F1 2024

[Baxteen]

5 fatalities since 2000, 2 involving classic F3 cars (driven by amateurs) and a motorcyclist.

The bulk of Spa's deaths occurred when it truly was a deadly track in its original form and wound its way through public roads, lined by poles and houses.

So as I said, no need to be dramatic and the corner that spooks everyone (Raidillon - top of the hill) has undergone extensive changes to its runoff to improve safety.

again, I love racing at Spa.
and I love Raidillon, in the dry its amazing.

but the moment the rain falls, and it always does its Belgium, the car that makes the mistake is not the one that gets killed, the car behind is the one that gets really badly damaged.

and yes they have improved the corner and all those things. but the point remains its a blind corner, taken flat out up a hll. so car 1 looses it because they took too much curb. hits the wall on the left, and ends up on the track, car 2 comes up there are no flags yet and then boom Tbone right into car 1. driver 2 dead, driver 1 never walks again.

spa in the wet is a death trap, and while I love it in the dry, and it gives us amazing racing, in the wet it is not safe

 

[Agent_Smith]

Esteban Ocon confirmed at Rabbit Haas alongside Ollie Bearman

Haas confirm signing of Ocon on multi-year contract

Haas have signed Alpine’s Esteban Ocon on a multi-year contract to partner rookie Ollie Bearman in 2025.

www.formula1.com

 

[Dave]

He did say the last 5 years. More people died at Silverstone and Monza if we're looking at total numbers...

I would presume that them being circuits since the very beginning of F1 might factor into that?

 

[nulkoel]

Esteban Ocon confirmed at Rabbit Haas alongside Ollie Bearman

Haas confirm signing of Ocon on multi-year contract

Haas have signed Alpine’s Esteban Ocon on a multi-year contract to partner rookie Ollie Bearman in 2025.

www.formula1.com

Poor Ollie.

 

[Hamster]

We've had this "Spa is too dangerous" discussion before.

how many people have died in Spa in the past 10 years?

how many formula 2 drivers?

how many F2 Drivers have died in total in the past 10 years?

now if F2 is just one step below F1 what does that tell you?

how many people have died in Spa in the past 10 years?

Two?

how many formula 2 drivers?

1

how many F2 Drivers have died in total in the past 10 years?

1

now if F2 is just one step below F1 what does that tell you?

You don't care about F3, MotoGP or endurance racing fatalities.

 

[thestaggy]

again, I love racing at Spa.
and I love Raidillon, in the dry its amazing.

but the moment the rain falls, and it always does its Belgium, the car that makes the mistake is not the one that gets killed, the car behind is the one that gets really badly damaged.

and yes they have improved the corner and all those things. but the point remains its a blind corner, taken flat out up a hll. so car 1 looses it because they took too much curb. hits the wall on the left, and ends up on the track, car 2 comes up there are no flags yet and then boom Tbone right into car 1. driver 2 dead, driver 1 never walks again.

spa in the wet is a death trap, and while I love it in the dry, and it gives us amazing racing, in the wet it is not safe

This is exactly what they have addressed at the corner by pushing the barrier further back on the left.

Hubert was killed because the car that crashed on the left came back across the track where he clipped it and got flung against the barrier on the right where he was then t-boned. With the barrier on the left further back, cars will not come back on to the track like they used to.

The other factor here is Correa (who t-boned Hubert) hit debris, affecting his ability to steer his car, so he was unable to avoid the fatal crash.

As for the rain-dry debate, Hubert was killed on a bone-dry track.

 

[Baxteen]

We've had this "Spa is too dangerous" discussion before.

yes and I have said before and I will again.

in the past 10 years how many were there anywhere else?

again, I love Spa in the dry. but in the wet its not a good track. and I love when weather plays a part to make an interesting race.

but Spa is not the same.

 

[Baxteen]

This is exactly what they have addressed at the corner by pushing the barrier further back on the left.

Hubert was killed because the car that crashed on the left came back across the track where he clipped it and got flung against the barrier on the right where he was then t-boned. With the barrier on the left further back, cars will not come back on to the track like they used to.

The other factor here is Correa (who t-boned Hubert) hit debris, affecting his ability to steer his car, so he was unable to avoid the fatal crash.

As for the rain-dry debate, Hubert was killed on a bone-dry track.

so the exact situation cant happen again in F2, but in F1 with more mass and more speed that exact situation can happen again despite the barrier being moved. look at how Leclerc traveled with his crash last weekend and that car didn't even look that bad.

now imagine Sargant binning it flying back onto the track and Verstappen coming to lap him hitting debris from the first impact and having a repeat of the Hubert crash.


again, Spa in the dry is amazing.
Spa in the wet is dangerous.

 

[thestaggy]

so the exact situation cant happen again in F2, but in F1 with more mass and more speed that exact situation can happen again despite the barrier being moved. look at how Leclerc traveled with his crash last weekend and that car didn't even look that bad.

now imagine Sargant binning it flying back onto the track and Verstappen coming to lap him hitting debris from the first impact and having a repeat of the Hubert crash.


again, Spa in the dry is amazing.
Spa in the wet is dangerous.

Look, if you want to find danger you will find it at just about any track on the calendar.

 

[NR7]

All those safety changes are an excellent step in the right direction but a guy died there last year again (Dilano van't Hoff).

That accident highlighted more needs :

- More visibility in the rain, it's not just F1 but F2 and F3 as well. Pirelli needs to improve their wet weather tyres or get Michelin who can.
I also remember the FIA looking into wheel covers, they must try harder.
Also more super bright lights on the cars particularly when it's in a T-bone position, like a system where if the steering wheel is turned a full rotation to either side it triggers a giant LED strip on the side of the car or something.

- Improved race direction.
Seems to be a big problem in the Formula categories, maybe we should look at how WEC implement Go Slow zones as they race in properly treacherous rainy night racing at a deadly LeMans track and their only fatality in 27 years was because there was no tyre fence in front of armco attached to a immovable tree directly behind it.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

so the exact situation cant happen again in F2, but in F1 with more mass and more speed that exact situation can happen again despite the barrier being moved. look at how Leclerc traveled with his crash last weekend and that car didn't even look that bad.

now imagine Sargant binning it flying back onto the track and Verstappen coming to lap him hitting debris from the first impact and having a repeat of the Hubert crash.


again, Spa in the dry is amazing.
Spa in the wet is dangerous.

When was the last F1 death at Spa? You can look for tragedy pretty much everywhere if you want to...

 

[Decarin]

These drivers are very familiar with Spa. Not only have they raced there a ton in the junior divisions but some have driven there for fun too. I'm pretty sure they'd be quite proficient in the wet if it comes to that.

 

[Hamster]

If the drivers and teams had any concerns regarding safety they'd voice their opinion and even boycott the track like they did in the USA wrt to tyres.

Clearly they're not worried and nobody is complaining about except some fans on social media,

EDIT: US 2005

 

[Baxteen]

valid point regarding USA 2005.


the dirvers have raised safety concerns and been ignored (Las Vegas FP1)
yes the issues were fixed so maybe the drivers are happy with the changes, they have much more complex simulations to look at to see what kind of situation will cause a crash, never mind a fatal crash.

Spa just has a bad feeling for me every year. between the Death of Hubert in 2019 and the farse that was a point scoring race of 2021 freaking half points, WTAF, Russel in 3rd in a williams....

no issue with rewards for good driving in the wet during quali. russel deserved that P3 start in the race just like Kmag deserved his pole in Brazil, but Kmag did not win, Russel got a 3rd place finish there and he drove behind the safety car....

is that no result because of FIA being overly cautous due to the Hubert accident? for sure.... was it the right call? yes. was points deserved? not for any driver that sunday.

 

[Agent_Smith]

A sign that Kimi Antonelli is now almost odds on favourite to take Lewis Hamilton's place at Mercedes next year?

Kimi Antonelli to test Mercedes F1 car again after Belgian GP

Crash.net has learned that Kimi Antonelli will get another chance to impress Mercedes in an F1 car next week.

www.crash.net

 

[Decarin]

A sign that Kimi Antonelli is now almost odds on favourite to take Lewis Hamilton's place at Mercedes next year?

Kimi Antonelli to test Mercedes F1 car again after Belgian GP

Crash.net has learned that Kimi Antonelli will get another chance to impress Mercedes in an F1 car next week.

www.crash.net

He did just win an F2 feature race as the youngest kid on the grid, so its not too surprising that Mr Wolff wants him in the car ASAP

 

[thestaggy]

All those safety changes are an excellent step in the right direction but a guy died there last year again (Dilano van't Hoff).

That accident highlighted more needs :

- More visibility in the rain, it's not just F1 but F2 and F3 as well. Pirelli needs to improve their wet weather tyres or get Michelin who can.
I also remember the FIA looking into wheel covers, they must try harder.

Ironically, more efficient rain/wet weather tyres are a part of the visibility problem. They clear too much standing water, resulting in greater spray.

Also more super bright lights on the cars particularly when it's in a T-bone position, like a system where if the steering wheel is turned a full rotation to either side it triggers a giant LED strip on the side of the car or something.

Hubert was killed in the dry.

The car that t-boned Hubert couldn't steer. It struck debris which lodged itself under one of the front wheels, leaving Correa (the driver) unable to avoid Hubert.

You could have all the warnings and lights you wanted in that situation. It would have changed nothing.

The only thing that could have helped has already been done; pushing the left barrier back to avoid the scenario that triggered the whole thing; a car coming back on to the track.

- Improved race direction.
Seems to be a big problem in the Formula categories, maybe we should look at how WEC implement Go Slow zones as they race in properly treacherous rainy night racing at a deadly LeMans track and their only fatality in 27 years was because there was no tyre fence in front of armco attached to a immovable tree directly behind it.

May as well red flag the race if rain is deemed too dangerous. Nobody wants to watch a procession at reduced speeds where drivers cannot overtake.

 

[NR7]

Hubert was killed in the dry.

The car that t-boned Hubert couldn't steer. It struck debris which lodged itself under one of the front wheels, leaving Correa (the driver) unable to avoid Hubert.

You could have all the warnings and lights you wanted in that situation. It would have changed nothing..

I'm talking about the guy that got killed in F3 last year in the rain but everybody only remembers Hubert.

Points back to my point on visibility.

May as well red flag the race if rain is deemed too dangerous. Nobody wants to watch a procession at reduced speeds where drivers cannot overtake.

The Go-slow zone isn't a procession, it's like a VSC but for a defined area of the track. So if it's too wet to safely take Eau Rouge etc, you can enable that area as a go slow zone and still have the cars race around the rest of the track.

 

[Craig_]

I'm talking about the guy that got killed in F3 last year in the rain but everybody only remembers Hubert.

Points back to my point on visibility.



The Go-slow zone isn't a procession, it's like a VSC but for a defined area of the track. So if it's too wet to safely take Eau Rouge etc, you can enable that area as a go slow zone and still have the cars race around the rest of the track.

That's one hell of a smash.

 

[Dave]

Yuki Tsunoda’s big Horner and Marko contact admission in claim for Red Bull seat

Yuki Tsunoda has revealed he has had no contact with Christian Horner and Helmut Marko over replacing Sergio Perez at Red Bull in F1 2024.

www.planetf1.com

Yuki Tsunoda has revealed that he has had no conversations with Helmut Marko and Red Bull team principal Christian Horner over recent weeks as a decision looms on the future of Sergio Perez.

And he has claimed that only Max Verstappen, the reigning three-time World Champion, is kept abreast of Red Bull‘s driver plans.

Despite signing a new two-year contract as recently as last month, Perez is increasingly likely to be dropped by Red Bull during the summer break due to a performance clause contained in his revised deal.

PlanetF1.com understands that Red Bull have the freedom to discard the Mexican driver if he is in excess of 100 points behind Verstappen at the time of the August shutdown, with the gap standing at 141 ahead of this weekend’s Belgian Grand Prix.