Early e-tag deductions spark fury

They still have no idea what legal avenues they have to implement criminal charges against people who don't pay..

So expect that to take another year at least, and then possibly have to have an amendment passed which will be another year... which will not enable them to collect tolls owed to them prior to the law being passed...
 
Only a fool would buy an e-tag and sign up for corruption and theft to be waged against them!! I will not EVER buy an e-tag! I will be working the backroads! There is enough we cough up for in SA this is just another hence the new secrecy bill which will probably silence any news of which MPs will be getting cuts from these tolls hahahaha
 
Your Common Law Right to travel unhindered.

CASE #1: "The use of the highway for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere privilege, but a common fundamental right of which the public and individuals cannot rightfully be deprived." Chicago Motor Coach v. Chicago, 169 NE 221.

CASE #2: "The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.

Read the article and get some understanding and then....get angry.
 
Only a fool would buy an e-tag and sign up for corruption and theft to be waged against them!! I will not EVER buy an e-tag! I will be working the backroads! There is enough we cough up for in SA this is just another hence the new secrecy bill which will probably silence any news of which MPs will be getting cuts from these tolls hahahaha

How much extra time/distance/fuel will the backroads cost you vs. the N3 parking lot?
 
Your Common Law Right to travel unhindered.

CASE #1: "The use of the highway for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere privilege, but a common fundamental right of which the public and individuals cannot rightfully be deprived." Chicago Motor Coach v. Chicago, 169 NE 221.

CASE #2: "The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.

Read the article and get some understanding and then....get angry.

Does those apply locally?
 
Your Common Law Right to travel unhindered.

CASE #1: "The use of the highway for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere privilege, but a common fundamental right of which the public and individuals cannot rightfully be deprived." Chicago Motor Coach v. Chicago, 169 NE 221.

CASE #2: "The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.

Read the article and get some understanding and then....get angry.

Good for the American citizens.
 
Your Common Law Right to travel unhindered.

CASE #1: "The use of the highway for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere privilege, but a common fundamental right of which the public and individuals cannot rightfully be deprived." Chicago Motor Coach v. Chicago, 169 NE 221.

CASE #2: "The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.

Read the article and get some understanding and then....get angry.

Unfortunately, what you quote are american laws.. not South African.
 
They call it civil disobedience, I call it my constitution right of freedom of movement and right to work (and get to it).

There is a legal grey areas on the presecution of offenders as there are currently three legal opions, NPA, SANRAL and NGOs fighting against the tolls. Therefore, unless there is a case and therefore case law is created, there is no real agreement on the prosecution.

Then we take it on step further. If the estimated 25Million transactions will occur daily on the toll roads, and 10% of them don't pay, it will be impossible to send out infringements to all of them as the cost will outway the benefit. Then 10% of those people can take it to court, which leads to more money to be spend by SANRAL. So, at the end, the cost will outway the benefit.

The admin fees that are suddenly appearing is again an incredible lack of transparency towards the whole thing.

But what is the cherry on the cake is the fact that taxis and buses won't pay toll fees (according to the last reports). So, it creates a perception that it is target at the working (tax paying) middle to upper class that is already paying between 60-70% tax (personal tax + VAT + petrol + capital gains + etc.).

The disconent towards the eTolls is the beginning of the tipping point of where South Africans "eat-the-crap" threshold. This is why we are all fighting back by being disobedient towards the eTolls. Then the argument comes in that it will create a precedent for anything that government wants to implement, but it can also be argued that if government is efficient and effective, it will not occur. The concept of bulldozing laws and enforcing it upon the citizens are ending.

At the end, people are getting tired of putting money into a system that is not delivering at any level.
 
They call it civil disobedience, I call it my constitution right of freedom of movement and right to work (and get to it).

There is a legal grey areas on the presecution of offenders as there are currently three legal opions, NPA, SANRAL and NGOs fighting against the tolls. Therefore, unless there is a case and therefore case law is created, there is no real agreement on the prosecution.

Then we take it on step further. If the estimated 25Million transactions will occur daily on the toll roads, and 10% of them don't pay, it will be impossible to send out infringements to all of them as the cost will outway the benefit. Then 10% of those people can take it to court, which leads to more money to be spend by SANRAL. So, at the end, the cost will outway the benefit.

The admin fees that are suddenly appearing is again an incredible lack of transparency towards the whole thing.

But what is the cherry on the cake is the fact that taxis and buses won't pay toll fees (according to the last reports). So, it creates a perception that it is target at the working (tax paying) middle to upper class that is already paying between 60-70% tax (personal tax + VAT + petrol + capital gains + etc.).

The disconent towards the eTolls is the beginning of the tipping point of where South Africans "eat-the-crap" threshold. This is why we are all fighting back by being disobedient towards the eTolls. Then the argument comes in that it will create a precedent for anything that government wants to implement, but it can also be argued that if government is efficient and effective, it will not occur. The concept of bulldozing laws and enforcing it upon the citizens are ending.

At the end, people are getting tired of putting money into a system that is not delivering at any level.

And Cosatu apperently has our back or us theirs...
 
They call it civil disobedience, I call it my constitution right of freedom of movement and right to work (and get to it).

There is a legal grey areas on the presecution of offenders as there are currently three legal opions, NPA, SANRAL and NGOs fighting against the tolls. Therefore, unless there is a case and therefore case law is created, there is no real agreement on the prosecution.

Then we take it on step further. If the estimated 25Million transactions will occur daily on the toll roads, and 10% of them don't pay, it will be impossible to send out infringements to all of them as the cost will outway the benefit. Then 10% of those people can take it to court, which leads to more money to be spend by SANRAL. So, at the end, the cost will outway the benefit.

The admin fees that are suddenly appearing is again an incredible lack of transparency towards the whole thing.

But what is the cherry on the cake is the fact that taxis and buses won't pay toll fees (according to the last reports). So, it creates a perception that it is target at the working (tax paying) middle to upper class that is already paying between 60-70% tax (personal tax + VAT + petrol + capital gains + etc.).

The disconent towards the eTolls is the beginning of the tipping point of where South Africans "eat-the-crap" threshold. This is why we are all fighting back by being disobedient towards the eTolls. Then the argument comes in that it will create a precedent for anything that government wants to implement, but it can also be argued that if government is efficient and effective, it will not occur. The concept of bulldozing laws and enforcing it upon the citizens are ending.

At the end, people are getting tired of putting money into a system that is not delivering at any level.

*spits out coffee* 25 Million transactions a day! Where do you get that figure from? There are only about 7 million cars in the whole country.
 
Just as an addendum to this, and contrary to what has been said in the media by our "esteemed" guavamint spokespeople...

As per the law, the "road tax" we all pay when we buy petrol is meant to be paid over to SANRAL in full..... So SANRAL effectively got R32Bn last year from the government.. before any extra funding etc etc etc...
 
How much extra time/distance/fuel will the backroads cost you vs. the N3 parking lot?

Hey Fudzy - I don't use the N3 I work in JHB live in Midrand and M1will bypass the N1/N3 tolls. TO Witbank I get on the R21 at Olifantsfontein and then off at the R25 - no gates passed or none that can determine distance for billing purposes.

Let's say there is no impact at the moment. :)
 
*spits out coffee* 25 Million transactions a day! Where do you get that figure from? There are only about 7 million cars in the whole country.

Thats is for all the gantries. One trip can include up to 12 or more gantries, the same car can do multiple trips.

For me, to work and home will be about 10 gantries I think. they're still building some of them.
 
Hey Fudzy - I don't use the N3 I work in JHB live in Midrand and M1will bypass the N1/N3 tolls. TO Witbank I get on the R21 at Olifantsfontein and then off at the R25 - no gates passed or none that can determine distance for billing purposes.

Let's say there is no impact at the moment. :)

Untill they build gantries on the M1 too. Its in the plans.
 
*spits out coffee* 25 Million transactions a day! Where do you get that figure from? There are only about 7 million cars in the whole country.

Ok.. I also think the 25m is an excesive figure..

But lets assume a conservative number (200000) vehicles travel between PTA and JHB (Gilooly's) each day... That is 13 Gantries... so "13" transactions per one way trip... so effectively 26 "transactions" per work day for those 200000 vehicles which ends up being 5200000 "transactions" each day..
 
Ok.. I also think the 25m is an excesive figure..

But lets assume a conservative number (200000) vehicles travel between PTA and JHB (Gilooly's) each day... That is 13 Gantries... so "13" transactions per one way trip... so effectively 26 "transactions" per work day for those 200000 vehicles which ends up being 5200000 "transactions" each day..

Yeah like a more realistic figure, is the charge the same on each point? It's not like the stretch from Dbn to Jhb where you pay R5 at one toll road and R200 at another.
 
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