Eskom issues Gauteng network overload warning

[The_Librarian]

Bromhof waar die mense brom oor die nuttelose munsipaliteit...

The sad part is the electricity thieves will start to burn and damage things because they've got no power...

 

[Lupus]

They were talking about the Houtkoppen Substation which is the one that effects Bromhof.

 

[Swa]

No need to freeze. People should be using LPG for heating instead of electricity.
That would also have the added benefit of reducing a large portion of the peak loads. Leaving a 4kW oven/stove on to heat your shack because you get unlimited electicity for free (theft) is a major part of the problem.

I can't see this ending well. Eskom's death spiral will just continue until the majority of their aging infrastructure is replaced by IPPs who are not going to bother supplying any free electricity to the townships.

LPG is expensive. You'd need for the electricity price to double before it makes sense. The only solution is Eskom should fix their ****.

 

[The_Librarian]

And there goes the f*** power.

Meh. Arse and bollocks.

 

[TheChamp]

And there goes the f*** power.

Meh. Arse and bollocks.

What happened to your backup?

 

[The_Librarian]

All good. Circuit breaker tripped

 

[Paul_S]

LPG is expensive. You'd need for the electricity price to double before it makes sense. The only solution is Eskom should fix their ****.

Or as the other poster mentioned just use blankets and warm clothing. That's what I do and my house is standard brick without insulated walls and an IBR roof. I occassionally use a gas heater in the bathroom for a few minutes while showering but even that is unnecessary and I didn't bother for years. One 9kg bottle lasts more than an entire winter. Our winters are so mild they're like Canadian summers. There should be no real need to use electricity for space heating unless one lives in an extremely cold area like Sutherland or Lesotho.

 

[isie]

LPG is expensive. You'd need for the electricity price to double before it makes sense. The only solution is Eskom should fix their ****.

We have to Face the fact that eskom never will fix their $h1t whatever the reason political interference, their own issues etc at the end of the day we can sit and do nothing And cry that they doing nothing And not have anything to use when inevitably Something happens, even if they were perfect we can still have the occasional outage.
We have to move at least a percentage of our needs off Electricity. Gas is the easiest to start off with.

As for price We use LPG for everyday cooking and a gas geyser for the kitchen and a 9kg tank lasts us just over 2 months.


Heating as others mentioned our winters are short you use more blankets, at insulation etc.
i have 2 gas heaters and between them i think i refill the tanks every 2 or 3 years , you don't use the heater continually switch it on for 10 or 15 minutes warm the room up and sit snugly in a blanket until temp drops then do it again.

 

[Lupus]

Or as the other poster mentioned just use blankets and warm clothing. That's what I do and my house is standard brick without insulated walls and an IBR roof. I occassionally use a gas heater in the bathroom for a few minutes while showering but even that is unnecessary and I didn't bother for years. One 9kg bottle lasts more than an entire winter. Our winters are so mild they're like Canadian summers. There should be no real need to use electricity for space heating unless one lives in an extremely cold area like Sutherland or Lesotho.

I've discovered a cheap fleece blanket under your duvet also does wonders. As it acts as another insulation layer.

 

[Swa]

We have to Face the fact that eskom never will fix their $h1t whatever the reason political interference, their own issues etc at the end of the day we can sit and do nothing And cry that they doing nothing And not have anything to use when inevitably Something happens, even if they were perfect we can still have the occasional outage.
We have to move at least a percentage of our needs off Electricity. Gas is the easiest to start off with.

As for price We use LPG for everyday cooking and a gas geyser for the kitchen and a 9kg tank lasts us just over 2 months.


Heating as others mentioned our winters are short you use more blankets, at insulation etc.
i have 2 gas heaters and between them i think i refill the tanks every 2 or 3 years , you don't use the heater continually switch it on for 10 or 15 minutes warm the room up and sit snugly in a blanket until temp drops then do it again.

I get that. My point was electric is ~R2/kWh while gas is R4-4.50/kWh. Or more with the increase in prices. What you do with a gas heater you might as well do with an electric and you still save more.

 

[isie]

I get that. My point was electric is ~R2/kWh while gas is R4-4.50/kWh. Or more with the increase in prices. What you do with a gas heater you might as well do with an electric and you still save more.

To point yes you are correct and i could do the Same with An electric heater as i do with gas at a lower cost but the pesky stepped tier pricing sneaks up on me, then I end up paying more for per kw everything else that I use not just the heaters.
So it's a bit of a calculation you will have to do to see if gas is a viable option for you in my case it is.

 

[Swa]

To point yes you are correct and i could do the Same with An electric heater as i do with gas at a lower cost but the pesky stepped tier pricing sneaks up on me, then I end up paying more for per kw everything else that I use not just the heaters.
So it's a bit of a calculation you will have to do to see if gas is a viable option for you in my case it is.

Oh yes. Forget some people pay R5+ for a portion of their electricity.

 

[Paul_S]

I get that. My point was electric is ~R2/kWh while gas is R4-4.50/kWh. Or more with the increase in prices. What you do with a gas heater you might as well do with an electric and you still save more.

I don't think your figures are correct.
Heating with LPG gas works out to around R2.10/kWh which is cheaper than electricity in many municipalities.

1kg LPG contains an equivalent of 13.6kWh of heating (49 MJ).
LPG costs around R28.50/kg for a 19kg refill (R543.99). I used my local Total garage which are not the cheapest option.
So R28.50/13.6kWh = R2.10/kWh

Tshwane currently charges it's residents R1.99/kWh incl. VAT for the first 100kWh so in that case electricity would work out marginally cheaper than LPG.
From 101kWh to 400kWh the charge is R2.29/kWh incl. VAT so LPG is already cheaper in this tariff block.

That doesn't take the 14.59% increase in electricity tarrifs which will be effective from the 1st July 2021 in which case LPG will be cheaper than electricity from the very first kWh (probably R2.29/kWh for 1 to 100kWh block).

Heating with electricity is only cheaper than LPG if you're an electricity thief, are supplied directly by Eskom (e.g. parts of Soweto) or your local municipality has very favourable electricity tariffs.

 

[isie]

I've discovered a cheap fleece blanket under your duvet also does wonders. As it acts as another insulation layer.

Make blanket sandwich, a blanket under you and on top of you

Oh yes. Forget some people pay R5+ for a portion of their electricity.

Your calculations for the per kw charges for gas are a lot higher than the actual gas costs.

1kg of gas gives about 13Kwh

Currently gas price is around R30 a kg ( actually it's less but let's give electricity a better chance ) that's comes out to about R2.30 per kwh.



Again this is my case if I'm <600 kwh then gas is more expensive ( R1.82 per kWh) but if i use over 600 kwh i end up paying R3.10 per kWh , so like i said in my case it works out cheaper as I'm paying R1.82 for everything besides most cooking and heating, which if i moved those over to Electricity i would end up paying the higher tariff for most of the month. So again for me paying a little more for those keeps my total low

Heating with electricity is only cheaper than LPG if you're an electricity thief, are supplied directly by Eskom (e.g. parts of Soweto) or your local municipality has very favourable electricity tariffs.

Rates mentioned above is one of the better ones you wil get from Eskom

 

[supersunbird]

Make blanket sandwich, a blanket under you and on top of you







Your calculations for the per kw charges for gas are a lot higher than the actual gas costs.

1kg of gas gives about 13Kwh

Currently gas price is around R30 a kg ( actually it's less but let's give electricity a better chance ) that's comes out to about R2.30 per kwh.



Again this is my case if I'm <600 kwh then gas is more expensive ( R1.82 per kWh) but if i use over 600 kwh i end up paying R3.10 per kWh , so like i said in my case it works out cheaper as I'm paying R1.82 for everything besides most cooking and heating, which if i moved those over to Electricity i would end up paying the higher tariff for most of the month. So again for me paying a little more for those keeps my total low


Rates mentioned above is one of the better ones you wil get from Eskom

And the gas works even when there is loadshedding or power failure or load reduction, so you don't sit in the cold during such periods.

 

[Swa]

I don't think your figures are correct.
Heating with LPG gas works out to around R2.10/kWh which is cheaper than electricity in many municipalities.

1kg LPG contains an equivalent of 13.6kWh of heating (49 MJ).
LPG costs around R28.50/kg for a 19kg refill (R543.99). I used my local Total garage which are not the cheapest option.
So R28.50/13.6kWh = R2.10/kWh

Tshwane currently charges it's residents R1.99/kWh incl. VAT for the first 100kWh so in that case electricity would work out marginally cheaper than LPG.
From 101kWh to 400kWh the charge is R2.29/kWh incl. VAT so LPG is already cheaper in this tariff block.

That doesn't take the 14.59% increase in electricity tarrifs which will be effective from the 1st July 2021 in which case LPG will be cheaper than electricity from the very first kWh (probably R2.29/kWh for 1 to 100kWh block).

Heating with electricity is only cheaper than LPG if you're an electricity thief, are supplied directly by Eskom (e.g. parts of Soweto) or your local municipality has very favourable electricity tariffs.

That's not how it is in the article I read where it worked out >R4/kWh. Might be wrong but from what I understand gas is inefficient when heating directly where electricity is the opposite. So cooking and heating water would be more efficient with gas but heating directly like a heater would be better with electricity.

 

[Paul_S]

That's not how it is in the article I read where it worked out >R4/kWh. Might be wrong but from what I understand gas is inefficient when heating directly where electricity is the opposite. So cooking and heating water would be more efficient with gas but heating directly like a heater would be better with electricity.

Would be interesting to see their reasoning. Space heating using gas should be extremely efficient since you're burning it to release energy and the resulting heat is released into the surounding air. That should be close to 100% efficiency.

Gas is however less efficient in certain areas like boiling a pot of water because a lot of heat escapes around the sides of the pot. An electric kettle is much more efficient in that scenario.

 

[isie]

That's not how it is in the article I read where it worked out >R4/kWh. Might be wrong but from what I understand gas is inefficient when heating directly where electricity is the opposite. So cooking and heating water would be more efficient with gas but heating directly like a heater would be better with electricity.

I think know which article(s) your refering , It compares boiling water in an electric kettle to gas and induction stove top kettles( not boiling water on an electric stove top), in that case Electric kettle wins it does one thing and it does it exceptionally well. If you take the same test on an electric stove Electricity comes last because of the power wasted to get to the required temperature.
If you only want to boil water in the kitchen then kettle is all you need.

 

[Swa]

Would be interesting to see their reasoning. Space heating using gas should be extremely efficient since you're burning it to release energy and the resulting heat is released into the surounding air. That should be close to 100% efficiency.

Gas is however less efficient in certain areas like boiling a pot of water because a lot of heat escapes around the sides of the pot. An electric kettle is much more efficient in that scenario.

I can't get to the original article but there seems to be a range of estimates, anywhere from R2-6/kWh. It seems it's easier to keep a room at a constant temperature than to heat it to a specific temperature. Gas heaters are quick to produce heat and thus for short periods of time but it seems a lot of energy is wasted when they are kept on. This could be due to gas producing not only heat but combustion as well, I don't know.

If you only use them for an hour a day a 9kg bottle will last you a month so is definitely the cheaper option. But if you're heating for 10 hours a day you'll go through 10 bottles in a month working out to over R2500. Electric heaters are more efficient there as they take time to heat up but then don't need to be on the whole time to produce heat once the required temperature is reached.

I think know which article(s) your refering , It compares boiling water in an electric kettle to gas and induction stove top kettles( not boiling water on an electric stove top), in that case Electric kettle wins it does one thing and it does it exceptionally well. If you take the same test on an electric stove Electricity comes last because of the power wasted to get to the required temperature.
If you only want to boil water in the kitchen then kettle is all you need.

I don't know the part about the kettle but yes, a stove is very inefficient as you're heating one object and then transferring to another. Gas would win for cooking as the heat transfer is direct.

But in 5 years this won't matter. Electricity will probably be over R4/kWh making gas win out with everything.

 

[The_Librarian]

Gas is however less efficient in certain areas like boiling a pot of water because a lot of heat escapes around the sides of the pot. An electric kettle is much more efficient in that scenario.

Yup, we figured that out as well. Element is in direct contact with water, better heat transfer.