from DA. I don't want to draw a detailed picture so I'll just leave here: just read between the lines mfowethu.

Not sure if you trolling or serious, but anyway - what probably happened was the DA said there must be a delay because of procedural issue. So the ANC went to their legal team and asked them for an opinion, and they probably came back saying - hey you guys did stuff up, the DA is right, if you go ahead you are looking for more trouble - just delay the issue do it properly etc. etc. etc. This is not rocket science or difficult to understand. The ANC tried to short circuit the process and got shocked!!! :)
 
I don't understand the logic.

...and I don't understand how you've not passed out from the methane fumes as a result of your ANC brown-nosing.

It's seems more and more like you are one of the ANC cadres so what I'd like to know is how much do you stand to gain out of this whole e-tag money pit? You're so pro e-tag you must be getting something out of this?!
 
Not sure if you trolling or serious, but anyway - what probably happened was the DA said there must be a delay because of procedural issue. So the ANC went to their legal team and asked them for an opinion, and they probably came back saying - hey you guys did stuff up, the DA is right, if you go ahead you are looking for more trouble - just delay the issue do it properly etc. etc. etc. This is not rocket science or difficult to understand. The ANC tried to short circuit the process and got shocked!!! :)

Exactly.

I didn't want to draw that picture for Gary.
 
Exactly.

I didn't want to draw that picture for Gary.

What probably happened and what definitely happened are two completely different things. :rolleyes:
You are still making unfounded assumptions and have no way of proving your theory.
I honestly don't care if the DA did cause it, but let's at least try to maintain some semblance of accuracy, OK?
 
...and I don't understand how you've not passed out from the methane fumes as a result of your ANC brown-nosing.

It's seems more and more like you are one of the ANC cadres so what I'd like to know is how much do you stand to gain out of this whole e-tag money pit? You're so pro e-tag you must be getting something out of this?!

I don't draw pictures anymore
 
What probably happened and what definitely happened are two completely different things. :rolleyes:
You are still making unfounded assumptions and have no way of proving your theory.
I honestly don't care if the DA did cause it, but let's at least try to maintain some semblance of accuracy, OK?

OK
 
Minister takes on ANC MPs over e-tolls

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-05-17-00-minister-takes-on-anc-mps-over-e-tolls

A debate on the e-Tolls Bill in Parliament has been postponed until further notice after ANC members proposed an amendment that would oblige Transport Minister Ben *Martins to seek Parliamentary approval in setting toll prices.

The National Council of Provinces (NCOP) had been scheduled to approve the proposed Transport Laws and Related Matters Amendment Bill, but it will be referred back to the select committee on public services for further consideration.

ANC sources who did not want to be named said a number of meetings have been held this week between Martins and ANC members who sit on the committee as well as between the transport department's legal advisors and ANC whips in the NCOP.

"The minister sent legal advisors to the ANC caucus, saying that the amendment [that gives Parliament more say in determining toll prices] has far-reaching implications," said one source.

The source also said Martins and his advisors want the amended *section deleted from the Bill.

"The concern is that we [the NCOP] might deal with the issue of pricing and this will also lead to delays in implementing e-tolling," said another source.

Spokesperson for the transport department Tiyani Rikhotso said, as an ANC MP, Martins sits in meetings of the caucus and ANC study group that meets every week. He denied the allegation that the department's legal advisors met with ANC members of the committee. He said Martins was aware of and respected the processes of Parliament and therefore would always abide by the outcome of the deliberations of the NCOP, but could not comment on ongoing discussions at the NCOP.

MPs were sent SMSes and emails on Tuesday afternoon informing them of the postponement of the debate and vote until "further notice". No reason was provided.

Explaining the proposed amendment, Raseriti Tau – a member of the committee processing the Bill – said it does not deal with the actual payment of tolls. These are set in the regulations, which the minister drafts after the Bill has been passed.

The Bill also stipulates that the South African National Roads Agency (Sanral), in co-operation with the province and the municipality in which the proposed toll roads are situated, must perform socioeconomic and traffic impact assessments pertaining to the proposed toll. Sanral is obligated to publish the findings of the assessments.

Tau said the version of the Bill passed by the National Assembly stated that before the transport minister makes any regulation he must submit a draft of the proposed regulation to Parliament for "comment". The committee replaced the word "comment" with "consideration".

"We felt that this provision was too weak and not in line with Section 102 of the Constitution, which clearly empowers Parliament to consider regulations and not just comment.

"We also felt that this provision undermines our own internal *processes that are intended to give effect to Section 101 of the Constitution such as the role of the joint committee on delegated legislation," said Tau. The motivation for the change was that "consideration" would allow a process for MPs not only to comment but possibly also to propose changes to the regulations, he said.

It also meant that MPs would have to examine the socioeconomic and traffic impact assessments done by the province and the municipality, as well as the report of the *public *comments and plans for alternate routes and mitigating factors against concerns raised by a *premier, a municipality or the public. But the amendment also means the Bill will have to go back to the National Assembly for further consideration.

Tau rejected suggestions that the process would delay Sanral's plans to start tolling next month. "The intention is not to delay or derail but to affirm Parliament's role in writing legislation," he said.

He confirmed that the committee would consider the determination of toll fees. "Those are issues that we will look at … whether the government as a whole has done its best in applying its mind on how the law will affect our people," he said.

Oh, lookie... the delay has nothing whatsoever to do with the DA! :rolleyes:
 
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