Fibre: Secunda Community

[MickeyD]

Firstly because google is a search engine and it is used for searching for information you might be looking for.. that is in fact the purpose of a search engine.

So I stand corrected..

Was that so hard to do from the beginning?

It interrupted my rugby viewing

What could change the relationship is Telkom spinning off its wholesale division in "openserve". They will now be in direct competition to DFA and other providers. Could be interesting.

 

[Swa]

Some of the Weltevredenpark residents are already looking to Vumatel. 123Net has really managed to burn bridges. Not a good start.

 

[Johnatan56]

Some of the Weltevredenpark residents are already looking to Vumatel. 123Net has really managed to burn bridges. Not a good start.

Yeah, this radio silence and the removal of the 5/1

 

[Fudpukker]

Is there anyone, anywhere in SA connected to 123net already? Umhlanga?

 

[DJ...]

Nope...

 

[DJ...]

Is it just me or are ISP's not seeing this from a moneymaking point of view.

I present to you the DFA network connecting to different cities and towns across SA. where the green lines are LIVE already connected open access fibre infrastructure.

I included the approximate population numbers for each city/town that has the infrastructure already in place.
The open access fibre network was purposely built for businesses and ISPS <--- to lease and connect buisnesses and homes.
http://www.dfafrica.co.za/network/open_access

View attachment 309708

Now Here is our Town Secunda the lovely little place with around 40 thousand people earning relatively high income, thanks to Sasol being a National key point

View attachment 309710

If an ISP such as 123Net were to outsource and partner with DFA I believe that they could have already been raking in the big bucks because the demand is there and always has been.

If people can remember. this is the way Cell C arose. By partnering with other network providers that already had infrastructure. then after a good 5 years or so. started building their own infrastructure.

Not to mention Telkom the current monopoly being a total dumbass competing with DFA and not establishing partnerships in order to increase the bandwidth average for the entire south africa.

If Telkom were smart they could have fed their greed and helped the country at the same time.. but sadly this is not the case

Get everyone to register on fibrenetwork.co.za and we can see what we can do. We're busy installing fibre over DFA, Telkom Metro Clear, and Telkom FTTH...

 

[Johnatan56]

Get everyone to register on fibrenetwork.co.za and we can see what we can do. We're busy installing fibre over DFA, Telkom Metro Clear, and Telkom FTTH...

Wish I could say between these values, it depends on the speed/CAP that would be enforced. If fast enough I'd drop DSTV and add that to the fiber budget, making it around 2k.

 

[Swa]

Wish I could say between these values, it depends on the speed/CAP that would be enforced. If fast enough I'd drop DSTV and add that to the fiber budget, making it around 2k.

Yup an ISP would have to show me their packages first before I would consider them.

 

[Henry.de.kock]

Let's do some calculations quickly:

Trenching (only trenching) costs minimum R500/m, no matter whether you are Bulgarian or South African. There are no special trenching rates for non-South Africans.
Now go measure from yours to your neighbour's property. Now go measure the street, both sides. Now figure out what only the trenching costs are for that street.
Now realise not everyone on the street will be prepared to pay. So remove them from the equation and pass that buck on to the those willing to pay.

Trenching alone is around R15k inclusive (bare minimum) per house with just 20metres between them (small, relatively, given our house spacing in SA). If I charge you R3k, I have to fund R12k per installation (minimum). And I have to recover that cost over the course of the funding agreement terms, as well as somehow operate in a solvent state as a business. This all excludes CPE, installation into your property, business overheads, interest on finance, tax, depreciation, bandwidth, networking equipment, peering costs, human capital, and carrying networking infrastructure spares and maintenance.

Now do this on a risk model only (uncapped no FUP), and offer free internet on what is traditionally your high margin customers so no guarantee of capital recovery here.

If I put this in front of you as a business model and asked you to invest in my idea (because that's all that this currently is), would you really? Now ask why anyone else would, and if you really think anyone else has done so to date?

I'm not saying they haven't discovered a magical way to eliminate some of these costs, and well done if they have. But what's becoming apparent is that the promises made were unattainable, and a brand in its simplest form is a promise made and a promise kept.

I wish fibre proliferation would happen. It would be superb for the industry as a whole. I do see it slowly happening, but not using the model above...

Dude we had this argument before. Yes it is expensive to do the trenching, no one argues that point. But what you guys want to do is make a profit on day one. Seems like you cant grasp that it just isnt possible.

The more people you get to sign and pay, the faster you will start to see profit. But with your logic you can forget that, you say it is expensive since a small amount of people sign, but it is the other way around, because you charge a kidney and half a liver no one will sign. people wont pay a ridiculous amount of money for something that could be allot cheaper. Ask less, get more to pay and win.

Then we have the issue with caps and fup's. We offer you fast internet but please dont use it since we wont get rich if you do. Pay us allot of money and dont use your internet or else we will throttle you. Why pay so expensive for something you are not allowed to use. If I pay for it, I expect to use it, in which ever way I want.

Tldr. Ask less, dont have fup's = more ppl= profit.

Just my point of view

 

[MickeyD]

Dude we had this argument before. Yes it is expensive to do the trenching, no one argues that point. But what you guys want to do is make a profit on day one. Seems like you cant grasp that it just isnt possible.

The more people you get to sign and pay, the faster you will start to see profit. But with your logic you can forget that, you say it is expensive since a small amount of people sign, but it is the other way around, because you charge a kidney and half a liver no one will sign. people wont pay a ridiculous amount of money for something that could be allot cheaper. Ask less, get more to pay and win.

Then we have the issue with caps and fup's. We offer you fast internet but please dont use it since we wont get rich if you do. Pay us allot of money and dont use your internet or else we will throttle you. Why pay so expensive for something you are not allowed to use. If I pay for it, I expect to use it, in which ever way I want.

Tldr. Ask less, dont have fup's = more ppl= profit.

Just my point of view

It's not about the price to the customer...

It's about how the network provider is going to obtain funds to build the network.

 

[Henry.de.kock]

It's not about the price to the customer...

It's about how the network provider is going to obtain funds to build the network.

They wont. That is my point. They need people to sign for them to get the capital. But if you suck as an isp and ask too much the people wont sign and you wont get the capital.

 

[])ragon_\/oid]

Tldr. Ask less, dont have fup's = more ppl= profit.

I see no problem with FUP's. They are not in place to save the ISP's money, but rather to ensure that the performance of the network doesn't get influenced negatively if someone decides to download 24/7. If you have 1:1 fibre sure, no FPU's is awesome, but FTTH doesn't have a 1:1 contention ratio.

 

[MickeyD]

They wont. That is my point. They need people to sign for them to get the capital. But if you suck as an isp and ask too much the people wont sign and you wont get the capital.

Why do you want to bring the ISP into this? The network provider can have an open access model where customers have a choice of ISPs.

 

[thatdamnJoe]

Let's do some calculations quickly:

Trenching (only trenching) costs minimum R500/m, no matter whether you are Bulgarian or South African. There are no special trenching rates for non-South Africans.
Now go measure from yours to your neighbour's property. Now go measure the street, both sides. Now figure out what only the trenching costs are for that street.
Now realise not everyone on the street will be prepared to pay. So remove them from the equation and pass that buck on to the those willing to pay.

Trenching alone is around R15k inclusive (bare minimum) per house with just 20metres between them (small, relatively, given our house spacing in SA). If I charge you R3k, I have to fund R12k per installation (minimum). And I have to recover that cost over the course of the funding agreement terms, as well as somehow operate in a solvent state as a business. This all excludes CPE, installation into your property, business overheads, interest on finance, tax, depreciation, bandwidth, networking equipment, peering costs, human capital, and carrying networking infrastructure spares and maintenance.

Now do this on a risk model only (uncapped no FUP), and offer free internet on what is traditionally your high margin customers so no guarantee of capital recovery here.

If I put this in front of you as a business model and asked you to invest in my idea (because that's all that this currently is), would you really? Now ask why anyone else would, and if you really think anyone else has done so to date?

I'm not saying they haven't discovered a magical way to eliminate some of these costs, and well done if they have. But what's becoming apparent is that the promises made were unattainable, and a brand in its simplest form is a promise made and a promise kept.

I wish fibre proliferation would happen. It would be superb for the industry as a whole. I do see it slowly happening, but not using the model above...

R500/m?

Seems a bit high doesn't it?

 

[Swa]

Dude we had this argument before. Yes it is expensive to do the trenching, no one argues that point. But what you guys want to do is make a profit on day one. Seems like you cant grasp that it just isnt possible.

The more people you get to sign and pay, the faster you will start to see profit. But with your logic you can forget that, you say it is expensive since a small amount of people sign, but it is the other way around, because you charge a kidney and half a liver no one will sign. people wont pay a ridiculous amount of money for something that could be allot cheaper. Ask less, get more to pay and win.

Then we have the issue with caps and fup's. We offer you fast internet but please dont use it since we wont get rich if you do. Pay us allot of money and dont use your internet or else we will throttle you. Why pay so expensive for something you are not allowed to use. If I pay for it, I expect to use it, in which ever way I want.

Tldr. Ask less, dont have fup's = more ppl= profit.

Just my point of view

.

R500/m?

Seems a bit high doesn't it?

I want to know the raw cost of trenching. Not an average cost of the network including all costs per meter and then make it out like it costs that much if you add a meter to the network. If it was R500 for digging a 1 meter hole I would sign up tomorrow.

 

[thatdamnJoe]

Seeing a whole lot of complaining in this thread, but not quite sure why the level of passion.

Who has actually paid anything?

123net will either roll out when they deem the business case to work out, and then you can start judging them on their merits or they won't, in which case you haven't lost anything except the effort you put into complaining here.

My advice;
Chill
Sign up for 24 month contract with no upfront install fee
Receive service as advertised and pay, or don't receive service and don't pay.

 

[Henry.de.kock]

I see no problem with FUP's. They are not in place to save the ISP's money, but rather to ensure that the performance of the network doesn't get influenced negatively if someone decides to download 24/7. If you have 1:1 fibre sure, no FPU's is awesome, but FTTH doesn't have a 1:1 contention ratio.

I dont pay for it from 6pm to 6am. I pay for a whole month, so if I want to dl 24/7 and get the full value of what I pay for, I shouldnt be penalised. Here buy a Bentley, but you cant use the seat warmers during winter... You pay for it, you can use it 24/7 if needed.

 

[])ragon_\/oid]

I dont pay for it from 6pm to 6am. I pay for a whole month, so if I want to dl 24/7 and get the full value of what I pay for, I shouldnt be penalised. Here buy a Bentley, but you cant use the seat warmers during winter... You pay for it, you can use it 24/7 if needed.

So basically you will be happy if you share the same backbone as other users that download the whole day, and only leave you a bit of bandwidth to work with? FUP's also doesn't mean you will be throttled at certain times. Some FUP'S implement other measures to ensure users get an optimal experience.

 

[Swa]

I dont pay for it from 6pm to 6am. I pay for a whole month, so if I want to dl 24/7 and get the full value of what I pay for, I shouldnt be penalised. Here buy a Bentley, but you cant use the seat warmers during winter... You pay for it, you can use it 24/7 if needed.

It will also only have a dramatic impact on an already overloaded network.

 

[Alex$The$Alien]

I see no problem with FUP's. They are not in place to save the ISP's money, but rather to ensure that the performance of the network doesn't get influenced negatively if someone decides to download 24/7. If you have 1:1 fibre sure, no FPU's is awesome, but FTTH doesn't have a 1:1 contention ratio.

I have a Major issue with certain FUPs and I've experienced it at it's worst with axxess. I was literally paying for a certain type of service advertised and because I downloaded say 50gb in one month my star level dropped down to 1 PERMANENTLY which in turn caused me to be unable to browse, play games, or even stream stuff on youtube. I thought That it would reset the following month but no. It certainly did not.

If you actually go and read that FUP from greencom. you will understand that your traffic is closely monitored. and should you attempt to use anonymity tools such as a VPN they can cut your service. so no thanks.