Free basic electricity problems in South Africa

[porchrat]

Bit of a necro, but didn't want to start a new thread.

For the past two months I've been getting FBE tokens when purchasing electricity through the FNB app (Eskom Direct, Cape Town). I've never applied for this and shouldn't qualify for it.

Anyone else been seeing this? I'd much rather have this go to some household that actually needs it but it's tied to my meter number.

I had FBE for a while when I was renting. Was a very middle class area, yet still I got FBE because we fell within the area of a lower income area on the other side of a big hill. I just used the FBE and shut my mouth. The system is dumb. Another area near yours probably qualifies for the FBE so now you do too.

 

[Mariner]

I had FBE for a while when I was renting. Was a very middle class area, yet still I got FBE because we fell within the area of a lower income area on the other side of a big hill. I just used the FBE and shut my mouth. The system is dumb. Another area near yours probably qualifies for the FBE so now you do too.

FBE is not dependant on the area or size of the property. If the resident is below the indigent threshold and passes the means test, they will receive FBE,, 6kl water for free and reduced rates and taxes. There are people who own huge houses who are classed as indigent as they have no income at all except for their SASSA pensioner grant.

Pensioners have certain protections under the Older Persons Act as well. They cannot just be evicted from a home they own because they cannot pay.

 

[DrJohnZoidberg]

FBE is not dependant on the area or size of the property. If the resident is below the indigent threshold and passes the means test, they will receive FBE,, 6kl water for free and reduced rates and taxes. There are people who own huge houses who are classed as indigent as they have no income at all except for their SASSA pensioner grant.

Pensioners have certain protections under the Older Persons Act as well. They cannot just be evicted from a home they own because they cannot pay.

Ah, this might be it. I have two SASSA pensioners under the roof but the property is in my name.

Guess I'll just leave it then in case I get hit by a bus they'll have some power

 

[porchrat]

FBE is not dependant on the area or size of the property. If the resident is below the indigent threshold and passes the means test, they will receive FBE,, 6kl water for free and reduced rates and taxes. There are people who own huge houses who are classed as indigent as they have no income at all except for their SASSA pensioner grant.

Pensioners have certain protections under the Older Persons Act as well. They cannot just be evicted from a home they own because they cannot pay.

It could be. I was renting from a couple that owned it and they were pensioners.

 

[Swa]

FBE is not dependant on the area or size of the property. If the resident is below the indigent threshold and passes the means test, they will receive FBE,, 6kl water for free and reduced rates and taxes. There are people who own huge houses who are classed as indigent as they have no income at all except for their SASSA pensioner grant.

Pensioners have certain protections under the Older Persons Act as well. They cannot just be evicted from a home they own because they cannot pay.

It depends on the muni. Many simply don't bother and class it by area. Then then are those like Ekurhuleni which give it by tariff and the 5kl water is based on your property being valued under R750k. You could be Johan Rupert and still get both.

 

[SauRoNZA]

The three legged potjie used by the indigent to cook pap over a fire cannot be used on an induction stove. Most cookware used by the indigent is the aluminium pot, which cannot be used on an induction stove. Using an induction stove requires education too. Heating a flat bottomed cast iron pot too rapidly on an induction stove will cause it to crack. Many of the indigent pensioners are illiterate.

Yes it also can't be used on any other electrical means of cooking so it's completely irrelevant, and even on gas you'll have a tricky time heating a potjie properly.

Cast Iron cracking from rapid heating while possible is also somewhat of an urban legend in how rare it really is for that to happen. On the flipside pouring cold water onto a scorching hot cast iron is more likely to do something....yet this is done all the time with rarely a negative result.

Source : I cook with both cast iron and induction on the regular with zero ****s given.

 

[Adeptus Mechanicus]

Ah, this might be it. I have two SASSA pensioners under the roof but the property is in my name.

Guess I'll just leave it then in case I get hit by a bus they'll have some power

As far as I recall from my time working on pre-payment systems Eskom identifies FBE qualifying premises geographically.

i.e. If your premise plots within the boundary of the FBE area the associated meter is then automatically vended the free 50kwh monthly.

Note, there are also common issues where your actual premise is located outside of this boundary BUT the meter is mislinked to a premise that does, in which case you receive the FBE.

I doubt your situation has anything to do with who is staying there.

 

[Mariner]

It could be. I was renting from a couple that owned it and they were pensioners.

Owning a house or car does not disqualify a pensioner from receiving the SASSA grant. Neither does renting the home out:

SASSA Old Age Grant Eligibility Requirements​

SASSA Old Age Grant has particular requirements that every applicant must satisfy to apply for the grant successfully. They have strict requirements to ensure only those who genuinely need assistance receive it. The following are the criteria that every individual must satisfy before applying:

• You must be a South African citizen, permanent resident, or refugee.
• The applicant must reside in South Africa.
• You must be 60 years old or older.
• The applicant must not reside in a state institution (such as a rehabilitation center or state old age home).
• Applicants must not be receiving any other social grant for themselves.
• You and your spouse must meet the means test requirement.
• The applicant must not earn more than R172,560 if you are married or R86,280 if you are single.
• Additionally, you must not possess assets exceeding R2,455,200 if you are married or R2,227,600 if you are single.

I doubt your situation has anything to do with who is staying there.

Municipalities have criteria to qualify for indigent status. Municipalities determine who qualifies to receive the 50kWh per month of free basic electricity using the qualifying criteria outlined in their respective indigent policies.

Free Basic Electricity - Distribution

Are you battling to afford electricity for your home?

www.eskom.co.za

Free basic municipal services are services provided at no charge by the Government to poor households. The services currently include water and electricity. These services are provided by municipalities and include a minimum amount of electricity, water and sanitation that is sufficient to cater for the basic needs of a poor household.

Only indigent households qualify for free basic services. Municipalities subject all applications to means tests to determine whether households meet the criteria set by the municipality to qualify for indigent status. Municipalities determine their own categories of subsidies. In some municipalities, households qualify for 100% subsidies while other qualify for less that 100% depending on the criteria set.

How do I access free basic municipal services? | South African Government

Free basic municipal services are services provided at no charge by the Government to poor households. The services currently include water and electricity. These services are provided by municipalities and include a minimum amount of electricity, water and sanitation that is sufficient to cater...

www.gov.za

 

[DrJohnZoidberg]

As far as I recall from my time working on pre-payment systems Eskom identifies FBE qualifying premises geographically.

I think somebody maybe made an error somewhere then, the house is in quite an affluent area so not sure how this would have happened.

Next time I'm up at the municipal office I pop in and ask them.

 

[Mariner]

I think somebody maybe made an error somewhere then, the house is in quite an affluent area so not sure how this would have happened.

Next time I'm up at the municipal office I pop in and ask them.

The people who own or rent the home may be indigent. They would then qualify for FBE if the home is not worth more than:

• The applicant must not earn more than R172,560 if you are married or R86,280 if you are single.
• Additionally, you must not possess assets exceeding R2,455,200 if you are married or R2,227,600 if you are single.

 

[Adeptus Mechanicus]

Owning a house or car does not disqualify a pensioner from receiving the SASSA grant. Neither does renting the home out:

SASSA Old Age Grant Eligibility Requirements​

SASSA Old Age Grant has particular requirements that every applicant must satisfy to apply for the grant successfully. They have strict requirements to ensure only those who genuinely need assistance receive it. The following are the criteria that every individual must satisfy before applying:

• You must be a South African citizen, permanent resident, or refugee.
• The applicant must reside in South Africa.
• You must be 60 years old or older.
• The applicant must not reside in a state institution (such as a rehabilitation center or state old age home).
• Applicants must not be receiving any other social grant for themselves.
• You and your spouse must meet the means test requirement.
• The applicant must not earn more than R172,560 if you are married or R86,280 if you are single.
• Additionally, you must not possess assets exceeding R2,455,200 if you are married or R2,227,600 if you are single.

Municipalities have criteria to qualify for indigent status. Municipalities determine who qualifies to receive the 50kWh per month of free basic electricity using the qualifying criteria outlined in their respective indigent policies.

Free Basic Electricity - Distribution

Are you battling to afford electricity for your home?

www.eskom.co.za

Free basic municipal services are services provided at no charge by the Government to poor households. The services currently include water and electricity. These services are provided by municipalities and include a minimum amount of electricity, water and sanitation that is sufficient to cater for the basic needs of a poor household.

Only indigent households qualify for free basic services. Municipalities subject all applications to means tests to determine whether households meet the criteria set by the municipality to qualify for indigent status. Municipalities determine their own categories of subsidies. In some municipalities, households qualify for 100% subsidies while other qualify for less that 100% depending on the criteria set.

How do I access free basic municipal services? | South African Government

Free basic municipal services are services provided at no charge by the Government to poor households. The services currently include water and electricity. These services are provided by municipalities and include a minimum amount of electricity, water and sanitation that is sufficient to cater...

www.gov.za

Maybe re-read what I wrote there instead of copy-pasting the qualifying criteria in response to my last sentence.

I was contracted to Eskom for many years during the implementation of their pre-paid systems incl. FBE configuration.

I know well the criteria AND how the systems are actually configured to identify customers at a premise level. It is not a perfect system and is open to issues due to internal supporting systems and data issues.

Hence my suggestion that if those under his roof are not registered as either the owners of the premise/meter they are not likely the cause of him receiving FBE.

 

[Mirai]

That 50 kW still gives 50 kW. But the extra that had to be bought in 2003 to supply electricity for the rest of the month has become many times more expensive, while the SASSA pensioners' grant that could cover the extra in 2003 has not increased at the same pace. The SASSA pensioner is now having to choose between electricity or food.

My friend, if 50KWh was considered the bare minimum in 2003, now with more efficient use, the same amount should at the very least still be considered a bare minimum.

You say pensioners choose between electricity and food. It's worse. They also choose between getting to the hospital or not getting there. They choose between clothing and no clothing. They choose between a roof over their head and one that leaks or none at all. There are many choices poor people have to make. But at least they get 50KWh which is worth more in 2025 (in money terms and in actual throughput) than it was in 2003.

The single light bulb used may be more efficient, but it doesn't help much as the electricity to run it has become more expensive, negating the efficiency savings.

It definitely helps because we could still be on incandescent if the developed world was like the ANC. Heck we'd still be on candles.

Using an electric heater in winter in houses that are thermally inefficient with tin roofs and no ceilings is out of the
question. In small towns with high unemployment and many SASSA grant dependents, the towns' trees are being ring barked at night to cause them to die and are then chopped down for fuel.

But if we could give everyone a 1000KWH per month then nobody would need to do that.

350 kW is about standard for a two person household without solar power. I use that amount per month, running the geyser for just 1 hour a day. Expecting SASSA householders to afford the capital outlay for a solar system to save electricity is a bit of a reach. They are already having to choose between clothing, electricity, essentials and food.

Nobody wants that. The solar that rich people have allows ESKOM to give free power to the poor.

The three legged potjie used by the indigent to cook pap over a fire cannot be used on an induction stove. Most cookware used by the indigent is the aluminium pot, which cannot be used on an induction stove. Using an induction stove requires education too. Heating a flat bottomed cast iron pot too rapidly on an induction stove will cause it to crack. Many of the indigent pensioners are illiterate.

They can buy a new pot then.

You're really treating people like trash. People are resourceful.

You're pointing to the poor but where and how do you want to buy free stuff for these people?

And what about clothes, housing, meds, cultlery, food, water, bedding, etc?

How do you want to pay for this? Please answer this because you're a nay-sayer.

Remember my point, if the developed world was like the ANC, we'd still be using incadescent bulbs, than that 50kWh would really not go very far at all.

 

[Mirai]

The poor are not stupid. I know a poor woman who hangs out with a man who is the father of her children but is otherwise mostly a drunk, in order to get his house after he dies. She is also simped by another man, with some means who spends money on her. Meanwhile she rents out a Wendy house to another indigent person in her backyard for R3000 per month.

 

[Mariner]

My friend, if 50KWh was considered the bare minimum in 2003, now with more efficient use, the same amount should at the very least still be considered a bare minimum.

Of course, 50 kW free is the same now as it was in 2003. However, the extra electricity to see them through the month which they need to buy now, which they had to buy in 2003 as well, is far more expensive now. Well above the inflation rate. That has negated any margin of efficiency newer appliances have.

Heck we'd still be on candles.

Many of the poor are back on candles. Have a look at the supermarkets like Shoprite, USave and spaza shops.

Nobody wants that. The solar that rich people have allows ESKOM to give free power to the poor.

Eskom power is becoming more expensive partly because they cannot bill enough to keep prices down due to solar. Municipalities also depend on the added tariffs to survive. It's a death spiral.

But if we could give everyone a 1000KWH per month then nobody would need to do that.

I'm not proposing that. I have no idea what the solution is. All I'm doing is illustrating the problems the poor are having.

They can buy a new pot then.

And starve for the next month because they can't afford to buy food to cook in their shiny new pot, never mind buy the electricity to heat it.

You're really treating people like trash. People are resourceful.

You're pointing to the poor but where and how do you want to buy free stuff for these people?

And what about clothes, housing, meds, cultlery, food, water, bedding, etc?

How do you want to pay for this? Please answer this because you're a nay-sayer.

Remember my point, if the developed world was like the ANC, we'd still be using incadescent bulbs, than that 50kWh would really not go very far at all.

People do not realise just how poor South Africa has become. Now wait for the US tariffs and AGOA repecussions to kick in.

Tell you what, why don't you show me a budget where all that can be afforded for just over R2000 a month? Are you aware that the plates these people use are repurposed margarine tubs?

 

[Mirai]

Of course, 50 kW free is the same now as it was in 2003. However, the extra electricity to see them through the month which they need to buy now, which they had to buy in 2003 as well, is far more expensive now. Well above the inflation rate. That has negated any margin of efficiency newer appliances have.

Irrelevant. Red herring.

Many of the poor are back on candles. Have a look at the supermarkets like Shoprite, USave and spaza shops.

And there will come a day when they won't even be able to afford that.

Eskom power is becoming more expensive partly because they cannot bill enough to keep prices down due to solar. Municipalities also depend on the added tariffs to survive. It's a death spiral.

No. ESKOM power is expensive because the whole country is mismanaged. You like to go wider in your scope when it comes to basic electric allowance and you and Swa speak of irrelevant things - i.e. red herring fallacy - but here you cherry pick why ESKOM sucks.

I'm not proposing that. I have no idea what the solution is. All I'm doing is illustrating the problems the poor are having.

Dude, we all know what problems the 'poor' suffer. It is highly arrogant of you to claim to speak for the poor.

You are stating that people are poor and that 50KWh is not enough because of the red herring fallacy.

The fact is that even in 2003 there were people who were too poor to avoid significant power. But 50KW/h was considered a basic allowance. Now with better efficiencies that 50Kw/h STRETCHES MUCH FURTHER.

And electricity is not all that expensive. One can buy a few KWh more if one really needs. Never mind that many people also have illegal connections of have purchased tokens from fraudulent vendors or they SHARE.

And starve for the next month because they can't afford to buy food to cook in their shiny new pot, never mind buy the electricity to heat it.

How many people in SA have starved to death?

People do not realise just how poor South Africa has become. Now wait for the US tariffs and AGOA repecussions to kick in.

Er no. It's you who doesn't realise.

Tell you what, why don't you show me a budget where all that can be afforded for just over R2000 a month? Are you aware that the plates these people use are repurposed margarine tubs?

The fact is that many people don't live on ONLY R2000 per month. They live on more or they share. I gave you an example of an UNEMPLOYED woman living in Guguletu, Cape Town. She is indigent but she gets by with two men and she rents a Wendy house out to another man. The house she stays in in Gugs belongs to the father of her kids. She stays with him because she suspects he won't live much longer (he likes to drink and is older) and she's making sure the house goes to her kids. At the same time she rents out to someone who can afford to pay R3000 or R4000 (can't remember which amount it was but it was at least R3K every month).



The fact is that investing in more energy efficient cooking WILL save you more money long term.

 

[TrueSeeker]

No such thing as "free" electricity.

Cheap electricity is a plausible concept. But...

A: Not while so much electricity is "free", and the maker of said electricity has to foot the bill (imagine that...)
B: If wherever you're buying your stuff from is paying more for electricity because you're paying less/nothing. Then you'll still pay for it through the things you buy.

In a nutshell. "Free" electricity is fake news. Like displacing the need for income taxes using tax revenue generated from trade tariffs. You'll never make the poor richer by finagling a way for them to pay less than others for the basics like electricity, water, petrol, etc. In the same economy. Where those things are concerned - Die wet van Transvaal - Is kak of betaal. And everybody will be far better off if they know what they're paying for upfront, instead of ending up cross-subsidising their own "discounts" via a million and one increases to their other expenditures. Oh... And once the system falls over, because of madness like that, then it'll always be kak en betaal. Double. COD.

 

[3WA]

I'd much rather have this go to some household that actually needs it but it's tied to my meter number.

Hi its me a needy individual please send me an electricity voucher each month to retain your karmic balance

 

[Mariner]

The fact is that investing in more energy efficient cooking WILL save you more money long term.

You've made up your mind about how the lower tiers of Maslow's hierarchy can live while living yourself on the higher tiers. I will not be pursuing this argument.

 

[Mirai]

You've made up your mind about how the lower tiers of Maslow's hierarchy can live while living yourself on the higher tiers. I will not be pursuing this argument.

Strawman and red herring.

 

[Benedict A55h0le not]

Strawman and red herring.

You keep saying that yet the points you make is not very relevant. People need more free units because they can`t afford electricity anymore. A few energy efficient light bulbs is fart in the ozone layer compared to a geyser. They still need to buy electricity, but now they can buy much less. A few energy efficient light bulbs is the red herring.