Forced Annual Leave.

requiem

requiem

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I have an interesting question.

We were informed that we are to take annual leave in December. I understand this to be perfectly above board.

However, the company only grants us 17 days annual leave per annum, but are requiring us to take 21 "work days" leave in the december period.

Some people have used leave during the year.... before this "shutdown" period was announced.

My problem is in effect, what this does, is being forced to take more leave per year than physically can accrue.

We have no idea how this will work next year december - or if the company will still exist by then .


This effectively will put the vast majority of employees into negative leave, and thereby force any employee who resigns in the foreseable future, to have to pay the company back, for the "extra leave"


Any legal insights?
 
Many employers would reserve the right to automatically make any annual leave taken in excess of that to what the employee is entitled at the time of the leave unpaid leave. If they do allow leave entitlement to go into negative numbers this would normally be a concession and not an employees right.

In other word I suspect the company would be fully within their rights to deduct as unpaid any leave days taken in December (even if compulsory) which exceed the employees days due at that time.
 
I called the CCMA - very difficult to explain to the person over the phone..... you know how call centers are staffed :P

They say it sounds fishy - and the company has to explain, i'm just looking for any legal opinions, before I approach the powers that be.
 
mikef said:
Many employers would reserve the right to automatically make any annual leave taken in excess of that to what the employee is entitled at the time of the leave unpaid leave. If they do allow leave entitlement to go into negative numbers this would normally be a concession and not an employees right.

In other word I suspect the company would be fully within their rights to deduct as unpaid any leave days taken in December (even if compulsory) which exceed the employees days due at that time.
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that sonds dodge, surely there must be a limit to the amount of forced days?
 
I would understand if we were made aware of the shutdown period when the original contract was signed....

What this in effect does is lower the CTC of our annual package.
 
Maybe you should try to find out why they are doing this, is the company in trouble ?

Maybe they are just trying to save the company and the alternative is closure and retrenchment ?
 
Sorta depends on the company's policy. Do your leave days carry over year to year? Do the days get paid out if not taken (i.e. does it vest)?

As for negative leave. Lol CCMA will have a field day with that.
 
The idea is we will then be in negative leave to sort out in future - either repayment upon resignation, or until it builds up again. Assuming this happens the same way next december, it will be impossible to ever build up a consistent positive leave balance. As every year you are taking more leave than you are entitled to.
 
Jola said:
Well, I have been given an infinite amount of compulsory unpaid leave (retrenchment), so it can be done :D
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except that is unpaid leave, and not leave that goes into the negative

requiem said:
The idea is we will then be in negative leave to sort out in future - either repayment upon resignation, or until it builds up again. Assuming this happens the same way next december, it will be impossible to ever build up a consistent positive leave balance. As every year you are taking more leave than you are entitled to.
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seek out a labour lawyer or CCMA, i am almost certain they cannot force you to take that much leave.
 
requiem said:
The idea is we will then be in negative leave to sort out in future - either repayment upon resignation, or until it builds up again. Assuming this happens the same way next december, it will be impossible to ever build up a consistent positive leave balance. As every year you are taking more leave than you are entitled to.
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Dude you need to find a new job asap. A company with aggro policies like that is either sinking fast or just plain evil....either way sucks.

Is the 21 days in some contract or agreement you signed?

If not I'd say take all of your leave day and if they come with that negative leave thing tell them to stfu.
 
mikef said:
Many employers would reserve the right to automatically make any annual leave taken in excess of that to what the employee is entitled at the time of the leave unpaid leave. If they do allow leave entitlement to go into negative numbers this would normally be a concession and not an employees right.

In other word I suspect the company would be fully within their rights to deduct as unpaid any leave days taken in December (even if compulsory) which exceed the employees days due at that time.
Click to expand...

That doesn't sound right. Annual Leave and Unpaid Leave is not the same thing. Surely you can't tell everyone in the middle of June "we are shutting down for 2 months, you all WILL go on "Unpaid Annual Leave" ? Just because it's in December doesn't mean it's fair..surely.

It's one thing if you get 20 days leave per year and you use it all up before December and THEN they tell you ,you must take 10 days "forced" leave and THEN tell you it will be unpaid because you already used up your leave [that sounds fair enough] , BUT there's no way i can think it's fair to force you to go on unpaid leave if you never had any leave to begin with and/or they are not giving you enough leave to cover the "forced" leave period.

I wouldn't accept that, since it's open to abuse every-time the company is running low on cash , they just put everyone on some sort of unpaid leave...? Isn't that basically like "suspending without pay" ?
 
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diabolus said:
It's one thing if you get 20 days leave per year and you use it all up before December and THEN they tell you ,you must take 10 days "forced" leave and THEN tell you it will be unpaid because you already used up your leave [that sounds fair enough]
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Hows that fair? Telling you after you've taken leave that you have to take forced leave and they won't pay you because you've used all your leave
 
I am actually sure forced leave has to be stipulated in your contract..
I checked and mine certainly is....
 
My company has the same policy but we have a good overtime system in place. For every 8 hours of overtime you work you get a days leave OR you can get paid for it. I obv prefer the days leave.
 
tau1z said:
that sonds dodge, surely there must be a limit to the amount of forced days?
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The limit would in most instances be the amount of annual leave due for a year. The fact that the employer expects the employee to take their leave at a specified time of the year should be contained in the employment contract however afaik the employer has the right to grant any annual leave at a time suitable to them. Not to say that some actions of the employer might be considered unreasonable though.
 
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