"Free" Vodacom Internet!

[vodacom3g]

v3g just btw, was it you who told the engineers at voda to close the flaw/hole or were you guys already preparing to close it?
why not give us some details of how this tragedy happen?

It was always known, from day one, (and discussed here on the forum) that in certain circumstances, we would not bill for data. We could have blocked it a long time ago, but that would have affected other (law-abiding!) customers.

So there never was a 'hole'. Btw, every byte that was used by these (ab)users was logged....

 

[Prometheus]

It was always known, from day one, (and discussed here on the forum) that in certain circumstances, we would not bill for data. We could have blocked it a long time ago, but that would have affected other (law-abiding!) customers.

Doesn't sound logical to me. Exactly how would it have affected the other customers that used vlive only for vlive? And the circumstances were never discussed so Vodacom hoped not too many people would use it.

 

[Soulcode]

It was always known, from day one, (and discussed here on the forum) that in certain circumstances, we would not bill for data. We could have blocked it a long time ago, but that would have affected other (law-abiding!) customers.

So there never was a 'hole'. Btw, every byte that was used by these (ab)users was logged....

Abusers? HAHAHAHAHAHA! How is your everyday using of the service abusing it? How can you prove it was "abuse"? Logged? LOL! Vodacom can't even implement PPDB, I call BS on them being able to log terabytes of data.

 

[freeek]

Acually everything is logged, weather you like it or not. What they can do with that logs is the question. In terms of legality and such. If you just bought a sim card from the corner shop, then what can they do?

Even telkom, for all those users who have stole other people's account, telkom stores every single account used on every single line.

 

[eagle-slayor]

i think this vlive free internet got vodacom many new customers...
if it came back i think vodacom would win from it..
v3g any word on this?

 

[Soulcode]

No proof.

 

[74466]

Well in the first place, voda has to pay for the internet so how can "the abusers" expect to get it for free?

BUT

in the secon place, voda knows bout the hole, and thus, could have stopped it a long time ago, BUT apparently they are making more money of the vlive portal in the form of sales than what they lose with the abusers. WHY else didnt they stop it a long time ago?

 

[bakersman]

Vodacom probably gets the data at R0.01 per mb. Then they rip us off @ R2 per mb. Don't you just love 3rd world logic?

 

[74466]

i think they pay like R60/GIG

 

[vodacom3g]

in the secon place, voda knows bout the hole, and thus, could have stopped it a long time ago, BUT apparently they are making more money of the vlive portal in the form of sales than what they lose with the abusers. WHY else didnt they stop it a long time ago?

Let me explain. (and you can take my word on this)

There are two APN's, most people use:

1) internet: This is used for all internet-based work and you pay your specific rate per Mb.

2) Vlive: This is used to browse and download stuff from the VLive portal. You don't pay for any data, only the stuff you actually buy.

The problem came in with handsets that work with a primary apn. Most phones are now configured with the VLive apn and the moment you go 'off-net' you should actually switch over to the internet apn. But many phones can't do this. To expect the bulk of users to do this manually would be unfair and would swamp the call-desk.

The correct resolution (from a network perspective) is to either:

1) Allow off-net browsing via VLive but to bill for it. This required specialised development which takes time.
2) Blanket block Vlive to go off-net and expect customers to switch apn's if they want to go off-net. This is very easy from a network perspective, but would be inconvenient for subscribers.

We decided to go with option one and allow off-net browsing. To be quite honest (and yes, we were very, very naive), we did not expect the kind of abuse that happened, with people setting up sim farms, etc. Or selling the information for personal gain.

So, the answer is very simple, to ensure as best possible experience for Vodacom subscribers, we decided to allow (a limited amount of) off-net browsing. I, for one, was all for it....won't make this mistake again.

The systems are now in place.

Soulcode, on the point of logging all usage. If your usage is not logged, how the heck do you get a bill every month. Or can ask for a detailed bill from 6 months ago.

Go figure.....IT-101......

 

[74466]

Let me explain. (and you can take my word on this)

There are two APN's, most people use:

1) internet: This is used for all internet-based work and you pay your specific rate per Mb.

2) Vlive: This is used to browse and download stuff from the VLive portal. You don't pay for any data, only the stuff you actually buy.

The problem came in with handsets that work with a primary apn. Most phones are now configured with the VLive apn and the moment you go 'off-net' you should actually switch over to the internet apn. But many phones can't do this. To expect the bulk of users to do this manually would be unfair and would swamp the call-desk.

The correct resolution (from a network perspective) is to either:

1) Allow off-net browsing via VLive but to bill for it. This required specialised development which takes time.
2) Blanket block Vlive to go off-net and expect customers to switch apn's if they want to go off-net. This is very easy from a network perspective, but would be inconvenient for subscribers.

We decided to go with option one and allow off-net browsing. To be quite honest (and yes, we were very, very naive), we did not expect the kind of abuse that happened, with people setting up sim farms, etc. Or selling the information for personal gain.

So, the answer is very simple, to ensure as best possible experience for Vodacom subscribers, we decided to allow (a limited amount of) off-net browsing. I, for one, was all for it....won't make this mistake again.

The systems are now in place.

Soulcode, on the point of logging all usage. If your usage is not logged, how the heck do you get a bill every month. Or can ask for a detailed bill from 6 months ago.

Go figure.....IT-101......

Okay, V3G just please dont take me up the wrong way here, i am not taking you on on any of this, I for one have manually switched my apn every time, using vlive for wap and opera mini, BUT as soon as i try to go on web via pc and connect with vlive the connection hangs, THAT reminds me to switch apns and it is a royal pain in the ass, and it is still that way, MY WAP on my v600 is still free tho, using vlive.

SO coming to the conclusion, what you just said was not valid (re switching aps automatically) because during this "free ride" period, we still had to switch aps everytime.

I cant see how voda could not roll back, and maybe delayed the launch of vlive portal untill the problem was sorted out, again, making me think that they make ALOT of money from downloads via vlive postal but thats just my few cents.
Yes, you did not expect the "hole" to be abused as it was, BUT why not stop the service once it was detected that iy is being abused like this?
In VC`s road to provide better service they in fact provided us with a worse service because of the abusers which meant slower, and worse service for all us paying subscribers.

 

[Prometheus]

Acually everything is logged, weather you like it or not. What they can do with that logs is the question. In terms of legality and such. If you just bought a sim card from the corner shop, then what can they do?

Even telkom, for all those users who have stole other people's account, telkom stores every single account used on every single line.

The problem enters in proving you used vlive for normal internet. The logs that are kept shows the apn you are using and the amount of data sent/received. The proxy might show the address connecting to in order to allow others to download the same files from the proxy, but does it know anything about the apn used and how far do the logs go back. They have to show that you used addresses outside the vlive portal at the time you were using the vlive apn.

I don't think they have all the information necessary to do that if they can't even bill ppdbs and make them work correctly. Vodafone does have the discretion to bill for excessive use of the vlive apn even if it was used only for the vlive portal. Vodafone's terms does not state how much is 'excessive' however. If Vodacom is going to do anything it would be against the real abusers who auto downloaded gigs a day and not against the few who used 1-2gigs a month as you can then still use the excuse that you were using only the vlive portal.

Okay, V3G just please dont take me up the wrong way here, i am not taking you on on any of this, I for one have manually switched my apn every time, using vlive for wap and opera mini, BUT as soon as i try to go on web via pc and connect with vlive the connection hangs, THAT reminds me to switch apns and it is a royal pain in the ass, and it is still that way, MY WAP on my v600 is still free tho, using vlive.

SO coming to the conclusion, what you just said was not valid (re switching aps automatically) because during this "free ride" period, we still had to switch aps everytime.

Maybe it had something to do with your browser.

I cant see how voda could not roll back, and maybe delayed the launch of vlive portal untill the problem was sorted out, again, making me think that they make ALOT of money from downloads via vlive postal but thats just my few cents.

If they lost money in the long run they would have stopped it.

Yes, you did not expect the "hole" to be abused as it was, BUT why not stop the service once it was detected that iy is being abused like this?
In VC`s road to provide better service they in fact provided us with a worse service because of the abusers which meant slower, and worse service for all us paying subscribers.

I disagree. On 3G the speed was almost always 40-48KB/s which is the max. If you used GPRS then you are talking about just plain crappy GPRS pure and simple.

 

[74466]

So we all believe that voda did not really take a loss on it???

OR they would have stopped it a long time ago.

Anyhow i agree with ic.... I would like v3g to get us some stats... HOW much data was used for free with the "hole" (calling it a hole, dont know what else to call it)...
how many gigs, or are we talking bout terrabytes???

 

[MrG]

So we all believe that voda did not really take a loss on it???

OR they would have stopped it a long time ago.

Anyhow i agree with ic.... I would like v3g to get us some stats... HOW much data was used for free with the "hole" (calling it a hole, dont know what else to call it)...
how many gigs, or are we talking bout terrabytes???

well keep in mind it was open since VodaFone started, and HSDPA was launched. You can imagine. You have a potential ?22 Million? Customers on Vodacom Network. Using data on Vlive

Most of them wouldnt know how to set it up, but you had the people that couldve used it. Most people I know only used about 200MB per month. They didnt have access at home, and simply used it for browsing.

 

[Prometheus]

So we all believe that voda did not really take a loss on it???

OR they would have stopped it a long time ago.

Anyhow i agree with ic.... I would like v3g to get us some stats... HOW much data was used for free with the "hole" (calling it a hole, dont know what else to call it)...
how many gigs, or are we talking bout terrabytes???

Not at the start no. But now with people now selling it and setting up sim farms I don't know. Maybe the reason they are only trying to stop it now. And with people downloading more than 1gig a day (what the hell are they using it for ) it's possible for a single user to have used terabytes.

Either way it was a hasty decision by Vodacom to implement it the way it was implemented.

 

[eagle-slayor]

i think this vlive free internet got vodacom many new customers...
if it came back i think vodacom would win from it..
v3g any word on this?

could u please comment on this v3g?
thanks

 

[bakersman]

Quick question. When my brother upgraded in july he had free internet(not through vlive apn, but through the internet apn) for about a month, and downloaded about 25gb before he started to get billed for the data. What's up with that?

 

[74466]

Not at the start no. But now with people now selling it and setting up sim farms I don't know. Maybe the reason they are only trying to stop it now. And with people downloading more than 1gig a day (what the hell are they using it for ) it's possible for a single user to have used terabytes.

Either way it was a hasty decision by Vodacom to implement it the way it was implemented.

What i meant is that we would like to see the numbers (total for all NON-ABUSERS not allowed to call em abusers ) on how much data was used since vlive was launched. Actually both, the numbers for the leeches and for paying customers, which would show us how much voda should be able to cut costs for the user while still makin a proffit (NOBODY is gonna bs me into believing they actually took a loss on data)

 

[bakersman]

They do yes, he received bills for all the phone calls he made, sms he sent. He is on family top-up. He downloaded quite a bit, and then only got charged per mb. It's strange because the same thing happened to 3 other friends of mine.
One upgraded in june, the other 2 in july. All on family top-up.

 

[Prometheus]

What i meant is that we would like to see the numbers (total for all NON-ABUSERS not allowed to call em abusers ) on how much data was used since vlive was launched. Actually both, the numbers for the leeches and for paying customers, which would show us how much voda should be able to cut costs for the user while still makin a proffit (NOBODY is gonna bs me into believing they actually took a loss on data)

Did I say anything to the contrary here? I never said they took a loss on data. I do know that some users use more data cost based than what they actually pay Vodacom and it's those users which are a problem. I actually loaded some airtime once in a while and used it up to pay for the cost of the vlive data so anyone calling me an abuser doesn't make me feel guilty. This was before Virgin however and if Vodacom stops the free vlive internet I wouldn't have any incentive to stay with them anymore. If only these companies were to charge a realistic price for data we wouldn't have this problem as they could then even charge for the vlive portal without making too many people angry. I don't expect this to happen in SA though.

Does your brother's retail service provider have his correct postal or email address and bank details...

I don't get what his postal/email address and bank details have to do with the data billing on his account.