Free basic electricity problems in South Africa

[Swa]

I'm sorry but how is it relevant that it was set all the way back in 2003? In fact back in 2003 we still used incandescent bulbs and CCFLs. Now most of the lights are LED based, ergo the consumption is less. And in fact other appliances may be a bit more energy efficient eg if people use an induction cooker. Fewer people watch TVs, especially those old CRT ones which drew a lot of power. Now people watch stuff on their smartphones which need very little power.

But that 50kWh was set in 2003 would be a positive. It's not as though electricity use increases as the decades fly by. It's not as though R50 worth of power was set in 2003 and we still give them R50 worth of power. The free amount has kept up with inflation and all increases. It's 50kWh worth of energy.

The rest of the topups cost a lot more now than in 2003.

 

[Mirai]

The rest of the topups cost a lot more now than in 2003.

That's the top ups, because of inflation. Everything costs a lot more that it did in 2003 but the basic allowance is way more significant than in 2003. Electricity was pretty cheap back then, but now with more efficient electrical devices (chiefly LED vs incandescent bulbs) and smartphones/LCD TV vs CRT TVs, you get way more out of this. A 14W LED bulb will give you the equivalent of a 100W incandescent while CRT TVs would consume 100-150W+ with an LED TV 32 inches, now running at 20-60W.

 

[Swa]

That's the top ups, because of a thing called inflation.

But the fact is that the basic allowance stayed the same, despite reduced power draw from lights, at the very least, and definitely fewer heavy appliances such as CRT TVs which were still around in 2003.

Ah no, the basic allowance stayed the same but people could afford to buy more. Electricity has gone up by multiple times inflation.

 

[Mirai]

Ah no, the basic allowance stayed the same but people could afford to buy more. Electricity has gone up by multiple times inflation.

I will still respond that the basic allowance stretches far more these days than it did in 2003 and that was completely ignored by the expert in the article.

If you use your power mostly for lighting, i.e. safety, productivity, convenience and education, you're already winning.

When it comes to things like heating 50KWH is peanuts. Even 200KWH is peanuts. If you really want to heat your 3 room home you will need 600-800KWH.

 

[Swa]

I will still respond that the basic allowance stretches far more these days than it did in 2003 and that was completely ignored by the expert in the article.

If you use your power mostly for lighting, i.e. safety, productivity, convenience and education, you're already winning.

When it comes to things like heating 50KWH is peanuts. Even 200KWH is peanuts. If you really want to heat your 3 room home you will need 600-800KWH.

Few people use it just for lighting. Everyone does a bit of cooking and boils a kettle a few times a day. Then there's bathing as well. The 50kWh is to give some basic relief and was never intended to be all that people use. That basic relief doesn't stretch as far as it did.

 

[Mariner]

. And in fact other appliances may be a bit more energy efficient eg if people use an induction cooker.

A pensioner on SASSA gets a bit over R2000 a month. The affordability of induction stoves and the requisite cookware is way beyond their means.

 

[Mirai]

Few people use it just for lighting. Everyone does a bit of cooking and boils a kettle a few times a day. Then there's bathing as well. The 50kWh is to give some basic relief and was never intended to be all that people use. That basic relief doesn't stretch as far as it did.

Swa, there are always some things which are more fundamental then others.

We can all agree that light is important. Light at night allows people to be more secure, to be productive and allows children and adults the opportunity to improve themselves. Advances in artificial lightning had a tremendous effect on the development of the modern world. Even going from candles and paraffin lamps which are fire hazard and offer poor quality of light is meaningful.

50kWH does allow you to boil water quite a few times especially if you offset your use for lighting by using LED lamps which have become more affordable and in fact are the only available lamps one can get as CCFL are also being phased out.

The basic relief MOST DEFINITELY stretches FURTHER now than it did in 2003 when CCFL were just starting (and these are less efficient than LED) and news/entertainment was on the power hungry CRT TV, when now it's more on a tablet or smartphone and/or power efficient LED TV.

So we can say that basic water sanitation - i.e. boiling water to make it safe to drink is possible with the basic allowance, that basic ablution is possible, you can boil some water in a kettle and warm up a bucket of water to wash yourself in; lighting which allows for security and self improvement and finally basic water preparation eg to have clean water to give to your gastro baby with salt and sugar, i.e. to make rehydration solution. Some degree of clothing washing is also possible, if not in cold water than in warm water.

Cooking can still be done with gas or paraffin or more power efficient induction stove or microwave.

Again these are basics.

Otherwise we should speak off complete free electricity provision so that people can take long baths/showers, heat homes, cook food, run air conditioning and so on. At that point we are at a level which is not sustainable given our economic output and quality of governance.

 

[Mirai]

A pensioner on SASSA gets a bit over R2000 a month. The affordability of induction stoves and the requisite cookware is way beyond their means.

Often the said pensioner was not a pensioner their whole life or may have children and grandchildren who can help him or her a bit. But were stoves that much cheaper in say 2003, than now? With more Chinese imports, maybe that's not always the case.

At the end of the day you're saying - don't use more efficient means because of the higher upfront costs and give up.

Oh induction plate cooker -- R400.

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R800.

May as well just give up then, eh?

The problem is that there isn't enough to dish out to all these millions of people. The government has wrecked things for decades now and seems to persist in this phase of thinking. Things will only get worse. If you want to give everyone 300KW/H for free because they should all lead comfortable lives, that will not be sustainable.

South Africans don't produce. And what little they produce, cadres want a cut of leading to less productivity and a vicious downward spiral. More tax, less growth and more poverty. Perpetual motion does not exist.

 

[Mariner]

Often the said pensioner was not a pensioner their whole life or may have children and grandchildren who can help him or her a bit.

Many SASSA pensioners support family members on their meagre pension due to the massive unemployment crisis in SA. 60% Of the youth are officially unemployed. The figure is most likely higher.

But were stoves that much cheaper in say 2003, than now?

Paraffin stoves are the standard stoves used for cooking. Using an electric stove will eat into that 50 kW very quickly. In rural areas, wood is used as cooking fuel and some even use cardboard and plastic as cooking fuel.

At the end of the day you're saying - don't use more efficient means because of the higher upfront costs and give up.

Induction stoves and their cookware cost more than a SASSA pensioner's monthly grant. How do you expect them to buy induction stoves and cookware? No bank will give them a loan. The loan sharks in their area charge 100% interest as well.

 

[Swa]

Swa, there are always some things which are more fundamental then others.

We can all agree that light is important. Light at night allows people to be more secure, to be productive and allows children and adults the opportunity to improve themselves. Advances in artificial lightning had a tremendous effect on the development of the modern world. Even going from candles and paraffin lamps which are fire hazard and offer poor quality of light is meaningful.

50kWH does allow you to boil water quite a few times especially if you offset your use for lighting by using LED lamps which have become more affordable and in fact are the only available lamps one can get as CCFL are also being phased out.

The basic relief MOST DEFINITELY stretches FURTHER now than it did in 2003 when CCFL were just starting (and these are less efficient than LED) and news/entertainment was on the power hungry CRT TV, when now it's more on a tablet or smartphone and/or power efficient LED TV.

So we can say that basic water sanitation - i.e. boiling water to make it safe to drink is possible with the basic allowance, that basic ablution is possible, you can boil some water in a kettle and warm up a bucket of water to wash yourself in; lighting which allows for security and self improvement and finally basic water preparation eg to have clean water to give to your gastro baby with salt and sugar, i.e. to make rehydration solution. Some degree of clothing washing is also possible, if not in cold water than in warm water.

Cooking can still be done with gas or paraffin or more power efficient induction stove or microwave.

Again these are basics.

Otherwise we should speak off complete free electricity provision so that people can take long baths/showers, heat homes, cook food, run air conditioning and so on. At that point we are at a level which is not sustainable given our economic output and quality of governance.

You're comparing apples to pears. The 50kW was devised to provide basic relief. Back then it didn't matter so much as electricity was cheap. Now a grandmother on SASSA has to choose between buying electricity and food. Looking at efficiency and what you can do with 50kW rather grossly misses the point.

 

[phoneJunky]

Many SASSA pensioners support family members on their meagre pension due to the massive unemployment crisis in SA. 60% Of the youth are officially unemployed. The figure is most likely higher.



Paraffin stoves are the standard stoves used for cooking. Using an electric stove will eat into that 50 kW very quickly. In rural areas, wood is used as cooking fuel and some even use cardboard and plastic as cooking fuel.



Induction stoves and their cookware cost more than a SASSA pensioner's monthly grant. How do you expect them to buy induction stoves and cookware? No bank will give them a loan. The loan sharks in their area charge 100% interest as well.

I don't think Mirai is arguing that the people should be getting induction stoves etc, merely that someone saying that the limit setting in 2003 is outdated is not true.

50kWh is 50kWh and doesn't change with inflation. Everything has gotten more energy efficient and in actual fact - that 50kW goes further today than it did in 2003. So the needs that was being met with those allowances will be exceeded today.

If you want to increase the 50kWh to address other needs then that is a different discussion.

If you give 10 million households 350kWh of free electricity (as per the article) it will fall on the other 7.7 million to subsidise that. My two person household never used more than 150kWh (granted I could afford to have energy efficient appliances and solar geyser to make it this low) and it got as low as 55kWh per month when I use to live in it. I know this isn't the norm but 350kWh a month is a lot of electricity.

From a mybb article

Truth about electricity usage in South Africa

Eskom’s assertion that the average Homepower customer will be paying less after its proposed electricity tariff revamp is based on average electricity consumption over four times the actual amount.

mybroadband.co.za

That means the actual daily consumption per household in 2021 would have been around 5.68kWh to 6.58kWh.

So that works out to 200kWh on average per household per month in South Africa

Already 500000 of that 7.7 million have solar panels on their roofs. It is already worth it to have your own solar system as it is right now, if the above happens most people will just leave the utility as it is and then no one will be getting the FBE benefit.

We can't have our cake, and eat it too. Someone will have to pay and if you do the above it will encourage higher usage that we don't have the capacity for.

 

[phoneJunky]

You're comparing apples to pears. The 50kW was devised to provide basic relief. Back then it didn't matter so much as electricity was cheap. Now a grandmother on SASSA has to choose between buying electricity and food. Looking at efficiency and what you can do with 50kW rather grossly misses the point.

And that relief is either the same adjusted for (electricity price inflation) or better if any lights or appliances have been changed since 2003.

 

[Swa]

And that relief is either the same adjusted for (electricity price inflation) or better if any lights or appliances have been changed since 2003.

It isn't. It's nice when you don't have to choose between buying the electricity you need or food. But that is not the reality for a lot of people. They don't even want people on SASSA grants to pay banking fees so that every cent is at their disposal, that's how dire it is for some.

Now you want them to pay for electricity as well out of that. We can go on about how electricity usage has gotten more efficient, in some ways it has but in others it hasn't, but that misses the point entirely. The reasoning for the 50kW was never that people should live on that and only that, but that they could buy the rest. Now electricity has gotten unaffordable for most. It is no longer sufficient to cover just 50kW of a person's usage with the price they have to pay for the rest. That point is in the article.

Remember that most people cannot even afford the electricity saving measures you are used to. They'd have to save for months with money they need to live on. We don't subsidise what is affordable to people but what is unaffordable.

 

[one poster]

I've been getting FBE tokens when purchasing electricity through the FNB app (Eskom Direct, Cape Town). I've never applied for this and shouldn't qualify for it.

Apparently the municipality provides the indigent qualified list - also for Eskom direct customers. Maybe start with the muni to check what is up (probably finger trouble typing meter numbers).

 

[Lupus]

Often the said pensioner was not a pensioner their whole life or may have children and grandchildren who can help him or her a bit. But were stoves that much cheaper in say 2003, than now? With more Chinese imports, maybe that's not always the case.

At the end of the day you're saying - don't use more efficient means because of the higher upfront costs and give up.

Oh induction plate cooker -- R400.

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South Africa's leading online store. Fast, reliable delivery to your door. Many ways to pay. Shop anything you can imagine: TVs, laptops, cellphones, kitchen appliances, toys, books, beauty & more. Shop the mobile app anytime, anywhere.

www.takealot.com

Much better quality:

Takealot.com: Online Shopping | SA's leading online store

South Africa's leading online store. Fast, reliable delivery to your door. Many ways to pay. Shop anything you can imagine: TVs, laptops, cellphones, kitchen appliances, toys, books, beauty & more. Shop the mobile app anytime, anywhere.

www.takealot.com

R800.

May as well just give up then, eh?

The problem is that there isn't enough to dish out to all these millions of people. The government has wrecked things for decades now and seems to persist in this phase of thinking. Things will only get worse. If you want to give everyone 300KW/H for free because they should all lead comfortable lives, that will not be sustainable.

South Africans don't produce. And what little they produce, cadres want a cut of leading to less productivity and a vicious downward spiral. More tax, less growth and more poverty. Perpetual motion does not exist.

The pot for an induction stove isn't cheap either.

 

[SauRoNZA]

The pot for an induction stove isn't cheap either.

Heh? Cast iron is the cheapest material you will find for pots.

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Odds are cast iron is the most prevalent material amongst these folks to start with.

 

[Lupus]

Heh? Cast iron is the cheapest material you will find for pots.

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Odds are cast iron is the most prevalent material amongst these folks to start with.

Yeah for some reason I was thinking of those fancy ones but forgot you could use cast iron on them. Hopefully not to warped

 

[SauRoNZA]

Yeah for some reason I was thinking of those fancy ones but forgot you could use cast iron on them. Hopefully not to warped

Yeah it’s mostly just expensive when they need to fit baseplates on other materials to make them compatible.

If you manage to warp cast iron you are doing something defying the laws of physics and need to win a prize or something.

 

[Lupus]

Yeah it’s mostly just expensive when they need to fit baseplates on other materials to make them compatible.

If you manage to warp cast iron you are doing something defying the laws of physics and need to win a prize or something.

Touche ;-)

 

[Mariner]

50kWh is 50kWh and doesn't change with inflation. Everything has gotten more energy efficient and in actual fact - that 50kW goes further today than it did in 2003. So the needs that was being met with those allowances will be exceeded today.

That 50 kW still gives 50 kW. But the extra that had to be bought in 2003 to supply electricity for the rest of the month has become many times more expensive, while the SASSA pensioners' grant that could cover the extra in 2003 has not increased at the same pace. The SASSA pensioner is now having to choose between electricity or food.

The single light bulb used may be more efficient, but it doesn't help much as the electricity to run it has become more expensive, negating the efficiency savings.

Using an electric heater in winter in houses that are thermally inefficient with tin roofs and no ceilings is out of the
question. In small towns with high unemployment and many SASSA grant dependents, the towns' trees are being ring barked at night to cause them to die and are then chopped down for fuel.

If you give 10 million households 350kWh of free electricity (as per the article) it will fall on the other 7.7 million to subsidise that. My two person household never used more than 150kWh (granted I could afford to have energy efficient appliances and solar geyser to make it this low) and it got as low as 55kWh per month when I use to live in it. I know this isn't the norm but 350kWh a month is a lot of electricity.

350 kW is about standard for a two person household without solar power. I use that amount per month, running the geyser for just 1 hour a day. Expecting SASSA householders to afford the capital outlay for a solar system to save electricity is a bit of a reach. They are already having to choose between clothing, electricity, essentials and food.

Heh? Cast iron is the cheapest material you will find for pots.

The three legged potjie used by the indigent to cook pap over a fire cannot be used on an induction stove. Most cookware used by the indigent is the aluminium pot, which cannot be used on an induction stove. Using an induction stove requires education too. Heating a flat bottomed cast iron pot too rapidly on an induction stove will cause it to crack. Many of the indigent pensioners are illiterate.