Emigration....... Are people serious

HavocXphere said:
You should still be able to convert the SA(CA) to whatever they use in the Netherlands. Once qualified the academic route used matters little. Might make the CV look a touch weak though.
Click to expand...

You will need to do an extra year, it is not impossible, this was the case with my sister who worked in the netherlands (She is a CA), she was basically stuck with a multinational company and the local ones are very confused.

I have a BEng and it is more worth my while to do my masters degree in Europe (leaving in October) to avoid having to explain why we are always one year out of sync.

In Europe they do 3 years then you have a BSc and 2 years then you have a masters. In SA we have a 4 year degree/honours and then two years for a masters, meaning you're either one year ahead of behind. Some companies do not care, but I found it a mission to explain to the people what is going on, especially in the netherlands, they do not understand our system very well.
 
Nicodeamus said:
In Europe they do 3 years then you have a BSc and 2 years then you have a masters. In SA we have a 4 year degree/honours and then two years for a masters, meaning you're either one year ahead of behind. Some companies do not care, but I found it a mission to explain to the people what is going on, especially in the netherlands, they do not understand our system very well.
Click to expand...

Is there a 13 year school system btw? In the UK, the regions with 13 years of school have 3 year BSc degrees and the regions with 12 years of schooling (which of course matches SA) have 4 year BSC degrees. Both 3 and 4 year degrees are equivalent to an SA honours degree, but they're all consistently 16 years of total education.
 
cguy said:
Is there a 13 year school system btw? In the UK, the regions with 13 years of school have 3 year BSc degrees and the regions with 12 years of schooling (which of course matches SA) have 4 year BSC degrees. Both 3 and 4 year degrees are equivalent to an SA honours degree, but they're all consistently 16 years of total education.
Click to expand...

It is a bit longer than SA, but that is where more confusion comes in. In the netherlands the kids go to school at age 4 till 12, what we will call primary school. However it is not really comparable, from age 4-9 they do pretty much what we do from grades 1-3 (or old standard 1).

At age 16 the education system splits and at age 18 it can split again. All of the splits depends really on what you're studying some combine practical with theory others are purely theoretical or degree/technikon based. That is why it is really difficult explaining to employers what our degree means (and I won't be surprised if it is similar to the UK).

I know that the British A Level is generally regarded as better than our matric, however it is something between matric and first year university, which makes our comparison just as difficult. The SA system is to my mind totally out of sync with most of continental Europe and needs a bit of modernisation.

This diagram from wikipedia shows the dutch eductional system (and it is a simplification) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Dutch_Education_System-en.svg

As an engineer for example in SA I can register with ECSA and register as a PrIng (Proffesional Engineer), which recognized in the English speaking world. In Germany however it makes no diference if I have a BEng/BSC or a BTech, they regard me as an engineer. If I want to register as a Diplom Engineer (their version of a PrIng)then I need a masters degree and prefferably from a European University or else I will have to prove that I am competent. The CAs face the same dilemma. As I mentioned earlier, multinationals are an easy way to get into Europe, but it is difficult finding work outside of the said company.
 
Last edited:
...ugh I see what you mean. There is no mutual recognition agreement in place with the netherlands. Glad I didn't end up there then because that sounds like a mission
 
HavocXphere said:
...ugh I see what you mean. There is no mutual recognition agreement in place with the netherlands. Glad I didn't end up there then because that sounds like a mission
Click to expand...

I just opted with doing my masters in France so that at least my qualification fits into the EU framework. Luckily with ECSA I am also mobile in the English speaking world.
 
Nicodeamus said:
As an engineer for example in SA I can register with ECSA and register as a PrIng (Proffesional Engineer), which recognized in the English speaking world. In Germany however it makes no diference if I have a BEng/BSC or a BTech, they regard me as an engineer. If I want to register as a Diplom Engineer (their version of a PrIng)then I need a masters degree and prefferably from a European University or else I will have to prove that I am competent. The CAs face the same dilemma. As I mentioned earlier, multinationals are an easy way to get into Europe, but it is difficult finding work outside of the said company.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's odd, in Norway my PrTechEng (BTech) is seen as a fully fledged engineer, even though I'm a Pr Technologist. They also place a lot of weight on skilled blue collar work here. Working in an office doesn't say much and you're not frowned upon for wearing overalls, which I do...and never thought I'd say it but I loved the transition from white collar to blue collar.
 
Voicy said:
Yeah it's odd, in Norway my PrTechEng (BTech) is seen as a fully fledged engineer, even though I'm a Pr Technologist. They also place a lot of weight on skilled blue collar work here. Working in an office doesn't say much and you're not frowned upon for wearing overalls, which I do...and never thought I'd say it but I loved the transition from white collar to blue collar.
Click to expand...

Far less "take home" stress?
 
cguy said:
Far less "take home" stress?
Click to expand...

Yeah man. It's such a weird feeling. I've been project managing for the last 7 years and it's constant stress that stays with you. My last project in SA was worth a couple of hundred mil and had me stressing to death.

Here's the stress is highly localized. You put in 150hrs overtime some months to get the job done, but as soon as you flick the switch and everything works, you get to drive home with zero stress until the next job site, which you can do nothing about until you get there anyway.

The closest I can relate it to is when it's weekend but you have exams the next week. You can't just relax at home, there's always something in the back of your mind that you're worrying about and if you do nothing then you feel guilty about it...now it's like exams are over and you can play tv games all day without feeling bad.
 
Voicy said:
Yeah man. It's such a weird feeling. I've been project managing for the last 7 years and it's constant stress that stays with you. My last project in SA was worth a couple of hundred mil and had me stressing to death.

Here's the stress is highly localized. You put in 150hrs overtime some months to get the job done, but as soon as you flick the switch and everything works, you get to drive home with zero stress until the next job site, which you can do nothing about until you get there anyway.

The closest I can relate it to is when it's weekend but you have exams the next week. You can't just relax at home, there's always something in the back of your mind that you're worrying about and if you do nothing then you feel guilty about it...now it's like exams are over and you can play tv games all day without feeling bad.
Click to expand...

Nice. Definitely makes one think...
 
HavocXphere said:
...ugh I see what you mean. There is no mutual recognition agreement in place with the netherlands. Glad I didn't end up there then because that sounds like a mission
Click to expand...

Saica has mutual recognition with the UK, NZ, Aus, Hong Kong, Canada. I wonder if you register in the UK if there is some reciprocity to Netherlands?
 
Got a house all lined up in England if things get too tight here
 
Nicodeamus said:
As an engineer for example in SA I can register with ECSA and register as a PrIng (Proffesional Engineer), which recognized in the English speaking world. In Germany however it makes no diference if I have a BEng/BSC or a BTech, they regard me as an engineer.
Click to expand...

Professional engineer registration is not transferable to any other country in the world. Your destination country may make it easier for you to register, but you still have to go through the process and pay the fees.

The Washington Accord (and Dublin and Sydney) means our engineering degrees are transferable to signatory countries, but that does not extend to professional registration. You can register as an international professional engineer, of which ECSA is a signatory, but that is an additional registration for which you require more experience than the normal Pr. Eng. registration.

HavocXphere said:
...ugh I see what you mean. There is no mutual recognition agreement in place with the netherlands. Glad I didn't end up there then because that sounds like a mission
Click to expand...

The Netherlands seem to be fairly comfortable with our tertiary education system. The document at https://www.nuffic.nl/en shows a direct comparison between our National Qualification Framework and their corresponding framework. During my interview they said I shouldn't even worry about it and that hey are familiar with the SA framework.
 
No. I'm an EU and U.S citizen, but I spend at least half my year here because I love it and because I make a lot of money here. Learn to appreciate what you have here.
 
Betonro said:
Professional engineer registration is not transferable to any other country in the world. Your destination country may make it easier for you to register, but you still have to go through the process and pay the fees.

The Washington Accord (and Dublin and Sydney) means our engineering degrees are transferable to signatory countries, but that does not extend to professional registration. You can register as an international professional engineer, of which ECSA is a signatory, but that is an additional registration for which you require more experience than the normal Pr. Eng. registration.
Click to expand...
yeah it is an additional one I effectively have to ''reregister'' whereever I go. However if you have done it once through any of the signatory countries than it is generally not an issue proving your competencies. In Europe there is more of a trick to it.

The Netherlands seem to be fairly comfortable with our tertiary education system. The document at https://www.nuffic.nl/en shows a direct comparison between our National Qualification Framework and their corresponding framework. During my interview they said I shouldn't even worry about it and that hey are familiar with the SA framework.
Click to expand...
To me it depended on the given company, multinationals are familier, the smaller dutch firms require some explaining to do.
 
The Voice said:
Note the EU and US citizen part, which gives him the ability to leave at a moment's notice.
Click to expand...

Anyone can go wherever the hell they want. You can leave at a moments notice as well, you're not imprisoned.

diabolus said:
Plus he would not actually be emigrating, he is not a sa citizen, he would merely be returning home.
Click to expand...

I actually hold permanent resident status here which I'm now looking to terminate and go back to Business visa due to tax reasons. That being said, in a sense I would be emigrating if I decided to never come back here again. Which I don't think I'll ever do, because I just came back from a beautiful lunch with my wife at a good restaurant, where we had a delicious bottle of wine and lamb shank and it only costs us the equivalent of a takeaway meal in most other countries.

So I figure I pay off my generator every month I'm here due to the savings from day to day living. :whistle:
 
Velenoso said:
Anyone can go wherever the hell they want. You can leave at a moments notice as well, you're not imprisoned.
Click to expand...

Anyone?

Explain how that works for a normal SA citizen with no overseas connection and no special skills or qualifications...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X