Focus shifts to Windows 8 and Surface tablet

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Fudzy

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I wonder how well drawing tablets/touch surfaces (Wacom etc) will work with the Surface interface? Would be cool to be able to run dual inputs. Use the mouse for precise stuff and the tablet for navigation etc.
 

Kompete

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Not sure MS will win this one. In the 80/90's when MS based pc's dominated - customers thought that was 'as good as it gets'; not knowing that there was another alternative where slicker software/hardware integration can give you a better experience, aka the Mac.

This time round (with tablet pc's) most have now tasted that experience in the ipad and in fact it extends to software/hardware/retail (virtual and bricks/m)integration and it tasted good. Fool me once...
 

McCrazieGoalz

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Not sure MS will win this one. In the 80/90's when MS based pc's dominated - customers thought that was 'as good as it gets'; not knowing that there was another alternative where slicker software/hardware integration can give you a better experience, aka the Mac.

This time round (with tablet pc's) most have now tasted that experience in the ipad and in fact it extends to software/hardware/retail (virtual and bricks/m)integration and it tasted good. Fool me once...
I completely disagree really.

This arguement about slicker (more userfriendly, more intuitive) SW/HW integration is a very biased personal opinion. Perhaps justification for buying iToys.

Personally, I find myself utterly lost when I pop into an Apple store and try and use them devices. I find myself giving up and then resorting to only looking at the music player or just opening up the internet browser and reading news articles.

I asked someone else in the shop who was also looking at a Mac how to start writing a document. He did not know either.

The fact is, familiarity is a very powerful factor that Microsoft has in its favor in its battle to keep selling its products and to gain traction in mobile (smartphones and tablets). I will not buy an iDevice. I am not familiar with it and I don't want to start learning how to use it, that is valuable productivity time that I will be wasting. Another fact is, with those prices, an iDevice is really an elitist's product. Their products can be classified as conspicuous consumption goods. Productivity and enterprise will simply be side shows.

Conspicuous consumption is the spending of money for and the acquiring of luxury goods and services to publicly display economic power—either the buyer’s income or the buyer’s accumulated wealth. Sociologically, to the conspicuous consumer, such a public display of discretionary economic power is a means either of attaining or of maintaining a given social status. Moreover, invidious consumption, a more specialized sociologic term, denotes the deliberate conspicuous consumption of goods and services intended to provoke the envy of other people, as a means of displaying the buyer’s superior socio-economic status. Wikipedia
Or perhaps ''invidious consumption'' goods? No wonder most of the Fortune 500 companies are considering Apple products.

Windows 8 makes sense. I feel it will make dollars and cents too with its productivity centred products, which are for everybody.
 
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Fudzy

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^ This.

Quoted out of context.
Your entire post made that line quite clear. You should have asked about the iPad training at the Apple store, they provide it free of charge for those not as technically inclined as others.
 

McCrazieGoalz

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Your entire post made that line quite clear. You should have asked about the iPad training at the Apple store, they provide it free of charge for those not as technically inclined as others.
I don't think it is not so much ''not as technically inclined'' as it is 'not Apple product inclined i.e Apple product knowledgeable'. There is a big difference. And perhaps I did not make that point clear enough.

Again, the point that I am making is that intuitiveness is really more about familiarity than anything else.

Win8 will be like riding a bike.

Starting to use an Apple product will be like ''LEARNING how to ride a unicycle''. This is something that I am not prepared to do for various reasons, one of which is the fact that there is an alternative anyway. And a good and more functional one at that.

If I fail then my only failure will be failure to use an Apple product.
 
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Fudzy

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I don't think it is not so much ''not as technically inclined'' as it is 'not Apple product inclined i.e Apple product knowledgeable'. There is a big difference. And perhaps I did not make that point clear enough.

Again, the point that I am making is that intuitiveness is really more about familiarity than anything else.

Win8 will be like riding a bike.

Starting to use an Apple product will be like ''LEARNING how to ride a unicycle''. This is something that I am not prepared to do for various reasons, one of which is the fact that there is an alternative anyway. And a good and more functional one at that.

If I fail then my only failure will be failure to use an Apple product.
You've never really used a iPad, have you? Tell me what's so complicated and unintuitive about it? It just works, which is also it's downfall as more advanced users cannot get as much out of it as other platform but it doesn't ever try to give an impression that it can. Hence the issue with the way that the Surface has been touted, it's not living up to expectations.
 

McCrazieGoalz

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You've never really used a iPad, have you? Tell me what's so complicated and unintuitive about it? It just works, which is also it's downfall as more advanced users cannot get as much out of it as other platform but it doesn't ever try to give an impression that it can. Hence the issue with the way that the Surface has been touted, it's not living up to expectations.
I already said that Apple products are elitist and conspicuous consumption products.

Something that Windows and indeed Windows 8 devices are not.

In fact. While the first digital computer like tablet was made by Microsoft.

What Microsoft failed to do was to make it as a conspicuous consumption product. With their focus on productivity, they designed it as a work device but the industry thought they were nuts. The industry was not quite ready for it. In came Apple who made it into a 'sexy' 'new' gadget for the well-to-do. It worked.
 
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Fudzy

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I already said that I see Apple products as elitist and conspicuous consumption products.

Something that Windows and indeed Windows 8 devices are not.
Ah okay so the merit of what you're saying is based on a blinkered, ignorant opinion?
 

McCrazieGoalz

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Ah okay so the merit of what you're saying is based on a blinkered, ignorant opinion?
Well, perhaps. Perhaps I have never 'really' used an Apple product and perhaps according to you my limited experience is not enough for me to make an opinion about it.

However, I am basing my opinion my real experiences with Apple products. As I said in my initial post, I have attempted to use Apple products in within Apple stores.

So, to say my arguement is based on blinkered ignorant opinion is not absolutely correct. I have used Apple products somewhat. And I did not like what I saw and experienced - UI wise.
 
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Kompete

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I don't think it is not so much ''not as technically inclined'' as it is 'not Apple product inclined i.e Apple product knowledgeable'. There is a big difference. And perhaps I did not make that point clear enough.

Again, the point that I am making is that intuitiveness is really more about familiarity than anything else.

Win8 will be like riding a bike.

Starting to use an Apple product will be like ''LEARNING how to ride a unicycle''. This is something that I am not prepared to do for various reasons, one of which is the fact that there is an alternative anyway. And a good and more functional one at that.

If I fail then my only failure will be failure to use an Apple product.
I gave my then 2.5 year old son an ipad on christmas last year and he never once asked for instructions ;) ... he just used it. I do admit I had to DL the apps for him, but that was about it
 
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Fudzy

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Well, perhaps. Perhaps I have never 'really' used an Apple product - depending on what your definition of 'really used' is.
Flip.

However, I am basing my oponion my real experiences with Apple products. As I said in my initial post, I have attempted to use Apple products in Apple stores.
Flop.

So, to say my arguement is based on blinkered ignorant opinion is not absolutely correct. I have used Apple products somewhat. And I did not like what I saw.
Flip.

I quoted you in full just in case it seems as if I'm misquoting what you're saying. Let's take a few steps back here (in flip-flops perhaps). We are discussing tablets as they emerged as a technology platform in this century. Not desktops or notebooks. You need to stop presenting information as fact when you are not even sure whether or not you can draw a proper comparison.
 

DrJohnZoidberg

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I was quite looking forward to the release of the Surface when it was announced, I must say I am no longer very enthusiastic after seeing some of the hands on videos. It just does not have enough impact to justify the long wait.
 
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