FTTH Legal??

Mich7777

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1. If only Telkom/SNO may implement or nominate a 3rd party to install infrastructure (ie FTTH) in gated communities (no public roads being crossed) for voice, is it legal for an IT company nominated by the developer/hoa (home woners association) in a gated community to install a fibre network without Telkom's/SNO's pre-approval?

2. Is FTTH actually legal at all then? if so/not

3. How can IT companies legally under the new ECT act implement FTTH and then buy bulk services ie PRI or E1 from SNO/Telkom??
 
Mich7777, the industry is in such a utter mess at the moment that no-one really knows what's legal and what's illegal, who is supposed to be doing what when and where, and who has the right to do anything or not do anything. The only thing you can really count on is that, considering Telkom is the type of company who will pursue poor pensioners in old age homes (because the residents 'illegally' share telephone lines), you can be sure that they will stop at nothing to protect what's theirs (and even what's not theirs).

I would be very careful in laying out a lot of money on something that there is arguably disputed legal clarity on, and to add to this do not assume that ICASA is going to draw up appropriate regulations as envisioned in the ECA- i.e. the kinds of regulations that the rest of us would see as being 'obvious' (in light of the ECA) may not be so obvious to ICASA. Also remember that the minister reserves the right to 'change her mind' about govt policy, at any time, any place, without forewarning.

It's a sad sad state of affairs indeed.

Use it/don't use it - just my opinion.
 
.....and one more comment- if the laws are wrong, break them. Just be prepared to loose in the end, not because you are wrong, but rather because there isn't really a distinction between 'Telkom' and 'the law'. Not only are they the law themselves, but they also like to think they are the elected government of SA too, but that's a whole other discussion :(
 
mich

i hope to have a little clarity on this by the end of the week
 
But it is realy pathetic that 'clarification' is needed. If a law is published it needs to be understood by the 'general public'...IOW easy to read/understand.

btw,the SNO has a name now...Neotel ,YAY!
But Telkom is still 'law' i think, wonder what'll Neotel would be?
 
Thought anything was legal as long as it didn't cross public roads etc?
 
The problem is that if you intend delivering voice over a network, Telkom/SNO or a 3rd party appointed by them are the only one's that may install the actual fibre network - so once again they compete for FTTH for themselves

This is a problem for other service providers of FTTH because it literally excludes them from doing a FTTH deal in a residential estate, they have their fixed 3rd party guys and they tell clients its illegal for anyone else but them and their FTTH guys to do an installation.

Another thing, the whole installation is actually dependant on 1 PRI line from telkom which is required for local calls because the rest of the calls from the residents will be least cost routed or use VOIP.

So ... all the other services which you could run on the network ie security systems, video, data etc which is legal is negated because of local calls only.

The way I see it, if least cost routing was legal for local calls, i wouldnt even install a PRI and bypass Telkom completely where voice is concerned and then they have no legal standing.

If FTTH is installed at a Golf Estate, the golf 'company' owns the data lines, network etc because its not a section22 company they can make profit. If im wrong on this, can anyone please give me some advice.
 
Private networks may not cross a municipal boundary (ie public road), so where the roads are private (ie owned by the development) you can (excluding other legal issues) implement your own network. However, it now seems, as Telkom tells me, that where municipal services (ie water/electricity) is provided in the gated development this also qualifies as a municipal boundary (much like a road) , so if your fibre/copper etc runs "across" them it's illegal.

So....what if you're running physically parallel to the municpal boundary and not across it???
 
However, it now seems, as Telkom tells me, that where municipal services (ie water/electricity) is provided in the gated development this also qualifies as a municipal boundary (much like a road) , so if your fibre/copper etc runs "across" them it's illegal.
Nowadays the developer is often responsible for putting in the water and electrical supplies too. And their maintenance. So surely the community owns it.
 
the developer once installed can decide whether to hand the services back to the council because the Home owners assoc/developer dont want to get involved with billing/maintenance etc of the services. Water is tricky i think because that will be a basic service and will always be owned by the council (not entirely sure on that).
 
The only way for anybody to be able to do something good for this country, is if everybody stand together and just "ignore" silly laws like the "can't cross road" one.
 
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In many of the older complexes the muncipal responsibility literally ends at the front gate, thereafter all services become the responsibility of the body corp.

In essence here, is not a muncipal boundry though, as throwing a phone line over your wall to a neighbour consitutes an illegal activity.

This may apply in complexes as well, however, since the property is termed (common) and owned by the body corp. of which you are a member, technically you are remianing within property which you either own or are part owner of.

The problem here though is that when you plug your neighbour in, you've crossed a boundry, the question now....

does a transfer from you to common property to someone else consitute a violation?

well you have a holding in the common property and so does your neighbour, and thus is could be argued that at no point does it actualy cross a boundry where at least one person has holdings in at least two sections.

in essence, it's like throwing a cable over a wall in which you have holdings in both properties, you haven't broken the law because the cable remains in your property.

So what's wrong with the above though, the body corp. is providing a communications service that is essentially a PSTN within your complex and this is where a law is broken. My view, if their is no hookup to Telkom for calls and only data traverses with Telkom/SNO being used for the data portion then it's probably arguably legal, calls would probably be too if users could not connect directly in a point to point config.

D
 
mich
i hope to have a little clarity on this by the end of the week

Question to ICASA:
Why doesn't the ECA contain the word boundary and what is the significance of
this in the light of Act.96 which the ECA will replace - with specific reference to p.15
of the ECA ?
 
the way i see it, the new ECA is supposed to foster competition for all in the telecomms environment - i dont think its a PSTN license that is now required for FTTH but only a VANS class license.

Telkom just dont want to admit that we can do this - if you have a VANS license (under the new law) you can do it, but then they bring up the municipal boundries crap and bla bla.

Also, in a meeting with some Telkom guys last week they told me that I would be taking a huge risk to do FTTH without Telkom's backing because they will be one of the biggest providers for Video on Demand, and if I install a network thats not Telkom installed they wont give me access to V.O.D - they refuse to run their products on a network thats not theirs.

I must say, im impressed with all their counter arguments, they have loads of time to think out their next move
 
As far as i know a new act/precedent case repeals the previous law in its entirety as from the date of inception. So if the new act doesnt contain the word boundary then it wont apply??? Not sure. Will the courts use previous case law to interpret the wording of new law??

Debbie2 mentioned in another post about 'retrospectivity' ie networks installed illegally before the new ECA - would these networks be judged in accordance with the old law or the new??
 
As far as i know, the old law is finished, it cannot be reffered to. All previous cases i wold assume would be reevaluated in terms of the new act. Correct me if im wrong
 
Below is an example of the I have been posting about under the
Fixed wired forum and what mitch7777 is refering to :
http://www.blairatholl.co.za/theestate.htm
"...Horse mounted roving guards will compliment the rural feel and enhance security. After long negotiations with Telkom we will be implementing a fibre point-to-point telecommunication backbone in the estate which will provide fibre optic cabling to every homestead within the Estate. This will be one of the first "SMART VILLAGES" in the world."

Blairatholl and seemingly everybody else in South-Africa have a misconception of the law. There is nothing to discuss with Telkom when laying wiring to anyplace in South-Africa. For the record: Icasa is the regulator and only they can take action against any network - not Telkom.
Telkom can neither provide nor deny permission as long as you don't resell
their data.
 
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