Fibre direct to router - EdgeRouter X SFP

Camo1

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May 20, 2014
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Hi All,

I've got vumatel at home with the standard RAYCORE CPE and a router after that. I was wondering if anyone has experience cutting the CPE out and running fibre direct to a router? (Like a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X SFP or Mikrotik hAP AC or even just a pfsense box)

My findings are as follows:


My Questions:
  • Does anyone know of a reason why this wouldn't work?
  • Has anyone tried it and have any advice?
  • Does anyone have any experience using the Vumatel SFP unit with Mikrotik or Ubiquiti kit?
  • Does anyone have experience using the listed Mikrotik SFP module with ubiquiti kit or with vumatel?

Thanks for any input.
 

Sinbad

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I would not do this - why would you want to?
There are vlans etc configured on the Vuma CPE, which they manage.
 

Camo1

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May 20, 2014
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I would not do this - why would you want to?
There are vlans etc configured on the Vuma CPE, which they manage.
I'd like to have 1 less device that needs to be powered from batteries in the case of a power outage and just generally, have 1 less device for complexity sake.
 

pinball wizard

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I'd like to have 1 less device that needs to be powered from batteries in the case of a power outage and just generally, have 1 less device for complexity sake.
Vumatel wont let you. It's as simple as that. Like it or don't like it, it is how it is if you want to use their fibre.
 

Camo1

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Vumatel wont let you. It's as simple as that. Like it or don't like it, it is how it is if you want to use their fibre.
When you say they won't let you, does that mean you've asked and they said "no"? You've tried and weren't successful? Or you have an understanding of their network that means it's not possible? If you do know it's not possible, could you shed some light on that?
 

Sinbad

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When you say they won't let you, does that mean you've asked and they said "no"? You've tried and weren't successful? Or you have an understanding of their network that means it's not possible? If you do know it's not possible, could you shed some light on that?
They will not allow it. Their management extends to that point. They won't break their standards for you.
 

Camo1

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They will not allow it. Their management extends to that point. They won't break their standards for you.
I'm trying to have a mature discussion about the technology here and keep asking for clarification and insight but keep getting childish "because it's NOT ALLOWED" responses with no reason for what prevents it besides a vague "they setup vlans on it". If you don't know then rather just keep quiet. Their "management" extends to the CPE if I plug it in.

I'm not asking them to break their standards. The CPE is just a network attached system with a defined protocol that allows me to access a service. If I replace it with another system that provides the same interface it will have no effect on their side of the network. By saying "it's not allowed" you're effectively saying it's impossible (I'm assuming since no one's willing to clarify) which it most certainly is not. It may be difficult or prohibitively expensive and that's fine - if so, why?
 

savage

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The CPE is just a network attached system with a defined protocol that allows me to access a service.
The CPE includes information which they deem to be confidential (such as for example outer and inner VLAN tags); Whilst we aren't too strict on VLAN information, we have many, many customers that does not even know what it is. Never mind when it comes to QinQ, or MPLS, or things like that (which is frequently extended right up to the CPE). As a rule of thumb we also don't give access to our CPE devices, but we do not deny it when it is requested (although we make it very clear to the customer he's on his own if he starts fiddling).

PON networks, I can almost guarantee you, you'll never, ever, get access to the CPE. There's major confidential and security information in there which would affect the security and performance of the entire PON network if fiddled with...

The CPE extends to their network as part of their management, and they more than likely use specific functionality built into the CPE to test your circuit (this would be especially true for PON). Remove the CPE and remove their access to the CPE, and they can no longer provide you with adequate support, and it becomes a he says, she says pissing contest with you saying you have a problem, and they saying that they can't replicate or see the problem to fix it;

Whilst YOU may know what you do in terms of replacing the CPE, other's don't. By allowing one (or more) to use their own CPE you set a precedent that everyone can (or would want to attempt to) use their own CPE. Now you sit with thousands of devices that 1) you must have experience with, 2) that you must support, and 3) other users (unlike you) that do not know what they are doing, and THEY end up breaking things;

All of the above, creates a MASSIVE burden in terms of faults/support, and sets the tone of absolute chaos.

It's not about not trusting you, or you not knowing what you're doing. It's about setting a "norm," enforcing that "norm" to EVERYBODY, and to ensure that the ISP has the required tools (built into the CPE) in order to provide adequate levels of support. With large networks, scaling is key. With scaling, keeping everything the same, as far as possible, is key. That, includes the CPE, and the management thereof.

Or... Do you want your Fiber to move to the same situation that DSL is in, whereby Telkom says its the ISP, and the ISP says its the exchange?

EDIT: I can just see consumers maxing the TX power on their optics and blowing SFP interfaces on the ISP side. I can just see end users staring into the ends of fiber optic cabling whilst it's lit, nuking their eyes and then coming to blame the ISP... No, keep the consumer well away from the CPE is what I'd say.
 
Last edited:

Sinbad

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Are you 5 years old?
"i don't like their rules so tantrum insult flame"?
 

pinball wizard

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When you say they won't let you, does that mean you've asked and they said "no"? You've tried and weren't successful? Or you have an understanding of their network that means it's not possible? If you do know it's not possible, could you shed some light on that?
It means I work for an open access fibre provider.
 
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