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Question of the Day: Will you be subscribing to the new Disney+ R49 streaming package?
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Roman4604
Executive Member
I'm sure most 'techie' inclined people would agree, however I dont think that applies to the majority ... comfort & ease of driving would count for more I believe.
you're right. VISTA & Office crash much faster than *NIX.
ah yes. The old "Me Microsoft. Me new and shiny. Me goooood!" story. There are other lines in that story like:
Me can't do that.
Me need service pack. Wiff hotfixes on the side!
Oh crap, hotfix broke me. Don't worry - M$ will fix again ... maybe.
No, you have to buy those applications. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
Me need hotfix. Do you feel lucky, punk ?
I think BMW would be highly insulted to be compared to Windows. Highly HIGHLY insulted. Tata too, for that matter.
As much as I bash M$, I use it myself. Why ? Corporate policy and games.
"A 'happy ending' is Microsoft and Telkom walking, hand-in-hand, into the sunset ... never to be seen again."
Me too! x64 version!
RoosTa
Expert Member
No need to flame a perfectly good oppinion.
Here's my take: Linux isn't as easy to use as Windows. It's been 'softened' for the general public. Windows does have it's issues, but I have to say that MS have done a decent job on WinXP compared to it's predecessors. Now Vista is looking snazzy, but is there a need to upgrade just for DirectX 10?
Linux on the otherhand, is like a race car. It's raw power in unpresidented to Windows (the family car), but you need a good race driver to keep it on the road.
The main reason why you have to pay for additional software in the MS world is that it's not free and community driven like Linux. Since Linux is free, they can always provide free software and therefor there is no commercial competition among the software vendors. MS have in the past tried to provide 'more' in their OS, but the world saw it as being anti-competitive. Hence all the lawsuits etc.
I think I told tibby dude about this a couple of months ago. I run kubuntu. Best move of my life. My desktop is superior to windows in every way except one. Gaming.
I keep a windows partition to game with. the rest it linux.
I keep a windows partition to game with. the rest it linux.
Running Kubuntu here (Dapper Drake).
Started on Slackware Linux in 1995 when the kernel was still around the 1.x mark IIRC. (x86 486 days)
Back in those days you had to hand select every package to install one at a time with yes, no, yes, yes, no ... (4 hours to install)
It really has come a long way since then!
Excellent platform if you're into :
- cross platform development
- web development
- database work (Oracle, PostgreSQL, MySQL, etc.)
- Internet, file and printing servers
- special tasks such as conversion and systems interfacing that need a solid scripting and shell environment
- GIS batch work with libraries like gdal and ogr
- General tasks that were mentioned in the article (e-mail, surfing, writing, spreadsheets,etc)
Cons :
No native DirectX support which means you can't play more than 95% of the games that come out these days. And no, Cedega doesn't even come close to native support.
This is by far one of the biggest issues and I wish someone with some big bucks like IBM would throw some money into it. Then again once DX10 is out we'd probably be back at square one. So dual boot is pretty essential for gamers.
I'm probably about 50% more productive in Linux that Windows and I've had zero malware, viruses or trojans in the last 5+ years.
I still manage to lock up XP with regular frequency when I run it - doesn't come close to Linux in that area no matter how stable people claim XP is.
If there is an app that I really need to run that only works on Windows or I need to test web site compatibility with Internet Exploder I just use VMWare Player to boot a virtual Windows XP system.
VMWare Player is free and you can install other OS's on it if you just write a simple little config file by hand and download a virtual disk image.
Started on Slackware Linux in 1995 when the kernel was still around the 1.x mark IIRC. (x86 486 days)
Back in those days you had to hand select every package to install one at a time with yes, no, yes, yes, no ... (4 hours to install)
It really has come a long way since then!
Excellent platform if you're into :
- cross platform development
- web development
- database work (Oracle, PostgreSQL, MySQL, etc.)
- Internet, file and printing servers
- special tasks such as conversion and systems interfacing that need a solid scripting and shell environment
- GIS batch work with libraries like gdal and ogr
- General tasks that were mentioned in the article (e-mail, surfing, writing, spreadsheets,etc)
Cons :
No native DirectX support which means you can't play more than 95% of the games that come out these days. And no, Cedega doesn't even come close to native support.
This is by far one of the biggest issues and I wish someone with some big bucks like IBM would throw some money into it. Then again once DX10 is out we'd probably be back at square one. So dual boot is pretty essential for gamers.
I'm probably about 50% more productive in Linux that Windows and I've had zero malware, viruses or trojans in the last 5+ years.
I still manage to lock up XP with regular frequency when I run it - doesn't come close to Linux in that area no matter how stable people claim XP is.
If there is an app that I really need to run that only works on Windows or I need to test web site compatibility with Internet Exploder I just use VMWare Player to boot a virtual Windows XP system.
VMWare Player is free and you can install other OS's on it if you just write a simple little config file by hand and download a virtual disk image.
Yep if you want to keep up with future gaming and HD media. A Recent Toms harware have tested the new Conroe Quad (4x4?) The end result was clearly shown that conroe quads, high resolution HDTV and graphic requirements met each other just at the right time as the Pentium D's and AMD's of yesterday will not be up to it!
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/09/10/four_cores_on_the_rampage/page14.html
Have you tried Ubuntu or Kubuntu since Dapper Drake? Not only do studies show its easier for a new user to learn linux than it is for them to learn windows, but EVERYTHING is easier. You are basicaly lying unless you believe the MS flyer you seem to be clutching to
My install on brand new hardware with some intense gaming hardware, required NO DRIVERS!!!! Everything, from the install to general use is easier than windows. A full install including partitioning and formating (a 160GB SATA drive) took no more than 10 minutes. This included the install of the OS. Since you boot up into a live CD I was able to check my email while the install was happening.
Windows doesnt have issues? Sheltered life?
- VIRUSES
- SPYWARE AND OTHER MALWARE
- TROJANS
- WORMS
- Whole OS Crashes
- The need to reboot every couple of days
- Serious memory leaks
- Bad bugtraq responses
The list is endless.
Vista is looking dull and boring compared to KDE 3.5 with a little XGL love... and KDE4 should release before Vista. Linux used to play "catch up" in the desktop environment, now its windows thats behind.
Linux on the otherhand, is like a race car. It's raw power in unpresidented to Windows (the family car), but you need a good race driver to keep it on the road.
Your opinions are outdated
Dude, they ARE anti competitive. They have being found guilty, and they carry on. They lie constantly. Either you are so well trained by your corporate watchdogs or you have a very simplified opinion. Im sorry to come across so strong at you, but you sound like a person who tried linux once, when it was still playing catch up. Did NOT have the abillity (to use your analogy) to drive well so gave it up.
I sincerely suspect you have not tried installing Ubuntu or Kubuntu (Dapper Drake and above), otherwise you would realise how absurd your comments are.
Kubuntu Dapper Drake is a better desktop than XP or Vista otherwise I would not be using it. I have being using Windows since 3.0 days, and a Microsoft product since DOS3. I only moved over to linux since the Dapper Drake release as a desktop because it IS a better desktop.
My media players are better, my interaction with the internet is simpler and faster, and everything runs so well. No matter how many times I have broken my OS (and yes, in linux there are a lot more ways to break your computer than in windows) and had to reinstall my desktop, my settings, right down to my bookmarks, are all there.
Installing programs is simpler, general use of the computer is quicker and more efficient, and with my XGL happyness, my desktop now looks cool (Imagine windows blinds but on ultra super steroids).
It is more stable and secure than my windows desktop ever was, and now programs like an "anti-virus" are foreign to me.
I can now also do more than I could with my windows box.
Technology moves on, prehaps you should stop reading the microsoft flyers, and move on as well.
Capdog
Wierd that, I was able to download it on telkom`s sat connection with 40% packet loss :/
Also, http://www.ubuntuforums.org is your friend. They have step by step how-to`s on just about anything and bunch of people willing to answer your simplest question. Very helpful bunch.
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RoosTa
Expert Member
@w1z4rd:
You've completely misunderstood my post. I am the 'race driver' - I really like the challenge of using Linux. But thats the reason why Linux is not for everyone. It's taken me almost over a month just to get Linux up and running the way I want it to. From newbie to 'average' user. With Windows this would have taken considerably less time.
With Windows everything is 'double click' and alot easier - no need for a console/terminal. Thats the bottom line.
I'm not FOR M$/Linux/MacOS - all I want it a decent Operating system that WORKS FOR ME. So far Windows has done all that for ME. I've tested the other waters in the past and it just didn't WORK for ME. Ubuntu has so far been decent enough to pass as a workstation replacement, but as a gaming platform Windows is still far superior.
Linux has alot of RAW power, infact I saw that just by browsing. Browsing is quicker on Linux than Windows. The other thing I liked about it, is that if I leave my GRPS idle, the connection hardly uses any additional bandwidth (like it shoudl be), unlike Windows.
Windows is an Apple and Linux is an Orange (here I go with the analogies again). Both have the same function of food. However, an apple you can bite right into, but an Orange you need to peel first before you get to the juicy bits
WRT: M$ company - Yes M$ is seen as anti-competitive when they try to add more 'features' into their OS. With Linux it's a free market so they can add any amount of 'features' to their distro without being anti-competitive. Thats why all distros come with tons of applications 'pre-installed'.
You've completely misunderstood my post. I am the 'race driver' - I really like the challenge of using Linux. But thats the reason why Linux is not for everyone. It's taken me almost over a month just to get Linux up and running the way I want it to. From newbie to 'average' user. With Windows this would have taken considerably less time.
Yes; (read a few posts back) I tried SuSE 9 as an OS replacement with not much success, however I did run it on an old P2 as a router/DHCP server/internet connection (ISDN). And more recently SuSE 10.1 - stuck on 1024x768@60Hz and could not get ATI drivers working. With ubuntu dapper Drake I'm finaly on a good run with ATI drivers and XGL/Compiz installed. And even running Doom 3! Though I still did have many problems installing it (SATA & PATA), then spent hours apon hours trawling through forum threads just to install applications and drivers. Here read up about it: http://www.prophecy.co.za/forums/showthread.php?t=27740
With Windows everything is 'double click' and alot easier - no need for a console/terminal. Thats the bottom line.
I'm not FOR M$/Linux/MacOS - all I want it a decent Operating system that WORKS FOR ME. So far Windows has done all that for ME. I've tested the other waters in the past and it just didn't WORK for ME. Ubuntu has so far been decent enough to pass as a workstation replacement, but as a gaming platform Windows is still far superior.
Linux has alot of RAW power, infact I saw that just by browsing. Browsing is quicker on Linux than Windows. The other thing I liked about it, is that if I leave my GRPS idle, the connection hardly uses any additional bandwidth (like it shoudl be), unlike Windows.
Windows is an Apple and Linux is an Orange (here I go with the analogies again). Both have the same function of food. However, an apple you can bite right into, but an Orange you need to peel first before you get to the juicy bits
WRT: M$ company - Yes M$ is seen as anti-competitive when they try to add more 'features' into their OS. With Linux it's a free market so they can add any amount of 'features' to their distro without being anti-competitive. Thats why all distros come with tons of applications 'pre-installed'.
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chiskop
Executive Member
Kubuntu FTW!
Hit the nail on the head there - only problem is most people have already learnt Windows and now think they *know* computers.
w1z4rd said:
Hit the nail on the head there - only problem is most people have already learnt Windows and now think they *know* computers.
Roman4604
Executive Member
Been perfectly stable for me.
Look each will have their own preference, me I like shiny. I also believe I'm a relatively 'power' Office user (Outlook, Word, Excel, PowerPoint & Visio), and OpenOffice falls way short for me.
Other ppl will have other focus' for which *nix is better suited.
Roman4604
Executive Member
Not sure how many ppl have the time or knowledge to perform 'XGL love', but just comparing default install type screenshots ...
Vista RC1: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/Windows_Vista_RC1_desktop.png
KDE 3.5: http://www.kde.org/screenshots/images/3.5/04-konqueror-multipurpose.png
KDE looks a little 'Mickey Mouse' to me ... and I'm sure the OSX guys will say both look 'Mickey Mouse' to them?
RoosTa
Expert Member
To be fair, installing XGL love was easier than installing the ati drivers. I did it all through the package manager.
And here are the results: http://compiz.blogspot.com/
Ubuntu's defualt on the other hand is actually very nice :
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7685&d=1143459277
And here are the results: http://compiz.blogspot.com/
Ubuntu's defualt on the other hand is actually very nice :
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=7685&d=1143459277
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Just to give you an idea what you can do with Ubuntu: I'm running the latest version on a Pentium 200 MMX with 96MB RAM. Luckily not my primary machine
, but works very nicely as a file/ftp/web server.BitRogue
Active Member
Ubuntu on my work laptop (most compatible with the hardware and actually a breeze to install/upgrade stuff through Synaptic - running full MP3 and video playback including WMVs)
Fedora Core 3 on my file server at home, running only a Celeron 333 with 64Mb RAM and a half terrabyte of storage - it started off life as an internet gateway by scheduling dial outs at callmore hours for my home LAN.
My main nit is that many vendors for corporate software dont support Linux, and unless you can find an open source alternative somewhere, you end up having to get fiddly with VMWare or Wine, or even dual booting.
I get a lot of kicks out of the desktop support guys coming round to install new drivers or software - it takes them a full minute to realise they're not working on Windows anymore, and then their gung-ho "Im the master of the desktop around here" attitude quickly shatters and they're totally stumped.
BTW - I understand that the PS3 is using a hybradized version of Linux as the OS. I could be wrong, but if it is true, this might be a big boost for companies to support Linux as a gaming platform, which has huge potential if only someone could get it seen as mainstream.
Fedora Core 3 on my file server at home, running only a Celeron 333 with 64Mb RAM and a half terrabyte of storage - it started off life as an internet gateway by scheduling dial outs at callmore hours for my home LAN.
My main nit is that many vendors for corporate software dont support Linux, and unless you can find an open source alternative somewhere, you end up having to get fiddly with VMWare or Wine, or even dual booting.
I get a lot of kicks out of the desktop support guys coming round to install new drivers or software - it takes them a full minute to realise they're not working on Windows anymore, and then their gung-ho "Im the master of the desktop around here" attitude quickly shatters and they're totally stumped.
BTW - I understand that the PS3 is using a hybradized version of Linux as the OS. I could be wrong, but if it is true, this might be a big boost for companies to support Linux as a gaming platform, which has huge potential if only someone could get it seen as mainstream.
redarrow
Expert Member
Hmm, there's more Linux users around here than I realized
I'm on Fedora Core 5...
Ubuntu is very good, (I have used Dapper Drake) my biggest annoyance with Ubuntu is the way it disables the root account by default... I don't really see any good reason to do that.. It's a bit of a "Windows mentality" that normal users can perform administrator tasks..
Something I always like to tell Windows users when they go on about Windows being better than Linux: A huge percentage of Linux users out there were once Windows users (myself included)... I'd like to meet a Windows user who was a Linux user ... (by "was a Linux user" I mean someone who used Linux for a substantial amount of time and then ditched it in favour of Windows)
I'm on Fedora Core 5...
Ubuntu is very good, (I have used Dapper Drake) my biggest annoyance with Ubuntu is the way it disables the root account by default... I don't really see any good reason to do that.. It's a bit of a "Windows mentality" that normal users can perform administrator tasks..
Something I always like to tell Windows users when they go on about Windows being better than Linux: A huge percentage of Linux users out there were once Windows users (myself included)... I'd like to meet a Windows user who was a Linux user
... (by "was a Linux user" I mean someone who used Linux for a substantial amount of time and then ditched it in favour of Windows)
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Which Linux distro do you use?Just for interest sake?
That's very subjective.I visited a friend staying outside CT with his grandparents(79 and 75) and they run a small business and their home PC is running Fedora Core 5 with Gnome.This old couple use this machine for all their business purposes (sending e-mails and faxes , creating invoices using open office, etc).
My mate of course setup for them , but that setting up was basically adding icons to the Gnome desktop and that all they needed.The extra is they didnt spend a cent buying any software, because they didnt have to