Budza
Executive Member
Thanks - the load is apparently ~20W, 10ea for the router and fibre ONT.
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El-Cheapo UPS Battery replacement: Can I use Lithium (LiPo)?
- Thread starter Budza
- Start date
Thanks - the load is apparently ~20W, 10ea for the router and fibre ONT.
Budza
Executive Member
I have been testing a Bluenova 8Ah in a Sherlotronic Backup 12v PSU unit for about two weeks - I posted about it somehere else in this forum.
The Bluenova LiFePO4 are specified to be drop-in replacements for LA
Read:
BlueNova BN13V-8-104Wh MPS LiFePO4 Battery - Sustainable.co.za
<p style="text-align: justify;"><strong>Product Features</strong></p> <ul class=disc style="text-align: justify;"> <li>Ultra-safe Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) technology.</li> <li>Integrated battery management System (BMS).</li> <li>Light weight &www.sustainable.co.za
High Discharge Rate Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) Battery
The 12 Volt, 7.2 Amp Hour LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) battery is designed to be a drop in replacement for standard sealed lead acid batteries.www.backupbatterypower.com
My measurements to date indicate they may be better suited to these 12volt backups rather than a UPS but you do not seem to require a high current burst from you UPS which will ameliorate the conditions somewhat..
Also remember that they have their own integrated BMS
I saw that - the BMS should make all the difference.
I'll likely just go for this and record the experience here
I think his advice is the best so far. Go to some kind of DC battery backup thing. You'll get days of runtime out of that. I did something similar for our apartment block. 100Ah battery on a charger with the network and security stuff wired in parallel. It never goes off even when our main power cable broke over a weekend.
Geoff.D
Honorary Master
I just had a look at the blue nova thingies. I contacted their chat guy, gave him the model number and make of an integrated UPS I have and asked him straight out if the battery can be used in it? He responded with a vague statement a reference to their UPS models. I then asked him if these batteries could be used in Centurion gate motors and again he dodged the issue by saying that they can be used as replacements for equivalent LA batteries.
Clearly, they are reluctant to make any firm commitments.
Very undecided and not sure I want to test their claims in one of my appliances.
Clearly, they are reluctant to make any firm commitments.
Very undecided and not sure I want to test their claims in one of my appliances.
I contacted BlueNova a couple of weeks ago with similar questions.
Their BN13V range of LiFePO4 batteries are meant to be drop in replacements with regards to form factor but they still need to be charged by a LiFePO4 charge circuit if you want to get the most out of them.
The bulk, absorption and float voltages for LiFePO4 batteries is not the same as lead acid batteries.
The BlueNova spec sheets have the data in them. If you have a UPS that has a charge circuit designed for lead acid then I wouldn't try using a lithium based battery in it.
Rather buy a decent LiFePO4 charger or an inverter+charger like a Victron Multiplus 500/12 and set the correct battery chemistry and charge voltages so you get the most out of the batteries.
Going OT:
I'm saving up for a Victron Multiplus 500/12 with a BN13V-82Ah (1kWh) to use as a UPS instead of the lead acid based sysyems from Ellies/Mecer. It will cost about 60% more but I don't have to worry about deep discharging, it's smaller, lighter, pure sinewave, solar compatible, bi-directional inverter (ESS rocks), etc.
Their BN13V range of LiFePO4 batteries are meant to be drop in replacements with regards to form factor but they still need to be charged by a LiFePO4 charge circuit if you want to get the most out of them.
The bulk, absorption and float voltages for LiFePO4 batteries is not the same as lead acid batteries.
The BlueNova spec sheets have the data in them. If you have a UPS that has a charge circuit designed for lead acid then I wouldn't try using a lithium based battery in it.
Rather buy a decent LiFePO4 charger or an inverter+charger like a Victron Multiplus 500/12 and set the correct battery chemistry and charge voltages so you get the most out of the batteries.
Going OT:
I'm saving up for a Victron Multiplus 500/12 with a BN13V-82Ah (1kWh) to use as a UPS instead of the lead acid based sysyems from Ellies/Mecer. It will cost about 60% more but I don't have to worry about deep discharging, it's smaller, lighter, pure sinewave, solar compatible, bi-directional inverter (ESS rocks), etc.
I am using this to establish charge and discharge parameters for the smaller BlueNova
I am still investigating how far the Sherlotronic deviates from this but I have noticed that its charge cycle using LA and LiFe is very different
Those units are so easy to build if you have a 3d printer.If only for router and ONT/CPE get a Omnipower Ratel model from Communica or Sinetech - there are different models. I have the Ratel 430M and bought it at Communica.
Another option is something similar from :
Unshed My Load
Unshed My Load - Uninterrupted power supplies and other things to keep you going when your power is outunshedmyload.co.za
Or just replace the batteries on your UPS.
Its a decent price I might give them a go.
Do you know where they are situated (unshed my load)
joshuatree
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Website says pickup is possible in Claremont.
I know somebody that bought the R950 model from them - how I became aware of them/site.
Geoff.D
Honorary Master
Personally, that answers OPs question. Don't install these batteries as replacements in any existing older UPS system, regardless of any claims that resellers of the Blue Nova batteries might make. I got the same opinion from a completely independent source who had nothing to gain by saying so as he had both types of batteries on his shelves.
Dairyfarmer
Executive Member
For a 20w load you need approximately 1ah of every 15 minutes of backup time (12 / 20 / 2 x 0.85 = hours/ah). So a 7ah battery (like a gate motor or alarm system) will give you 1h45m and a 8ah will give you 2 hours. If you connect 3 batteries in parallel you can comfortably get through a 4 hour load shed. You also get 60ah deep cycle batteries, which would give you 15 hours.
Get one of these:
www.communica.co.za
if you only need 12V for routers.
buy some Dc jacks and wire it up.
You can use any size LA battery.
PSU CCTV 12VDC 3A
Power Supply Unit with Battery Backup • 12VDC 3A UPS • with Battery Compartment for 7Ah Battery (Battery NOT Included) Overview Features Input voltage can vary from 90VAC to 265VAC without affecting the output voltage. (output voltage remains constant) Input and output fused Short circuit...
www.communica.co.za
if you only need 12V for routers.
buy some Dc jacks and wire it up.
You can use any size LA battery.
Budza
Executive Member
Do you have links for these? What's the end price going to be?
Budza
Executive Member
If only for router and ONT/CPE get a Omnipower Ratel model from Communica or Sinetech - there are different models. I have the Ratel 430M and bought it at Communica.
Another option is something similar from :
Unshed My Load
Unshed My Load - Uninterrupted power supplies and other things to keep you going when your power is out
Or just replace the batteries on your UPS.
Eish- now I'm going down that rabbit hole.
~R1k for the Ratel 430M and it has an input which can accept Solar...
Now you've got me thinking!
Is there another thread around that and how one might rig up a solar panel for it?
joshuatree
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See the Omnipower Ratel range specs:
Only the 430S and 860p do solar.
Here is a thread with a lot of info regarding these units as well:
Router Battery Backup
What is the wattage on that, about 20w? By those rough numbers @joshuatree ran about 15w for three hours, so 45wh, for 50%. The specs are for 4*2200mah batteries but doesn't say anything about their voltage. 4*2200mah at 12V is 105Wh, which roughly agrees with 45Wh being 50%. Those would be...
mybroadband.co.za
netstrider
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To charge Lithium Iron Phosphate reliably you need the appropriate charger.
These will work
www.digikey.co.za
These will work
Battery Chargers | Electronic Components Distributor DigiKey
Battery Chargers are in stock at DigiKey. Order Now! Battery Products ship same day
As per title, it seems our second ups takes longer than expected to recharge during stage 4 load shedding, which is why it doesn't last through the whole second block in the day.
However, we still have our old 1000va ups which we can replace the batteries and run both, so was wondering where I can get additional batteries? Preferably in Cape Town so I can just walk in and pick them up.
However, we still have our old 1000va ups which we can replace the batteries and run both, so was wondering where I can get additional batteries? Preferably in Cape Town so I can just walk in and pick them up.
newby_investor
Executive Member
A lot of places are out of stock at the moment. Takealot has them last I checked though.
Generally security shops have them because they get used e.g. in gate motors as well. I've seen them in Builders but for double the usual price, I think they're gouging because of load shedding.
Generally security shops have them because they get used e.g. in gate motors as well. I've seen them in Builders but for double the usual price, I think they're gouging because of load shedding.