Fifa frets over 2010 stadiums

Sneeky said:
Hi Icyrus, the intial comment and yours are valid, but this type/size of investment does not happen without a driver.
If the guv had to say they wanted to build a couple of stadiums, improve roads, electricity, telecoms etc etc all in one go there would be a national outcry and endless debates on how much money where and when would be spent. The world cup provides the incentive for all parties, opposition included, to buy into the concept and support the expense, it aint cheap.
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No. If the government announced that they plan to build 5 new hospitals (roughly the same size as Joburg General) and upgrade the infrastructure, there would be no outcry. We are in desperate need of a revamped and upgraded health system.

Building five new stadiums is in all essence a huge waste of money, especially considering that this is only a month long event and there are already sufficient stadiums in South Africa covering our current sporting events. Why build 5 new stadiums? Nice to have? Hospitals are have to haves. We have a serious problem of priorities in this country - but I guess you can't make money from a public hospital quite as nicely as being involved in a BEE consortium involved in hosting a month long event can you?
 
marine1 said:
Bwana this maybe will happen but it will definitely not be sustained. We have seen what this gvt does to the infrastructure.
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True but people always look after things better if they've been forced to pay for them.
 
People we all know our government is corrupt and there are going to be bribes etc, but at the end of the day if FIFA takes the WC from us what purpose would it serve besides to show that our government is incompetent, that we all know already, no great suprise. But it will impact on the sporting world, and basically mean we will never get a chance to host anything again, that would just be a loss to the sporting world and the fans wouldnt it.!
 
bwana said:
You mean we wont benefit from the improved security, digital tv, communications, etc as required by fifa?

The new police etc will mean employment - and not just for when the cup is on. New stadiums mean jobs - maintaining stadiums mean jobs- all the tourists mean jobs. The way I see it every person employed means one less bugger getting up to no good.

So yeah - I think we're better off having the world cup even though I cant stand the sport. ;)
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Building infrastructure (like hospitals) secures jobs. Uplifting communities means job creation. Spending billions of rands on a month long event building 5 stadiums will create how many jobs exactly? What happens to all the construction workers after the event? There are many better ways to spend billions of rand, but partying is this governments preferred choice. Oh, and do you think all the police and security officials hired before the world cup will actually be retained to after the event? Maybe you are not 100% aware of how it worked at the last two major sporting events. The organisers of the rugby and cricket world cup subcontracted security companies to take care of security who in turn contracted casual and temporary staff to take up the special requirement of additional people. These contracts expired after the events. That is not exactly sustainable job creation is it? ;) back at ya.
 
Rex- i hear what you are saying but the rest of the world needs to realise this and treat our gvt accordingly. Do you have any idea how much money is given to this country and we never see any of it? The US, UK, etc give billions to us and the guys at the top just use it for themselves. This must stop. Stop giving Africa money to burn.
 
marine1 said:
Rex- i hear what you are saying but the rest of the world needs to realise this and treat our gvt accordingly. Do you have any idea how much money is given to this country and we never see any of it? The US, UK, etc give billions to us and the guys at the top just use it for themselves. This must stop. Stop giving Africa money to burn.
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I agree with you Marine, but if the world stopped giving Africa money wouldnt the situation just get even worse, I mean even if only 5% of what is given trickles through isnt it better than nothing at all?

As for what happens to all the stadiums afterwards, i would assume they will use them, and doesnt employing only a few people for a few months help than not employing any at all. Plus the WC being a sporting event can only have a limited time of infrastructure, you cant expect more than that, its the case in any country that has hosted it before it, the fact that so much money is spent is not unique to us, all previous hosts made the same lay out.
 
BobbyMac said:
Building infrastructure (like hospitals) secures jobs. Uplifting communities means job creation. Spending billions of rands on a month long event building 5 stadiums will create how many jobs exactly? What happens to all the construction workers after the event?
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Well the building will take a maximum of 3 years so that is employment for thousands of people for 3 years. The building companies will then be looking at how best to use the labour after the construction is complete and if they are lucky they get to keep their jobs. Worse case scenario they lose their jobs in three years and will have to find new ones. At least they have had 3 years emplyment?

marine1 said:
Rex- i hear what you are saying but the rest of the world needs to realise this and treat our gvt accordingly. Do you have any idea how much money is given to this country and we never see any of it? The US, UK, etc give billions to us and the guys at the top just use it for themselves. This must stop. Stop giving Africa money to burn.
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Umm have you got anything to back that accusation up?
I have not seen anything recently where the UK and US has given South Africa money for nothing?

I have seen many articles where we have taken loans, which we are paying back without missing payments, but I haven't seen any donations heading to SA in the last I would say 8 years?

Oprah/Bill Gates or any other person like that does not count as they don't donate to the government they donate to charities all over the world including SA.
 
Rex Regis said:
I agree with you Marine, but if the world stopped giving Africa money wouldnt the situation just get even worse, I mean even if only 5% of what is given trickles through isnt it better than nothing at all?

As for what happens to all the stadiums afterwards, i would assume they will use them, and doesnt employing only a few people for a few months help than not employing any at all. Plus the WC being a sporting event can only have a limited time of infrastructure, you cant expect more than that, its the case in any country that has hosted it before it, the fact that so much money is spent is not unique to us, all previous hosts made the same lay out.
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I agree to a point. Gvt needs to understand that they cannot keep getting away with murder. Literally. If the international support dries up then they will wake up. We need to go through hard times to get to the good times.
 
BobbyMac said:
Building infrastructure (like hospitals) secures jobs. Uplifting communities means job creation. Spending billions of rands on a month long event building 5 stadiums will create how many jobs exactly? What happens to all the construction workers after the event? There are many better ways to spend billions of rand, but partying is this governments preferred choice. Oh, and do you think all the police and security officials hired before the world cup will actually be retained to after the event? Maybe you are not 100% aware of how it worked at the last two major sporting events. The organisers of the rugby and cricket world cup subcontracted security companies to take care of security who in turn contracted casual and temporary staff to take up the special requirement of additional people. These contracts expired after the events. That is not exactly sustainable job creation is it? ;) back at ya.
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The way I see it is that the world cup is going to bring in a lot of money - more than enough to cover the costs of building these stadiums - which in themselves will remain long after the event. The more important question is what should the government do with the money generated? Thats where the schools, hospitals, rebuilding will come from.

Improved security is going to have to be a lot more extensive than hiring a few guards - the spotlight is on the country from now on so that means police and a safer environment otherwise the fans simply wont come even if fifa doesnt pull the plug. I dont think all those cops are going to just disappear after the whistle has blown.

Remember - this is a lot bigger than the previous world cups SA hosted.
 
marine1 said:
I agree to a point. Gvt needs to understand that they cannot keep getting away with murder. Literally. If the international support dries up then they will wake up. We need to go through hard times to get to the good times.
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Remember that those hard times will be ten times harder for the extreme poor than for you
 
bwana said:
The way I see it is that the world cup is going to bring in a lot of money - more than enough to cover the costs of building these stadiums - which in themselves will remain long after the event.
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I totally disagree. They will never recover the costs and we the taxpayers are going to foot that bill. You think those building will stand the test of time? Maybe but then again maybe not.
 
Rex I agree. Poor will get poorer. Gavin , I cannot show you exactly where the money is but are you telling me that the west does not donate or loan money to this and other countries for development? The US and Uk have a history of lending or donating money to us and other developing nations. To be used for development not for buying cars and houses for leaders
 
bwana said:
Improved security is going to have to be a lot more extensive than hiring a few guards - the spotlight is on the country from now on so that means police and a safer environment otherwise the fans simply wont come even if fifa doesnt pull the plug. I dont think all those cops are going to just disappear after the whistle has blown.
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The spotlight re crime has been on this country for a very long time. FIFA has never said anything about the crime rate in this country, and probably will only say something if something major happens during the actual event. The fans will come. People come to SA despite the high crime. It is, in any case, not the tourists under major criminal threat but the permanent citizens of this country who are. And the government is denying that there is even a critical problem in this regard. So no, sorry, I don't share your enthusiasm that this is the magic pill we've been waiting for. The world cup is a sporting event and should be treated as such. Just enough should be done to make it a success, but the bulk of what the government does should still be for the majority of the country, not the minority sitting in some fancy boardroom somewhere near some state of the art multi billion rand stadium. If I'm wrong then excellent; we will be uplifted and reap the rewards for a long and hopefully bumper time. But what if the ANC doesn't care about the citizens of this country (and by all accounts it really is beginning to look that way)? What if this event is a magic pill but for only a select few? I mean, how many new faces are around in the organisation of this event? Versus how many fat cats?
 
marine1 said:
Rex I agree. Poor will get poorer. Gavin , I cannot show you exactly where the money is but are you telling me that the west does not donate or loan money to this and other countries for development? The US and Uk have a history of lending or donating money to us and other developing nations. To be used for development not for buying cars and houses for leaders
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Ah so you happily admit your rantings on how we waste the donations are based on pure fiction.....

There is a very nice breakdown on SA's economy here

http://www.heritage.org/index/country.cfm?id=SouthAfrica

South Africa's economy is 64.1 percent free, according to our 2007 assessment, which makes it the world's 52nd freest economy. Its overall score is 2.2 percentage points lower than last year, partially reflecting new methodological detail. South Africa is ranked 3rd out of 40 countries in the sub-Saharan Africa region, and its overall score is much higher than the regional average.

South Africa enjoys fairly high levels of business freedom, fiscal freedom, monetary freedom, freedom from government, and financial freedom. The government has been working to increase the transparency of commercial regulations. Income tax rates are high, but corporate taxes are relatively moderate, and overall tax revenue is moderate as a percentage of GDP. Inflation is low, and the government actively subsidizes the market prices of only a few staple goods. South Africa's financial system is the most developed in Africa.

South Africa's investment freedom, property rights, and freedom from corruption could be improved. The judicial system is slow, primarily because of understaffing and inefficiency. Race laws and unclear regulation hamper foreign investment, but the legal environment is free from political interference and the threat of expropriation.
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Again I quickly checked the IMF site where most loans would be through...

IV. Outstanding Purchases and Loans: None

V. Latest Financial Arrangements: None
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Yeah it really looks like we are in trouble doesn't it..

Seriously use facts to backup your doomsday arguments or you just end up looking like an idiot.
 
I don't see FIFA as being a panacea. The measures to protect and transport tourists are all touted as temporary. Surveillance will be around the stadiums, and improved communications will be centered around equipment at the stadiums. You'd think the power outage during SA vs, Pakistan would have shocked someone into a wake-up by now...

FIFA will be good while it lasts, but it's going to take a massive failure to reorganise this country's leadership, and that's what we need.
 
GavinMannion said:
Again I quickly checked the IMF site where most loans would be through...
Yeah it really looks like we are in trouble doesn't it..
Seriously use facts to backup your doomsday arguments or you just end up looking like an idiot.
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Don't be silly Gavin. South Africa receives huge amounts of economic aid from the US and other countries, almost entirely in the form of donations.
 
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