F1 2024

[UrBaN963]

Fastest lap point to be scrapped in 2025

The FIA’s World Motor Sport Council convened for a meeting on Thursday, with minor changes to the existing Sporting and Technical regulations being approved, as well as a restructuring of the 2026 ruleset.

www.formula1.com

Agree with the scrapping of fastest lap

Really?

I like it, I think it's a cool thing to force people to push. I would only change that it can't be gotten by anyone outside the points, so only the top 10 could get the bonus.

 

[thestaggy]

Really?

I like it, I think it's a cool thing to force people to push. I would only change that it can't be gotten by anyone outside the points, so only the top 10 could get the bonus.

If you extended it to 20th place, you'll have a bunch of cars toward the back pitting in the last 2-3 laps and then going all out for quali runs to try and get that point. Great chance of late race incidents (safety cars, red flags) if you have a bunch of cars pitting together and then going for it.

EDIT: Cars that will have no chance of finishing in the top-10 would also back off if they know they can aim for fastest lap point, so there would be no reason for them to even race one another. Why risk overtaking someone for 14th when you can just potter around and then gun it for one point at the death.

EDIT 2: I'd actually like to see F1 extend points to 12th. There is often some close racing in and just outside the last points-paying positions, so this could add a bit more spice. Plus the cars are so much more reliable these days.

 

[quovadis]

Really?

I like it, I think it's a cool thing to force people to push. I would only change that it can't be gotten by anyone outside the points, so only the top 10 could get the bonus.

It's already only a point if you get the fastest lap and in the top 10? or you want that part changed?

 

[UrBaN963]

It's already only a point if you get the fastest lap and in the top 10? or you want that part changed?

I would prefer it if it only counted the fastest lap out of the top 10 finishers. So you don't get Bottas in 23rd taking fastest lap off someone in the top 10.

So if Stroll got it in 22nd, his fastest lap wouldn't be counted and the next fastest out of the top 10 gets counted instead.

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

Ah British mafia at it again. We have had flexi front and rear wings the whole season for everyone to see, yet no action is taken. But if RB might be planning something, immediate action.

 

[quovadis]

I would prefer it if it only counted the fastest lap out of the top 10 finishers. So you don't get Bottas in 23rd taking fastest lap off someone in the top 10.

So if Stroll got it in 22nd, his fastest lap wouldn't be counted and the next fastest out of the top 10 gets counted instead.

So the fastest lap out of the top 10 finishers. I'd prefer it scrapped alltogether and just award points to the top 15 finishers - something like this:

Place	Points
1st	21
2nd	17
3rd	14
4th	12
5th	11
6th	10
7th	9
8th	8
9th	7
10th	6
11th	5
12th	4
13th	3
14th	2
15th	1

 

[UrBaN963]

So the fastest lap out of the top 10 finishers. I'd prefer it scrapped alltogether and just award points to the top 15 finishers - something like this:

Place	Points
1st	21
2nd	17
3rd	14
4th	12
5th	11
6th	10
7th	9
8th	8
9th	7
10th	6
11th	5
12th	4
13th	3
14th	2
15th	1

Totally agree, that would be better.

 

[quovadis]

Totally agree, that would be better.

Especially since the middle to slowest teams really only differentiate themselves greatly with luck rather than competing down the field with each other.

 

[UrBaN963]

Ah British mafia at it again. We have had flexi front and rear wings the whole season for everyone to see, yet no action is taken. But if RB might be planning something, immediate action.

I mean, to be fair, they're not planning anything. Well technically they are I guess, they're planning how to remove their device they've had on the car.

But they already did the thing. It's okay, doesn't seem to be a biggie and it hasn't seemed to help performance much. Unless their current pace is only because of that thing, in which case they appear to be in big trouble.

But they're bringing upgrades this week so hopefully they'll be properly competitive again.

 

[Baxteen]

So the fastest lap out of the top 10 finishers. I'd prefer it scrapped alltogether and just award points to the top 15 finishers - something like this:

Place	Points
1st	21
2nd	17
3rd	14
4th	12
5th	11
6th	10
7th	9
8th	8
9th	7
10th	6
11th	5
12th	4
13th	3
14th	2
15th	1

I can back the concept of points down to the same number of places as there are teams.
so if there are 12 teams points to 12th.

1 point for the final position equal to number of teams. and 25 poitns for a win rather than 21 like in your model. you want a bigger points reward for podium finish so maybe something like 25, 18, 14 and then 4th gets the same amount of points as there are teams on the grid. so at the moment 4th would get 10

sprint race points awarded in a similar structure but for the number of teams minus 2.

and then 2 points for a pole position
1 point for a sprint pole.
no points for fastest lap.

 

[MuterOfWorlds]

Why there’s no transparency about whose complaining and whose being complained about is a mystery to me.

FIA have been more focused on public image than anything else since the Spygate and Crashgate saga's.

Cheating is now regularly dealt with quietly, behind close doors, with cleaned up statements by FIA being 'we have no confirming evidence of anyone using this' in various forms over the years now, going back a decade now for various examples, one of the biggest being that 'engine' of Ferrari.

Seems, this time around though, teams themselves have concrete evidence of the device existing, and Redbull have come out admitting to it, trying to get ahead of the drama, after all the PR damage they've already suffered this year thanks to Horner and more.

They are claiming though, it doesn't help them.

TL/DR version:
FIA said "no evidence anybody has the device"
Redbull then admit its them, opposing teams seem to have too much evidence to try play innocent.
The FIA are doing a smashing job proving themselves and Liberty Media untrustworthy in their statements quite regularly and its a genuine cause for concern, regardless of which driver or team anybody supports.

 

[quovadis]

I can back the concept of points down to the same number of places as there are teams.
so if there are 12 teams points to 12th.

1 point for the final position equal to number of teams. and 25 poitns for a win rather than 21 like in your model. you want a bigger points reward for podium finish so maybe something like 25, 18, 14 and then 4th gets the same amount of points as there are teams on the grid. so at the moment 4th would get 10

sprint race points awarded in a similar structure but for the number of teams minus 2.

and then 2 points for a pole position
1 point for a sprint pole.
no points for fastest lap.

I think smaller differences and a little bit extra for the top 3 means better competition. I had based the idea on 3 podium positions, plus number of teams but it still leaves a lot to be desired for mid-low teams.

My structure still provides enough of a reward for podium wins and incentivises the rest of the field to duke it out providing a more honest picture of teams performance outside the top 3 teams.

Sprint races should just be 1/3 points for 1/3 of the distance imho.

I'd scrap points for pole as well if it were up to me. Heck, I'd even make the winning constructor for a race the sum or average of both drivers points for the race result (although I get a win is a win but it's interesting...)

 

[Naks]

Explained: Why Red Bull’s adjustable bib isn’t being punished by the FIA: https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-rb20-bib-adjustment-device-no-punishment-explained

"...
How does Red Bull’s bib height adjustment system work?

Details of how the bib height adjustment system on the RB20 operates have been reported by Australian publication Speedcafe, which reveals the adjustment is, technically, in the cockpit of the car.

The adjustment screw is within the footwell and cannot be accessed with the driver in place – the mechanism is located under the heel support. To access it, Red Bull’s mechanics would have to remove the nose cone, a separate panel, and the carbon section within the footwell.

This would be particularly difficult to do under parc fermé conditions without attracting the attention of the FIA, nor is it work that can be carried out surreptitiously – it’s a proper dismantling of the car required to get to the adjustment mechanism. ...

Why Red Bull hasn’t been, and isn’t likely to be, punished
... the height adjustment mechanism in itself isn’t illegal to have – and Red Bull didn’t attempt to hide the possibility of its presence, as evidenced by the documents uploaded to the FIA servers.

Why would Red Bull have such a system, one may reasonably ask? The practical use of it would be for height adjustments throughout the weekend when it’s legal to make such setup changes.

According to the statement from Red Bull, the height adjustment device is completely inaccessible when the car is fully assembled and “ready to run”.

Aside from theoretically small windows of time while carrying out any of the above permitted parc fermé changes, Red Bull’s mechanics would thus be unable to access the adjustment and, even if possible, would risk being spotted by the FIA’s technical babysitters or the garage cameras which are stationed above each car for overnight monitoring.

The Red Bull RB20 may be fitted with a device that allows, in theory, for illegal changes to be made, but there’s no evidence of its use at the times when it is illegal to use.

With Red Bull not attempting to hide its existence via documentation, and the ease with which the team would be caught if it did try to make a quick change while in parc fermé, it falls into the lap of the FIA to clarify whether or not further action is required and, on this occasion, logic would suggest Red Bull should be given the benefit of the doubt.

Certainly, championship leader Max Verstappen was nonplussed about the extent of the furore as he spoke to media, including PlanetF1.com, on Thursday.

“For us, it was just an easy tool. When the parts were off, it was easy to adjust,” he said. “But once the whole car is built together, you can’t touch it. So, for us, it doesn’t change (anything). When I read it, I was thinking about other teams doing it. And then I found out it was related to our team. We never even mentioned it in the briefings, it was just an easier tool to adjust stuff.”

With no breach of the technical regulations, no evidence of breach of the sporting regulations, and a team that has not attempted to disguise the existence of such a system – the cries of “cheating” are simply overblown, just like earlier in the year when the theory of an asymmetrical braking system on the RB20 was hypothesised without evidence.

Certainly, while rival teams flagged up the possibility of this system existing with the FIA, there has been no indication from the governing body – yet again – that any wrongdoing has taken place."

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

FIA have been more focused on public image than anything else since the Spygate and Crashgate saga's.

Cheating is now regularly dealt with quietly, behind close doors, with cleaned up statements by FIA being 'we have no confirming evidence of anyone using this' in various forms over the years now, going back a decade now for various examples, one of the biggest being that 'engine' of Ferrari.

Seems, this time around though, teams themselves have concrete evidence of the device existing, and Redbull have come out admitting to it, trying to get ahead of the drama, after all the PR damage they've already suffered this year thanks to Horner and more.

They are claiming though, it doesn't help them.

TL/DR version:
FIA said "no evidence anybody has the device"
Redbull then admit its them, opposing teams seem to have too much evidence to try play innocent.
The FIA are doing a smashing job proving themselves and Liberty Media untrustworthy in their statements quite regularly and its a genuine cause for concern, regardless of which driver or team anybody supports.

Yes the biggest coverup was Merc who had insiders at the FIA and it was swept under the carpet. FIA bad. Also British drivers and teams flexi wing coverups.

 

[quovadis]

FIA have been more focused on public image than anything else since the Spygate and Crashgate saga's.

Cheating is now regularly dealt with quietly, behind close doors, with cleaned up statements by FIA being 'we have no confirming evidence of anyone using this' in various forms over the years now, going back a decade now for various examples, one of the biggest being that 'engine' of Ferrari.

Seems, this time around though, teams themselves have concrete evidence of the device existing, and Redbull have come out admitting to it, trying to get ahead of the drama, after all the PR damage they've already suffered this year thanks to Horner and more.

They are claiming though, it doesn't help them.

TL/DR version:
FIA said "no evidence anybody has the device"
Redbull then admit its them, opposing teams seem to have too much evidence to try play innocent.
The FIA are doing a smashing job proving themselves and Liberty Media untrustworthy in their statements quite regularly and its a genuine cause for concern, regardless of which driver or team anybody supports.

Aware, I just think that sporting regulatory bodies (I'm not including FOM) should be transparent to the public

 

[quovadis]

Yes the biggest coverup was Merc who had insiders at the FIA and it was swept under the carpet. FIA bad. Also British drivers and teams flexi wing coverups.

I thought they could test the flex using the prescribed methods? That's a little different to espionage, oil used as fuel, budget overruns, bending of rules etc. The FIA just need to do a better job at specifications rather than "feelings".

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

Explained: Why Red Bull’s adjustable bib isn’t being punished by the FIA: https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-rb20-bib-adjustment-device-no-punishment-explained

"...
How does Red Bull’s bib height adjustment system work?

Details of how the bib height adjustment system on the RB20 operates have been reported by Australian publication Speedcafe, which reveals the adjustment is, technically, in the cockpit of the car.

The adjustment screw is within the footwell and cannot be accessed with the driver in place – the mechanism is located under the heel support. To access it, Red Bull’s mechanics would have to remove the nose cone, a separate panel, and the carbon section within the footwell.

This would be particularly difficult to do under parc fermé conditions without attracting the attention of the FIA, nor is it work that can be carried out surreptitiously – it’s a proper dismantling of the car required to get to the adjustment mechanism. ...

Why Red Bull hasn’t been, and isn’t likely to be, punished
... the height adjustment mechanism in itself isn’t illegal to have – and Red Bull didn’t attempt to hide the possibility of its presence, as evidenced by the documents uploaded to the FIA servers.

Why would Red Bull have such a system, one may reasonably ask? The practical use of it would be for height adjustments throughout the weekend when it’s legal to make such setup changes.

According to the statement from Red Bull, the height adjustment device is completely inaccessible when the car is fully assembled and “ready to run”.

Aside from theoretically small windows of time while carrying out any of the above permitted parc fermé changes, Red Bull’s mechanics would thus be unable to access the adjustment and, even if possible, would risk being spotted by the FIA’s technical babysitters or the garage cameras which are stationed above each car for overnight monitoring.

The Red Bull RB20 may be fitted with a device that allows, in theory, for illegal changes to be made, but there’s no evidence of its use at the times when it is illegal to use.

With Red Bull not attempting to hide its existence via documentation, and the ease with which the team would be caught if it did try to make a quick change while in parc fermé, it falls into the lap of the FIA to clarify whether or not further action is required and, on this occasion, logic would suggest Red Bull should be given the benefit of the doubt.

Certainly, championship leader Max Verstappen was nonplussed about the extent of the furore as he spoke to media, including PlanetF1.com, on Thursday.

“For us, it was just an easy tool. When the parts were off, it was easy to adjust,” he said. “But once the whole car is built together, you can’t touch it. So, for us, it doesn’t change (anything). When I read it, I was thinking about other teams doing it. And then I found out it was related to our team. We never even mentioned it in the briefings, it was just an easier tool to adjust stuff.”

With no breach of the technical regulations, no evidence of breach of the sporting regulations, and a team that has not attempted to disguise the existence of such a system – the cries of “cheating” are simply overblown, just like earlier in the year when the theory of an asymmetrical braking system on the RB20 was hypothesised without evidence.

Certainly, while rival teams flagged up the possibility of this system existing with the FIA, there has been no indication from the governing body – yet again – that any wrongdoing has taken place."

Yes just another example of the British mafia trying to bring RB down in favor of British drivers. Just in time when RB reportedly brings big upgrades they trying to bring turmoil to the team.

Max and RB are like Trump. These woke idiots will through anything possible at them and hope something sticks.

 

[quovadis]

Yes just another example of the British mafia trying to bring RB down in favor of British drivers. Just in time when RB reportedly brings big upgrades they trying to bring turmoil to the team.

Max and RB are like Trump. These woke idiots will through anything possible at them and hope something sticks.

Only you would bring a Trump/woke analogy to motorsport. It's just the normal churn - when Ferrari was winning the FIA was referred to as Ferrari International Assistance. When Merc was winning RB was whining. Now Mclaren is having a few good races and now it must be a British mafia. Get a grip.

 

[MuterOfWorlds]

Explained: Why Red Bull’s adjustable bib isn’t being punished by the FIA: https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-rb20-bib-adjustment-device-no-punishment-explained

"...
How does Red Bull’s bib height adjustment system work?

Details of how the bib height adjustment system on the RB20 operates have been reported by Australian publication Speedcafe, which reveals the adjustment is, technically, in the cockpit of the car.

The adjustment screw is within the footwell and cannot be accessed with the driver in place – the mechanism is located under the heel support. To access it, Red Bull’s mechanics would have to remove the nose cone, a separate panel, and the carbon section within the footwell.

This would be particularly difficult to do under parc fermé conditions without attracting the attention of the FIA, nor is it work that can be carried out surreptitiously – it’s a proper dismantling of the car required to get to the adjustment mechanism. ...

Why Red Bull hasn’t been, and isn’t likely to be, punished
... the height adjustment mechanism in itself isn’t illegal to have – and Red Bull didn’t attempt to hide the possibility of its presence, as evidenced by the documents uploaded to the FIA servers.

Why would Red Bull have such a system, one may reasonably ask? The practical use of it would be for height adjustments throughout the weekend when it’s legal to make such setup changes.

According to the statement from Red Bull, the height adjustment device is completely inaccessible when the car is fully assembled and “ready to run”.

Aside from theoretically small windows of time while carrying out any of the above permitted parc fermé changes, Red Bull’s mechanics would thus be unable to access the adjustment and, even if possible, would risk being spotted by the FIA’s technical babysitters or the garage cameras which are stationed above each car for overnight monitoring.

The Red Bull RB20 may be fitted with a device that allows, in theory, for illegal changes to be made, but there’s no evidence of its use at the times when it is illegal to use.

With Red Bull not attempting to hide its existence via documentation, and the ease with which the team would be caught if it did try to make a quick change while in parc fermé, it falls into the lap of the FIA to clarify whether or not further action is required and, on this occasion, logic would suggest Red Bull should be given the benefit of the doubt.

Certainly, championship leader Max Verstappen was nonplussed about the extent of the furore as he spoke to media, including PlanetF1.com, on Thursday.

“For us, it was just an easy tool. When the parts were off, it was easy to adjust,” he said. “But once the whole car is built together, you can’t touch it. So, for us, it doesn’t change (anything). When I read it, I was thinking about other teams doing it. And then I found out it was related to our team. We never even mentioned it in the briefings, it was just an easier tool to adjust stuff.”

With no breach of the technical regulations, no evidence of breach of the sporting regulations, and a team that has not attempted to disguise the existence of such a system – the cries of “cheating” are simply overblown, just like earlier in the year when the theory of an asymmetrical braking system on the RB20 was hypothesised without evidence.

Certainly, while rival teams flagged up the possibility of this system existing with the FIA, there has been no indication from the governing body – yet again – that any wrongdoing has taken place."

TL/DR version:
Just like that time Ferrari were doing nothing wrong with their engine, Sebastian was dominating, only to fall off the pace after regulation changes?

This season is eerily similiar to that, Redbull have gone from completely dominant with Max to falling off a cliff after notice of investigations and impending regulation changes, let alone after the changes themselves, as well as almost verbatum statements by FIA that no evidence anybody doing anything wrong.

We have clear past examples over decades of F1 history, that tell us exactly what is really happening, despite FIA attempts to cleanse the scene for PR image needs of F1 in order to maintain market value, sponsorship interest etc etc.

 

[Naks]

^ ffs, what part of this do you not understand?

What FIA action on Red Bull's controversial tool might really mean

Is the FIA action around Red Bull’s floor height adjusting device covering off potential misuse or tackling an actual rules breach? When does an F1 design trick actually become illegal? Scott Mitchell-Malm attempts to unravel the situation

www.the-race.com

"... Given the device exists in an open-source environment for all rival teams to see, and that is how this became a topic in the first place, it would be absurd for Red Bull to have designed and employed it in an illegal manner. There’s hiding in plain sight, and then there’s making the evidence of your supposed crime available to your competitors!... "