F1 2023

[Icemanbrfc]

Have a beautiful week my fellow F1 fans. This thread should only be for race winners

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

Racing begins before F1. He's been top 3 GP3 and F2. He was runner up to Leclerc in F2.

Ok so De Vries and Mick Schumacher won F2, so they also above average drivers?
Albon got 3rd in F2. Latifi got 2nd and Tsunoda got 3rd.
So Mick, Yuki, Latifi and De Vries is above average F1 drivers?

 

[CPTBoy]

Williams should snap up Lawson to replace Sargeant if Danny does indeed stay with Alpha next year.

 

[quovadis]

Ok so De Vries and Mick Schumacher won F2, so they also above average drivers?
Albon got 3rd in F2. Latifi got 2nd and Tsunoda got 3rd.
So Mick, Yuki, Latifi and De Vries is above average F1 drivers?

You have to consider the talent in the pool at the time. Albon came 3rd to Russell & Norris and beat De Vries in 4th. All 3 graduated to F1 and then De Vries became champ. Mick's class for F2 2020 was Tsunoda, Zhou, heck Mazepin came 5th.

Only one standout in the list you provided and that's still Albon.

 

[quovadis]

Williams should snap up Lawson to replace Sargeant if Danny does indeed stay with Alpha next year.

I don't think he'll leave the RB stable without being properly rejected.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

You have to consider the talent in the pool at the time. Albon came 3rd to Russell & Norris and beat De Vries in 4th. All 3 graduated to F1 and then De Vries became champ. Mick's class for F2 2020 was Tsunoda, Zhou, heck Mazepin came 5th.

Only one standout in the list you provided and that's still Albon.

Yes and the year before his 3rd place. Albon was 10th. Leclerc 1st, Latifi 5th and De Vries 7th.
He has been in F2 and F1 for 7 years and have very little accolades to show for it except beating his teammates Latifi and Sargeant(rookie).
Like I said, I believe Williams needs a good driver so we can see if they really that bad.

 

[quovadis]

Yes and the year before his 3rd place. Albon was 10th. Leclerc 1st, Latifi 5th and De Vries 7th.
He has been in F2 and F1 for 7 years and have very little accolades to show for it except beating his teammates Latifi and Sargeant(rookie).
Like I said, I believe Williams needs a good driver so we can see if they really that bad.

Albon was driving injured after a broken collar bone for 2/3rds of that season.

 

[CPTBoy]

I don't think he'll leave the RB stable without being properly rejected.

Fair point, but I suppose it might turn out to be Piastri situation where he might be waiting and waiting and never get a drive.

 

[quovadis]

Fair point, but I suppose it might turn out to be Piastri situation where he might be waiting and waiting and never get a drive.

I'd hope not - he's next in line but will have to go elsewhere if he doesn't have a seat for 2025 at the latest.

 

[CPTBoy]

I'd hope not - he's next in line but will have to go elsewhere if he doesn't have a seat for 2025 at the latest.

Yeah me too, he's seems like the real deal and he needs a drive.

 

[caroper]

Have a beautiful week my fellow F1 fans. This thread should only be for race winners

We will miss you..

 

[Harold_Crick]

So I always wonder if the Williams car is not maybe faster than we think and they just need better drivers.
Albon seems to get a lot of praise in the light that people think the Williams is one of the slowest cars.
But how good is Albon? He failed at Red Bull. He also looked good against Latifi, that means nothing.
De Vries came in for one race at Williams and scored points. He then got a seat at another team and we all know how that turned out.
So is the Williams maybe not that slow, do they need a great driver?

Williams is no longer the sh*tbox it was. It is especially good on fast circuits. Lacking a bit in downforce, which has been their problem for years now, but slick in a straight line. It is very easily capable of running in the upper midfield as Albon has already proven a few times this season. He had top-5 speed at Zandvoort not too long ago and gave Merc and McLaren hell at Monza.

Albon is a good driver who was not ready/up to the task of being in the toxic Red Bull environment. The Red Bull junior program is littered with bloody corpses. Both Kvyat and Gasly failed to survive the 2nd Red Bull seat. Helmut Marko has very little patience for drivers.

If you look at the amount drivers they have brought in to F1, only five (Max, Danny Ric, Sainz, Gasly and Albon) have established themselves and only Max and Danny Ric managed to establish themselves within the team. Christian Klien, Scott Speed, Vitantonio Liuzzi, Jean-Eric Vergne, Sebastien Buemi, Sebastien Bourdais, Jaime Alguersuari, Brendon Hartley, Alex Albon, Pierre Gasly and Daniil Kvyat all came in and were sent packing, with only Kvyat & Gasly receiving second chances with demotions back to Toro Rosso. Tsunoda seems to be hanging on for now.

EDIT: Red Bull have given a lot of young drivers a chance, but they are ruthless.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

Williams is no longer the sh*tbox it was. It is especially good on fast circuits. Lacking a bit in downforce, which has been their problem for years now, but slick in a straight line. It is very easily capable of running in the upper midfield as Albon has already proven a few times this season. He had top-5 speed at Zandvoort not too long ago and gave Merc and McLaren hell at Monza.

Albon is a good driver who was not ready/up to the task of being in the toxic Red Bull environment. The Red Bull junior program is littered with bloody corpses. Both Kvyat and Gasly failed to survive the 2nd Red Bull seat. Helmut Marko has very little patience for drivers.

If you look at the amount drivers they have brought in to F1, only five (Max, Danny Ric, Sainz, Gasly and Albon) have established themselves and only Max and Danny Ric managed to establish themselves within the team. Christian Klien, Scott Speed, Vitantonio Liuzzi, Jean-Eric Vergne, Sebastien Buemi, Sebastien Bourdais, Jaime Alguersuari, Brendon Hartley, Alex Albon, Pierre Gasly and Daniil Kvyat all came in and were sent packing, with only Kvyat & Gasly receiving second chances with demotions back to Toro Rosso. Tsunoda seems to be hanging on for now.

I am still waiting for proof that Albon is a good driver.
Discussing RB environment has nothing to do with Albon's abilities. A good driver like Max proved himself easily, even with all his crashes at the beginning.

 

[Shi]

Yeah me too, he's seems like the real deal and he needs a drive.

He does look like the real deal. I think he will get his chance (next year or 2025) as RB doesn't rate Yuki or Checo, so there should be place for him (in AT for now at least). A year there, and then move to the RB the year after.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

He does look like the real deal. I think he will get his chance (next year or 2025) as RB doesn't rate Yuki or Checo, so there should be place for him (in AT for now at least). A year there, and then move to the RB the year after.

If he gets a chance, he'll have a few races before being tossed aside and having his career destroyed by Marko.

The second RB seat is a poisoned chalice as long as Max is still there, because nobody is going to come in and be given a chance to get to grips with the car. They'll be expected to compete with Max immediately.

The only reason Checo is still there is because he's second in the drivers. And even then the racist old fart wants him gone, but would (presumably) be fine with the mediocre Ricciardo coming back...

 

[Maurice Kitching]

Williams is no longer the sh*tbox it was. It is especially good on fast circuits. Lacking a bit in downforce, which has been their problem for years now, but slick in a straight line. It is very easily capable of running in the upper midfield as Albon has already proven a few times this season. He had top-5 speed at Zandvoort not too long ago and gave Merc and McLaren hell at Monza.

Albon is a good driver who was not ready/up to the task of being in the toxic Red Bull environment. The Red Bull junior program is littered with bloody corpses. Both Kvyat and Gasly failed to survive the 2nd Red Bull seat. Helmut Marko has very little patience for drivers.

If you look at the amount drivers they have brought in to F1, only five (Max, Danny Ric, Sainz, Gasly and Albon) have established themselves and only Max and Danny Ric managed to establish themselves within the team. Christian Klien, Scott Speed, Vitantonio Liuzzi, Jean-Eric Vergne, Sebastien Buemi, Sebastien Bourdais, Jaime Alguersuari, Brendon Hartley, Alex Albon, Pierre Gasly and Daniil Kvyat all came in and were sent packing, with only Kvyat & Gasly receiving second chances with demotions back to Toro Rosso. Tsunoda seems to be hanging on for now.

EDIT: Red Bull have given a lot of young drivers a chance, but they are ruthless.

Williams is no longer the sh*tbox it was. It is especially good on fast circuits. Lacking a bit in downforce, which has been their problem for years now, but slick in a straight line. It is very easily capable of running in the upper midfield as Albon has already proven a few times this season. He had top-5 speed at Zandvoort not too long ago and gave Merc and McLaren hell at Monza.

Albon is a good driver who was not ready/up to the task of being in the toxic Red Bull environment. The Red Bull junior program is littered with bloody corpses. Both Kvyat and Gasly failed to survive the 2nd Red Bull seat. Helmut Marko has very little patience for drivers.

If you look at the amount drivers they have brought in to F1, only five (Max, Danny Ric, Sainz, Gasly and Albon) have established themselves and only Max and Danny Ric managed to establish themselves within the team. Christian Klien, Scott Speed, Vitantonio Liuzzi, Jean-Eric Vergne, Sebastien Buemi, Sebastien Bourdais, Jaime Alguersuari, Brendon Hartley, Alex Albon, Pierre Gasly and Daniil Kvyat all came in and were sent packing, with only Kvyat & Gasly receiving second chances with demotions back to Toro Rosso. Tsunoda seems to be hanging on for now.

EDIT: Red Bull have given a lot of young drivers a chance, but they are ruthless.

Where does Seb factor in this? I understand Checo was not a RB junior, but surely Seb had gone through the wringer.

 

[Obieone]

I am still waiting for proof that Albon is a good driver.
Discussing RB environment has nothing to do with Albon's abilities. A good driver like Max proved himself easily, even with all his crashes at the beginning.

The only way you will get proof is if he comes up against a known quantity, until then it's just speculation. Personally I'd like to see how he compares to a Bottas, Perez, even Ocon or Gasly.

 

[Harold_Crick]

Where does Seb factor in this? I understand Checo was not a RB junior, but surely Seb had gone through the wringer.

I suppose you could include him, although he was a BMW junior driver and debuted for them, but they couldn't accommodate him in F1, so they released him and Red Bull snapped him up.

Kind of like a Nyck de Vries adoption situation, but just extremely successful.

 

[Harold_Crick]

I am still waiting for proof that Albon is a good driver.

Have you been watching F1 this season? He is single-handedly carrying Williams and is frequently racing in the upper midfield. His average race finish is also better than his average start, so he makes up places during the race. There is a reason why the paddock is high on him at the moment. He was ahead of Perez in Singapore before Perez decided to ram him out of the way, so more points were on offer.

Discussing RB environment has nothing to do with Albon's abilities. A good driver like Max proved himself easily, even with all his crashes at the beginning.

Discussing the RB environment is 100% relevant. It is a wasteland of young drivers that are thrust in and then discarded. It is open knowledge as to how demanding and ruthless Helmut Marko is. The fact that you need to point out a once-in-a-generation driver and one of the future GOATs as the outlier that has survived this environment kind of illustrates this.

 

[Shi]

If he gets a chance, he'll have a few races before being tossed aside and having his career destroyed by Marko.

The second RB seat is a poisoned chalice as long as Max is still there, because nobody is going to come in and be given a chance to get to grips with the car. They'll be expected to compete with Max immediately.

The only reason Checo is still there is because he's second in the drivers. And even then the racist old fart wants him gone, but would (presumably) be fine with the mediocre Ricciardo coming back...

I for one would like to see Ricciardo in the 2nd RB seat for a year, but only for the reason to see how he performs against Max. Most people are thinking that he can possibly replicate his form when he was there. They are not including the fact that Max is a better driver now than he was back when Ricciardo was there. Could Ricciardo really do better than Checo?