F1 2022

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quovadis said:
The precedent has to match the circumstances too. I'm not sure if Spygate involving the isolated criminal actions of team members is comparable.
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but as you said, "The driver benefits from the car. The car and driver are not severable.", and both FA & LH were competing for the championship in that year, so they should also have been DSQ'd

In fact, a deliberate attempt to cheat should be more severely punished than an interpretation of HR/accounting rules.
 
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quovadis said:
Are you seriously arguing that a driver is greater than the sport? I don't see the comparison in terms of the controversy - if rules are broken there should be consequences where an advantage was arguably gained. This is not a scenario where the rules were not enforced as intended/written or reinterpreted incorrectly.
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I agree there should be consequences. I just don't agree with the consequences you're proposing.
 
The Darkness said:
RBR is a team, and Max having a superior car gave him the tools he needed to win. This he should be equally penalised.

I like the idea of them having double the amount they were over being deducted from next years cap. That will send a strong message. And of course for Max to hand over last years trophy to its rightful owner, Hamilton.
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I'm not even sure he'd want that title, that thing is tainted as fck whoever has it.
 
UrBaN963 said:
Say they strip Max of the title and it goes to Lewis. A title that is already controversial now becomes more so. Instead of it being the title that "Max didn't win"," Max was gifted" etc, it becomes the title that "Lewis only won because of the FIA", "Lewis won a year too late" etc etc etc.
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That entire event should be purged from the record books as, regardless of any RBR overspend as it was the FIA and not a Team that broke the rules.
Nether Driver should have been awarded the title for 2021 as there was no final race.
 
Naks said:
but as you said, "The driver benefits from the car. The car and driver are not severable.", and both FA & LH were competing for the championship in that year, so they should also have been DSQ'd
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One is a benefit conferred to an employee unbeknownst to the team and resultant benefit and the other is a team completely cognisant end-to-end. So not like-for-like in terms of the transgression. In retrospect yes though the drivers should've been penalised to some extent too.
 
caroper said:
That entire event should be purged from the record books as, regardless of any RBR overspend as it was the FIA and not a Team that broke the rules.
Nether Driver should have been awarded the title for 2021 as there was no final race.
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There's a ton of things they could have done, but given Lewis had a massive margin over Max at the time of the safety car, they should have used that as the final result. Or something. I don't know. It's all tainted now.
 
The Darkness said:
RBR is a team, and Max having a superior car gave him the tools he needed to win. This he should be equally penalised.

I like the idea of them having double the amount they were over being deducted from next years cap. That will send a strong message. And of course for Max to hand over last years trophy to its rightful owner, Hamilton.
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Which season was this, Max has never had the superior car.
 
Craig_ said:
I'm not even sure he'd want that title, that thing is tainted as fck whoever has it.
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As stated earlier there's an opportunity here to right the human error from last season with the penalty of RB's own doing and thus kinda returning the balance in terms of sport. It's slightly less tainted albeit tainted.
 
Naks said:
well, the creator will always think his car is the greatest.

but the stats show differently: Mercedes won the Constructor's, so...
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Drivers matter and Valtteri was arguably a bit more consistent than Checo. Checo also got retired that final race using up his fuel to be the minister of defense ;)
 
Let's just use a bit of logic. The marginal overspend would not have given RB any benefit for the 2021 season. That million or two overspend probably occurred the last race or two and it was obvious that Max could not keep up with the Merc's so no advantage.
If the overspend was proven to be development related, then any advantage would be for the 2022 season and even possibly 2023. The problem is RB is so far ahead in the 2022 championship, point deductions for drivers and constructors would have to be massive to have any affect. And that would set a huge standard for future overspend by any teams.

If drive to survive decide on the penalty. Just enough points would be deducted from RB and its drivers that Max and Leclerc would be about equal point before the last few races.
 
Max's first championship appears to have mirrored that of Michael Schumacher's.

First championship won under a cloud of controversy at the final round and allegations that his team was up to funny business in winning that championship.
 
caroper said:
If the over spend was Adrian Newey then the FIA have shown that the overspend was performance-related.......

I am also hearing similar talk that Helmut Marko's multi Million Salary was also not declared.

FIA need to put the facts into the open, non of this is helping F1 but it is making the FIA look incompetent.
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There seems to be some clarity emerging from the fog. RB have included Newey's salary as one of their top three (and hence not subject to the cap), but FIA says because he's a contractor it can't be excluded.
 
Speedster said:
There seems to be some clarity emerging from the fog. RB have included Newey's salary as one of their top three (and hence not subject to the cap), but FIA says because he's a contractor it can't be excluded.
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Then the FIA are an even bigger bunch of idiots, why the hell would you go public with this before discussing it with RB...

FIA: Dear Mr Horner, we notice a Mr Newey on your salary exclusion list, please explain?
RB: To whom it may concern, well you've seen how much we ****ing pay him.
FIA: But is he not a contractor and therefore can't be included in the salary exceptions?
RB: Wait, what?

insert rest of conversation here
 
ScottulusMaximus said:
Then the FIA are an even bigger bunch of idiots, why the hell would you go public with this before discussing it with RB...
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Probably because deadlines existed and I’m sure they’re only figuring out now how fudged the numbers are after figuring out catering is a pretty lame excuse.
 
Speedster said:
There seems to be some clarity emerging from the fog. RB have included Newey's salary as one of their top three (and hence not subject to the cap), but FIA says because he's a contractor it can't be excluded.
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Its a bit more involved than that. More like he has a company of his own which he use to charge RB.
So how many employees are in this company.
Didnt read more into it but sounds like there some things that do need to be sorted out.
 
Tinuva said:
Its a bit more involved than that. More like he has a company of his own which he use to charge RB.
So how many employees are in this company.
Didnt read more into it but sounds like there some things that do need to be sorted out.
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With his salary reportedly at $10m and the cost overrun under $2m I doubt that extra employees are the issue. But I guess time will tell (at least I hope it will).
 
Speedster said:
With his salary reportedly at $10m and the cost overrun under $2m I doubt that extra employees are the issue. But I guess time will tell (at least I hope it will).
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It’s all speculation but if he’s excluded from the top 3 and they don’t have another $10m employee at #4 they might no longer be considered a minor breach.
 
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