FTTH Legal??

as far as i know, the issue here is not reselling data but moreso the voice component. The law states that only Telkom/SNO or a 3rd party appointed by them (ie Smart villages as the 3rd party at blaior athol) can install the actual fibre backbone in the estate when voice is running on the network they are not saying that service providers cannot put in switches routers pbx's etc to provide the data etc services, as long as we are transparent about billing voice and only a reasonable admin fee is charged.

The problem is, service providers want to install their own fibre backbone according to the specifications of the equipment type being used ie GPON or Active FTTH - so that the service provider owns the customer and not Telkom - again.

What service providers propose is this:

1. A Passive or active fibre backbone.
2. Providing IP security in the home
3. Water & Electricity metering
4. E1 line (providing a dedicated 64K per home) - music servers etc etc

Above is all legal with the right license - this is the problem -

To provide voice, we propose a similar data line (PRI) for local calls (it is illegal to Least cost route local calls) all other calls national, cellular, international are all LCR'd or VOIP'd (apologies for my dis/use of acronyms)

So....the entire legality of FTTH rests on a single PRI line implemented for voice

I may still be wrong, who knows
 
But, did the Dept of Comms not declare VoIP data, so that it could become legal for VANs to carry internationally?

VoIP (national or international) is defiantely legal, so is connecting VoIP to the public PTSN to Telkom???

Just a thought.
 
.... The law states that only Telkom/SNO or a 3rd party appointed by them (ie Smart villages as the 3rd party at blaior athol) can install the actual fibre backbone in the estate...

Above is all legal with the right license - this is the problem -
I may still be wrong, who knows

Mich p.15 of the ECA as discussed elsewhere deals with closed villages and residential
houses running FTTH(fiber to the house) crossing boundaries or not. Who has been confusing you
on these issues? Read p.15 or ask a Telecoms lawyer for an interpretation. Ask http://www.nicciferguson.com to explain to you in exact detail
how p.15 allows Icasa to eventually say 15years from now make some sort of ruling on FTTH but that until such a time you can run fiber
across the entire length of South-Africa just as long as you don't make a profit. (This ofcourse puts Que Incident in a predicament since they are making
a profit on their CCTV networks - o, boy John Welch probably can't wait for Icasa to order him to hunt them down. Que Incident has no vans license.
I have posted on Que incident elsewhere)

In the end after say 5years if Icasa actually gets around to this private fixed wired networks whatever they say or decree really will have zero effect because no court is going to order BlairAthol to ripup their fiber. Such can only physically be done by Icasa with a court order and police assitance. Just imagine the spectical of Icasa driving around on a bulldozer smashing down walls hunting down fiber and copper, ripping up pavements. :confused:
 
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In my interpretation, Chapter 3, Sections 6 and 7 is very clear, and would make FTTH illegal.

Such a network, would definately not be clasified as a 'private electronic communications network', and it also states that once capacity is resold that the Authority "may" prescribe terms & conditions. Given that point, the subsequent Section 7 *clearly* states no person may provide *any* service without a license.

The key here would be thus to find out what (if any) ICASA can except for you as far as a privately operated network goes inside something like a small holding.

What I find very interesting, is Chapter 6, Section 6.2 (e)... WISPs sticking to the low power tx rules, should be automatically excempted from ECA, and they are allowed to operate, and charge???
 
In my interpretation, Chapter 3, Sections 6 and 7 is very clear, and would make FTTH illegal.
The key here would be thus to find out what (if any) ICASA can except for you as far as a privately operated network goes inside something like a small holding.

"...like a small holding". And a small holding is defined by a municipal boundary.
The concept of 'crossing a boundary' doesn't exist on p.15 the section dealing with non-profit networks. p.15 says you may not for example start your own video streaming server and resell movies for commercial gain
inside or crossing your boundary over a LAN or DSLAM or whatever medium. We must abandon the concept of a 'boundary' until Icasa makes some sort of ruling concerning a boundary. But until such a time, savage your interpretation implies that all network topologies are illegal until Icasa declares them legal on a network for network basis. This interpretation taken to the extreme implies that even a Harddrive sending data between it's chips are illegal until Icasa declares it legal as it may do not must do.

Now what is the legal status then of Internet Cafe's? It seems that they need a license! Which is ofcourse ridiculous. Now here is the catch:
A person setting up a street "Internet Cafe" selling data accross the boundary is in the exact same position as selling data inside the boundary of the
shopping mall. So if Icasa obviously won't raid an Internet cafe then on what basis could they possibly make a fuss over people reselling Mweb's data
crossing a boundary - since the concept of a boundary doesn't exist anymore. The "boundary" is the not the issue but wether your network is non-profit
or not.
 
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why would anyone be a service provider if its not for profit??

You are in the same position as CHUBB security. They are streaming for commercial purposes CCTV footage over DIGINET lines from a customer to their premise. Technically they are in violation of the ECA They don't have
a license to provide a value added service.

The ISPS and the Telecoms lawyers frame the whole debate in
you terms of you dare not resell Telkom data. No, under the ECA no for-profit-data service nomatter where you get it from or where you are sending it or what type of service may be done without a license. Reselling Telkom data at cost price would thus be legal in terms of the ECA although it might
be a violation of the terms of service from Telkom in which case it would be a civil matter between you and Telkom.

Are you not glad mich7777 that Icasa can't prosecute you?

www.itweb.co.za had an article on the SKA telescope fiber link. They then quoted directly from the ECA instead of interpreting the ECA:".... no service may be provided without a license." But this refers to services delivered with a profit motive. The critical part about not-for-profit was left out thus creating the impression that no service at all may be presented - which is false. This is ofcourse deliberate, Itweb is owned by Naspers who also owns M-web and Multichoice. Naspers don't want 500 houses to linkup in a fixed wired network and purchase a 1000meg Internation Satellite link for R400 000 as explained elsewhere, because this will enable them to become a paperless Naspers and the next Multichoice. Isn't it strange that not a single article has appeared in the mainline press attempting to interpret the ECA. Do you see the conspiracy to prevent people from understanding the ECA?

p.34 Section 17H Icasa Amendment act:
(4)The court convicting a person of any offence referred to in subsection (3)(b) of this section may, in addition to any fine which it may impose in terms of subsection (1), declare any transmitters, apparatus and other equipment and any article, object or thing by means of which such offence was committed, to be forfeited to the Authorit Provided that such declaration must not be so made upon proof to the satisfaction of the court that such transmitter,apparatus,equipment,article,object or thing is not the property of the person so convicted and that,as regards such article,object or thing, the owner thereof was unable to prevent it from being used as a means to commit such offence.

This means that if CCTV firm, after obtaining your permission and planted Telephone poles in your garden to use such poles in a fashion "..integrally related to the network operations of the network owner" (p.28 Electronic Communications Act Section 6.2(c)) that is to stream CCTV from a distant premise to theirs, but instead used the pole in your garden to secretly sell Telkom internet to the person just besides you then you can't be held liable for such deception on the part of the CCTV firm. And neither can Icasa thus permanently confiscate any device or 'plant'(copper,fiber) taken from your premise which the CCTV firm,service provider used in violating the ECA.

A block of houses must designate a house as the service provider. Contracts will be signed that he will provide the service - which indeed he will. This will then completely obviate you from the ECA in the same manner that Andries Matthysen went after the Wi-Fi service providers and not the end users.

In other words instead of subscribing to a wireless ISP who does'nt have a VANS license you subscribe to a fixed wired ISP a hundred houses away from you who also does'nt have a VANS license. In both cases the end users are under no obligation to ascertain the status of the service provider. It remains the responsability of the service provider to comply not the end users.

Section 17G . p30 Icasa Amendmend Act on the role of an Inspector
.....Subsection 4 d) inspect any radio apparatus, studio, plant, transmitters, apparatus, 45 other equipment or other broadcasting, communications or postal service facilities on the premises.

...Subsection 4 (g) seize for further examination or safe custody any document or thing which has a bearing on the alleged non-compliance or other act referred to in section 17F on such premises.

....(5) (a) The warrant contemplated in subsection (4) 17G must identify the premises that may be entered and searched and specify which of the acts contemplated in subsection (2)(a) to (g) may be performed thereunder by the inspector to whom it is issued.

Which means Icasa must go to court and explain to the judge why they want to confiscate the copper hanging from the telephone poles. The court could either allow Icasa to Inspect(d) or confiscate(g) the wires.

For 500 houses they would need 500 warrants. Lets presume for arguments sake that they indeed to get 500 warrants for each premise. The residents has budgeted for such confiscation and have enough time to remove the copper from the remaining houses since Icasa can't target them all at the same time.

Our Constitution mandates that you need ONE WARRANT FOR ONE PREMISE. The Icasa Amendment Act states that an Inspector may seize plant- not destroy a Fiber optic cable, it may only seize the cable as evidence for a criminal trail. But if a fiber cable runs over 500 properties then Icasa needs 500 simultaneous warrants to enter 500 houses at the same time, because it must confiscate the Fiber intact! And 500 simultaneous warrants would be a violation of our constitution and a gross abuse of power.

Now lets presume that Icasa gets 50 houses TwistedPair suspended from the telephone poles. Since the copper is so cheap we just replace the copper the next day. Will Icasa now again get another 500 warrants??? This will make a farce of our judicial system and make the Judicial bench look ridiculous. No, the worst that can happen is a judge would allow Icasa to inspect, (Subsecion 4(d)p.30) in order to gather evidence for a criminal trial. But since Icasa knows Vusi won't prosecute anybody nor the service providing house , they would not even bother to obtain such a court order.

What Icasa is presently doing when they confiscate wireless gear is really just inflicting a financial loss on the relevant entity. That person has to get a court order to get the equipment back and has to pay lawyers etc. Icasa knows full well that no criminal prosecution will result. The whole point of Section 17G is to enable Icasa to gather evidence for a criminal trial not to obtain a monthly court order to swoop down on Waterkloof with 500 policeman so as to inflict monetary losses. The courts won't allow Icasa to use them for such a purpose.
 
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Got through to blairatholl

Got through to Blairatholl concerning this digital village thing and figured
out why it is that Telkom won't implement another Digital Village.

The blairatholl project was done under Telecoms Act. 96 in which the concept
of a boundary was made clear. Under the ECA this 'boundary' distinction
falls away. Thus there is no difference wether Telkom has a Digital Village
with a closed village or with a block of residential houses setting up their
own telephone exchange. Telkom maximises it's revenue by sending each
house it's individual bill in a residential street. If Telkom were to now
uder the ECA engage a closed village under their terms then Telkom will
have to do the same with a block of residential houses under their
terms since the concept of a 'boundary' doesn't exist anymore until Icasa
has held hearings on it and issues a directive. That is until, nobody can
force Icasa to hold public hearings on 'data crossing a boundary'. With the
ECA literally everything is up for negotiation and debate. It is in
contrast to Act.96 which simply decreed that data is not allowed to cross
boundaries. :)

The ECA can be summarised as:
Every non-profit network configuration either fixed wired or wireless crossing or residing inside a boundary is legal until Icasa declares it illegal
Or simply: Everything is legal until Icasa declares it illegal

What is the bottom line for http://www.blairatholl.co.za and
open streets building their own telephone exchanges ?

All it really bogs down to is will a court allow Icasa to cut down
private telephone poles with a chainsaw or not? Must their be a criminal
trial first before they can cut down the poles? I don't know. The
www.buys.co.za and www.nicciferguson.co.za telecoms lawyers obviously know but I doubt dominic will respond ... sigh ...

Equipment creating interference:
The ECA allows Icasa to get a court order to confiscate wireless equipment
creating interference for other users. But the principle really is that Icasa can confiscate anything that creates interference to other users.

Equipment not creating interference
a) Telephone exchange created in Blairatholl before ECA.
b) Telephone exchange created in FeatherBrook after ECA.
c) Exchange created by residential streets before the ECA.
(thus in violation of Act.96)
d) Exchanges created by residential streets after ECA.

Question:
What are the legal status of (a),(b),(c) and (d) in terms of the ECA
as of Nov 2006?
Answ:
They are exactly the same there is zero difference they are all subject
to only one rule: No services may be offered with a profit motive.

Lets say Icasa holds hearings 7years from now after finalising the VANS license conversions and other critical issues it must deal with in
terms of the ECA. The ECA mandates that Icasa must do certain things
and may do others after holding public hearings.

So lets presume Icasa holds hearings on non-profit community telephone exchanges in 2014 and decrees that from now on no community Telephone poles and copper may cross a boundary.

Will they now like with their powers to confiscate any Wi-fi device be
able to get a court order and cut down with a chainsaw 1km of community Telephone poles? Does the ECA actually give a couple of 'sprinkaan-beamptes' the power to make laws giving them the right to destroy property - without you being found guilty in a criminal trial first - after getting a court order in terms of laws they concocted?

Lets presume the NPA actually criminally prosecutes houses for setting up
community telephone poles after 2014 establishing a precedent that from now on Vusi Pikoli will enforce the banning of any network topology as decreed by Icasa. But Icasa can now hold thousands more hearings and since the NPA enforced their first directive they would have to enforce all subsequent rulings by Icasa

Lets presume for sake of argument that a year later after banning telephone
poles a different network topology gets banned by Icasa and this specific network topology is actually built into the walls and roads of Blairatholl.
Would Vusi Pikoli now criminally prosecute such a village? How could he
refuse if he enforced the previous Icasa ruling? If they are found guilty would Icasa now be able to get a bulldozer and destroy the perimeter, roads, golfcourse and houses?

If a closed village implementing a banned topology gets criminally convicted
then what? Would they still be allowed to carry on as usual? How many thousands of such cases would Icasa then be able to bring before the NPA and force themto hunt down networks since a precedent was established?
These are ofcourse hypothetical questions. But they are not ridiculous questions. It just shows how easy it was to write COMPLETE RUBBISH on p.15 of the ECA and hope nobody actually asks some pointed questions.

So if Icasa must have you found guilty first in a criminal trial before cutting
down the poles then we would be the untouchables and be able to openly mock Icasa and Telkom. Because the NPA will only become the Telephone pole investigative agency the day hell freezes over.:D

WHAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE?

Bottom line is that if ICASA can get a court order to rip-out the copper wire from under your house then we are stuffed.

IF Icasa cuts down a 1000 poles and rips out the copper from the backbone - we would be able to escalate the whole issue all the way to the Constitutional Court. If Icasa were to loose such a case they would have to pay for the destruction of property. It really comes down to money. If we combine our efforts we can fight this beast Icasa in the courts. Just look how http://www.nicciferguson.co.za managed to sabotage many Icasa's confiscation court orders.:) For Icasa to ripout Fiber and copper from under roads and houses would lead to a massive showdown between us the public and Icasa. It would be a fight that I doubt Icasa would even be willing to engage in. And would the courts actually give Icasa a warrant to enter 500 adjacent premises and destroy property worth hundreds of thousands of rands?

I discussed this with a top Icasa official who informed me that Icasa has indeed destroyed Communication towers in addition to confiscating the gear. Is this the truth? He refered me to the Aerosat vs. Icasa case. But all I recall was that they sealed the towers. Icasa didn't actually have the power to destroy property.

QUESTION TO LAWYERS: Has Icasa been able to physically cut down a tower with a blowtorch after Icasa repeatedly confiscated their Wi-Fi gear? If indeed then we have a serious problem on our hands with the telephone poles.

Power over broadband and electriciy
Lets look at another option. I plant 100 poles and provide electricity to each house. But I also deliver Broadband over powerlines
http://www.goal.co.za. If Icasa cuts down the poles then what about power delivery to each house? This would violate their human
rights since other laws state that each person has a basic human right of access to power.
 
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http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/telecoms/2006/0612081030.asp?S=Legal View&A=LEG&O=FRGN The view of http:/www.ispa.org.za - Ant Brookes "...According to the ECA Act, individuals or companies that wish to own internal telecoms networks, such as those found in multi-dwelling residential properties, need PTN licences to operate."

O man finally! Ant I thought Ispa would never say anything about the ECA.
What you are saying there is true: For networks with a profit motive
is the part you forgot to mention. You don't need any license if your LAN
goes from flat to flat with no profit motive. What you lot are scheming now for is to rectify the loophole that Telecoms Act.96 left concerning boundaries.

Now if only you would comment on p.28 of the ECA concerning the
not-for profit part. And mr. Brookes please quote the relevant passage of the
law and how it relates to p.28. :) Don't just say according to the ECA.
The ECA is a complex law that needs to be carefully quoted so we don't
decieve people.


"...It has also recently emerged that Telkom refuses to sell its services to unlicensed entities, as it fears it would be in breach of its own licence by doing so."
Ant I will give you the benefit of the doubt on this one. I have posted above as to what I perceive to be the real reason why Telkom is not engageing closed
villages - they would have to do the same for open streets. Please sir "recently emerged" doesn't mean much. Quote the exact paragraphs in the ACT as
to exactly how you got to this conclusion.
 
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http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/telecoms/2006/0612081030.asp?S=Legal View&A=LEG&O=FRGN The view of http:/www.ispa.org.za - Ant Brookes "...According to the ECA Act, individuals or companies that wish to own internal telecoms networks, such as those found in multi-dwelling residential properties, need PTN licences to operate."

Is it just my impression, or does everyone just assume that someone else has read and understands the EC Act? I'm not sure where Ant gets this interpretation. The term "PTN" does not appear in the EC Act. The concept was repealed along with the rest of the Telecommunications Act (except for the Transnet and Eskom PTNs, which are covered in other legislation, and were always different anyway). Presumably, all other existing PTNs are to be converted as envisaged by the EC Act, as and when ICASA gets around to it, but to what?

What the EC Act does say (in section 6) is:
"...the Authority may prescribe the type of ... services that may be provided ... without a licence" and
"...may include... private electronic communications networks used principally for or integrally related to the internal operations of the network owner"

In other words, broadly, the original concept of a PTN in the old Act (not everyone's own interpretation) will be replaced by licence exemption (i.e. NO LICENCE) in the new Act, provided ICASA issues some regulations.

The only exception to this rule is the additional clause:
"Except that where the private electronic communications networks' additional capacity is resold, the Authority may prescribe terms and conditions for such resale."

In other words, to deal with the anomalous concept of resale that was previously added to the concept of PTN by the Minister, ICASA is going to have to create a special kind of licence for people who want to build networks and sell services on them (since you clearly cannot do this without some kind of licence, using the basic logic in the EC Act). This will probably be much like any other electronic communications network service licence, but is just as likely to be limited to a small geographic area to avoid breaching other principles in the Act.
 
And thus we must now bring this whole discussion to some sort of conclusion: What is the bottomline?
Simply this: Findout from a Judge himself if he would ever give Icasa the right to ripout the fiber and copper from our underground ducting. That's it.
There is nothing else to this whole issue that we need to concern ourselves with. The judge - not Icasa- will allow Icasa to either INSPECT or CONFISCATE to present the wires as evidence for a criminal trial. If they can physically confiscate the wires then building our own exchanges won't work. Criminal prosecution won't ever happen - it's the financial loss that is the issue. So we really need to bring this thing now the point of brutal confrontation with Icasa themselves: BUILD THE EXCHANGE AND FIND OUT FIRSTHAND WHAT HAPPENS!

It's that simple. If I had R55000 available I would personally build an exchange for free just to find out exactly what will happen. I just don't have the money.
Connecting two houses underground, won't prove anything. It must be a whole street where they openly resell commercial Internet data with Icasa dressed in a Tokelosh suit on the pavement. There is just nothing so hilarious then mocking people who takes themselves extremely serious and makes grave and solemn declerations of what you can and can't do in your own backyard. This exchange must be advertised and ICASA mocked to the point of absolute banality. They have been threatening us for so long now that we must call their bluff! What do you say Ant? Is it really illegal - well then why don't we find out! Or how about this forum finances a project like this. Or are you people chicken? Just think about it. For R55000 we can find out just how ferocious Icasa really is! And we can settle this issue once and for all.
 
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I was really surprised to see this:

So what
http://www.ispa.org.za Ant Brookes is scheming for now is to scare and confuse people into not planting telephone poles until Icasa makes some sort of ruling.
They must having a lot of golf outings with Icasa officials.

My surprise is due to the fact that captainwifi generally has very smart things to say and does not often catch his cape on telephone poles. I cannot comment if he wears his underwear on the inside or outside of his superhero suit (maybe he will tell us).

Maybe the superhero moniker has gone to his head and he imagines Ant as a villain with a lair (of course a villain must have a lair) where he entertains ICASA officials.

I think the truth is unfortunately a lot less exciting:

1) All operators with current licences were licenced under the 1996 Act
2) those licences were written under the 1996 Act.
3) The 1996 Act has been repealed but the licences remain until ICASA convert them (could be as long as January 2009). In addition ALL Regulations under the 1996 Act continue to exist under the ECA until repealed and/or replaced.
4) ICASA has a huge amount of work to do, inlcuding:
4.1) convert existing licences;
4.2) define the rights associated with new licences;
4.3) define which services will be class licenced and which will be licence exempt;
4.4) give some clarity on what is meant by "not for profit basis" in Section 6(2)(a). PLEASE NOTE 6(2) says that not for profit networks MAY be licence exempt and NOT will be or must be licence exempt
4.5)
.

My personal view on estates is that they can set-up the equipment inside their boundries - they just cannot COMPEL an operator to connect. Telkom has a real concern that connecting a PIR to the boundry of an estate will breach their current licence. Now this may suit their competitive objectives as well :sick: but I will not comment as to whether it is regulatory compliance or competition that is causing the refusal to supply the service being requested by the estates.

So we choose - lobby ICASA OR wait and see what ICASA comes up with.

I prefer the former.
 
Umm

Please have a closer look at Section 6 of the ECA. Please note ICASA MAY exempt these services, which MAY inlcude private networks. You seem to have the impression that this WILL happen rather than MAY happen. Section 6 in full (with emphasis addded) says:

Licence exemption
6. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the Authority may prescribe the—
(a) type of electronic communications services that may be provided;
(b) type of electronic communications networks that may be operated;
(c) type of electronic communications network services that may be provided; and
(d) radio frequency spectrum that may be used, without a licence.
(2) The electronic communications services, electronic communications networks, electronic communications network services and radio frequency spectrum contemplated in subsection (1) may include, but are not limited to—
(a) electronic communications services provided on a not-for-profit basis;
(b) electronic communications services that are provided by resellers;
(c) private electronic communications networks used principally for or integrally related to the internal operations of the network owner. Except that where the private electronic communications networks’ additional capacity is resold, the Authority may prescribe terms and conditions for such resale;
(d) small electronic communications networks such as local area networks;
(e) uses of the radio frequency spectrum that were permitted without a licence prior to the coming into force of this Act and uses of the radio frequency spectrum that the Authority finds would not cause harmful interference with radio frequency spectrum licensees such as low power uses; and
(f) such other services considered to be exempted, as may be prescribed by the Authority.
(3) Any regulations prescribed by the Authority in terms of this section may contain terms and conditions applicable to the exempted electronic communications services, electronic communications networks, electronic communications network services andradio frequency spectrum use and declare contravention of the regulation an offence, subject to section17H of the ICASA Act.

Prohibition of provision of service without licence
7. Except for services exempted in terms of section 6, no person may provide any service without a licence.

Now for the interesting part, Section 4(3) says:

(3) Any regulation made by the Authority in terms of subsection (1) may declare a contravention of that regulation to be an offence, provided that any such regulation must specify the penalty that may be imposed in respect of such contravention taking into account section 17H of the ICASA Act

No such Regulations have been promulgated so no offences exist at present :D and

Offences and penalties
74. (1) Any natural person, juristic person or licensee who contravenes or fails to comply with any licence condition contained in the licence, is guilty of an offence and is liable on conviction to the penalties set out in subsection (2).
(2) Any natural person, juristic person or licensee who contravenes or fails to
materially comply with any specific terms and conditions contained in the licence relating to construction or placing into service of electronic communications facilities or electronic communications networks, is guilty of an offence and upon conviction, such natural person, juristic person or licensee must outsource—
(a) the construction; or
(b) placing into service,
of the electronic communications facilities or electronic communications networks, or parts thereof, that are the subject of the contravention or failure to comply, by entering into one or more agreements with a third-party engaging such person to build or operate the electronic communications facilities or electronic communications networks in accordance with the specific terms and conditions contained in the licence.
.................

So- if you have a licence there are possible consequences BUT if you don't have a licence - no consequences until ICASA Regulates consequences!

NICE
 
Quick request - please refer by Section number and not page - many of us are using different versions of the Act - so it makes it difficult to follow which Section you are referring to.

Thanks
 
*..... there isn't really a distinction between 'Telkom' and 'the law'. Not only are they the law themselves, but they also like to think they are the elected government of SA too, but that's a whole other discussion*

:sick: :sick: :sick:
 
=== Telecoms lawyer Janet MacKenzie Cliffe Dekker's telecoms attorney ===
Letter to henk78
http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/archive/index.php/t-38375.html
The current regulations on the use of the 2.4 GHZ spectrum provide that where connections are established across boundaries then the facilities for such connections must be obtained from Telkom and the operation of such networks must be licensed. These regulatons also specify the
power outputs associated with the use of the 2.4 GHZ spectrum and further provide that there must be no interference to spread spectrum.
Once the ECB is promulgated, the use of the 2.4 GHZ spectrum across boundaries and in Wi-Fi hotspots in public spaces will not have to be licensed. However, users will have to adhere to all of the other requirements detailed in existing regulations until such time as they are either amended or repealed. In addition, Telkom’s monopoly over the provision of facilities used for such networks will no longer continue under the ECB and other communications network service licensees will be able to provide these facilities.
Kind regards
Telecoms lawyer Janet MacKenzie
-----------------------------

My previous posts on the ECA was 90%right and 10% wrong. The confusion is that the concept of boundary and of providing a service and the distiction between the two are not made clear in the ECA. All service provisioning either inside a boundary or crossing it are illegal without a license. This includes Not-for-profit ''services''. Notice it doesn't say you are not allowed to send data across boundaries via a certain network topology. What is legal is for a person to trench from wall to wall and lay CableFlex under it across all boundaries and connect every house to the cableing. This is where the ECA is a huge improvement on Act.96: It doesn't ban data or c ableing from crossing boundaries. The word boundary doesn't even exist in Chapter 3 section 6,7 dealing with services that may be provided. The ECA says that Icasa may excempt Not-for-profit data if they so desire. But until such a time no non-for-profit or any other service may be provided to anybody inside or crossing a boundary. Thus CyberCAfes, Closed villages and multi-tenent buildings providing a service either non-profit or commercial are illegal.

Furthermore the fact they weren't illegal under Act.96 makes no difference, they will now come under the Icasa powers to regulate them.

So lets be clear about this:
1. All Closed villages and Multi-tennant buildings providing
any service from a network to all the other residents is illegal without a license.
2. What is not illegal is the existing cabling connecting all the tennants and
houses to a central network since the concept of a boundary is undefined at the moment.
3. And for the same reason it is not illegal for you to run cabling under all the houses. In other words what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

In the same way that Icasa can't expect Blairatholl to go and ripup all their cables Icasa can't expect you to remove the cable you sneaked in under the road the other day. The status of http://www.blairatholl.co.za and Waterkloof is now exactly the same under the ECA. This puts Telkom in a very difficult position because Waterkloof can insist that Telkom also connects their underground ducting to their network. The concept of a 'Digital Village' doesn't exist under the ECA. No-matter what your ruling was with Telkom, the ECA takes precedent over this. I believe Blairatholl will now become a very interesting situation to observe. The only possible way of providing any sort of service crossing a boundary is via data crossing boundaries. By stating that no service may be provided and not clarifying that this doesn't mean that no data whatsoever is allowed to cross boundaries - massive confusion is being created.
This is my gripe with http://www.isp.org.za and http://www.itweb.co.za is that what they are saying is legally true, it is the added implication that you are not allowed to run cables to everybody that they are not clarifying. Fact is like Janet MacKenzie said: " ... 2.4 GHZ spectrum across boundaries ... will be legal" She did refer to "..public hotspots" and a public hotspot provides a service.

My reading of the ECA is that no service may be provided even at a hotspot without a license. But her point on data from your house crossing the street to your car 500m away will infact be legal. You are not providing a service to anybody with such a setup. THIS IS WHERE THE CONFUSION IS. We are conflating data crossing boundaries with providing a service. Data crossing your boundary via copper and fiber under your neighbours wall doesn't automatically imply that you are providing anybody with a service. For example you might have two houses at the entrance and exit of the street. And you are
simply linking these two properties. From the one house you can watch the other via CCTV. You are not providing a service to anybody you are merely ''seding data over a boundary.'' Telecoms lawyer Janet McKenzie refered to a license free 2.4ghz medium. I am merely refering to a license free fiber and coppe medium. From a data crossing boundaries persepctive there is no difference.

It's interesting to note how Wi-fi under Act.96 basically forced the ECA to abandon the concept of a boundary. By it's very nature it is impossible
to contain Wi-fi inside a boundary. Thus had they allowed Wi-fi but banned data per se from crossing a boundary the act would contain a logical contradiction
as was the case under under Act.96. Icasa type approved Wi-Fi gear thus implicitly legalising equipment that can do nohting else but cross a boundary. But crossing a boundary is crossing a boundary and thus Icasa found themselves in the ridiculous situation of trying to explain why fiber can't cross boundaries, yet they have just approved equipment which does exactly that: transmits data across boundaries. Wi-Fi is specifically responsable for the ECA not banning fiber and copper from crossing boundaries under the ECA. The ECA though attempts now to inhibit the flow of copper by banning
all services over it without a license thus hoping that people are actually stupid enough to bother with such rules. I just can't believe I have to waist my time analyzing the ECA because of the deliberate misrepresentation of the ECA by the Vansies.

ELECTRICITY and DATA over copper:
If one goes very deep into this issue one could argue that I am providing electricity over copper via underground ducting to my neighbour for free.
Thus no law can ban me from putting copper accross a boundary - this will violate the constitution. If I decide to give free electricity to the house besides me via underground ducting then banning this would violate the constitution.

ECA doesn't ban you from laying copper over a boundary, neither does it ban data from crossing a boundary - it bans a DATA SERVICE to another person over the copper wihtout a license. Lets take for example a multi-tennant building. Copper goes from flat to flat to provide electricity to each resident. So how could you possibly ban copper, it will amount to banning the landlord from providing Electricity to the tennants! And with the advent of POE data can infact now be sent over the powerlines in a multi-tennant complex. So the absolute logic of specifically NOT banning Data from crossing boundaries becomes crystal clear as technologies like POE had to be addressed INDIRECTLY in the ECA. The impression that some Telecoms lawyers are creating is that it is illegal to run a copper data-cable from flat to flat. But using this logic it would also be illegal to run copper power cables from flat to flat: Both can provide a data service!

And thus the ECA was drafted so as not to be shot down in flames in the Constitutional court. Because all it would take is just one bright-spark to actually take the ECA to court to have it declared unconstitutional - had it actually banned data from crossing boundaries. Because with POE banning data from crossing boundaries is tant-amount to banning Copper power cables from crossing boundaries!

Let me make this very clear:
YOU CAN'T BAN POWER cables FROM CROSSING BOUNDARIES AND THUS YOU CAN'T BAN DATA FROM CROSSING BOUNDARIES!

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"..7. Except for services exempted in terms of section 6, no person may provide any rvice without a licence."
Notice the wording of this. ECA doesnt' say " ... not provide a service to any other entity". No, simply says "... any service without a license". So we must invoke the "reasonable man test" and reprase the sEction 7 "...no person may provide any data service either inside a boundary or outside a boundary to
another entity or person wihtout a license." Obviously you can do nothing else but provide yourself with a service. So section.7
doesn't say you are not allowed to provide yourself with a fiber service crossing a boundary from one point to another. And thus the reasonable man would assume that you can infact run fiber under all the houses to reach your other house. The fiber per se isn't illegal(and wisely so) the dataservice over it is illegal to another person or entity - not to yourself.

Section 7 ".... no service may be provided without a license". Well lets see now, if the Landlord determines the wattage consumed by the aircon smartdevice, by this device transmitting data over the power lines to the Landlord so that the Landlord can tell the person what each appliance power consumption was on an individual basis, is the Landlord not providing a data service? Can the landlord install the equipment to read the smartdevices while applying for a "license" from Icasa? Are the drafters of the ECA insane?
 
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Hi Mich7777,

Apologies for my late entry to this thread, I've recently joined the forum and wanted to answer your questions based on my personal experience.

In answer to 'question 1.' any contracted company may install fibre/copper infrastructure for a gated/private community provided; it is installed in separate ducts to Telkom's infrastructure, doesn't 'break-out' of the complex and only provides a non-profit generating service for the gated/private community home owners association.

In answer to 'question 2.' it depends on what type of service you want to supply over the fibre i.e. non-profit generating CCTV service for the gated/private community home owners association could be construed as legal, as an aside another advantage to using fibre as opposed to copper is that copper-based equipments transmission frequencies could well coincide with the transmission frequencies of Telkom's access network in the adjacent duct causing interference.

In answer to 'question 3.' everyone assumed that you could self-provision with a VANS license but this is not the case, so no on selling (break-out) of PRI/E1 to self-provisioned gated/private community networks. However a notable exception is a certain WISP/Municipality wireless network that is in contravention to the ‘self-provisioning act’ but has managed to achieve a stale-mate/stand-off by resorting to a tit-for-tat argument that Telkom/ICASA (I know I shouldn't use the relationship like this but it's easier) use the municipal infrastructure (roads, power, water etc), and that this wireless network provides free access to previously disadvantaged communities.

So you can self-provision gated/private community networks provided they are closed, not-for-profit and non-intrusive to Telkom's access network.
 
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... And apparently there is some sort of addition/amendment due to the act whereby Municipalities can self-provision. May have already been passed, I'm not sure though.
 
Hi Mich7777,

In answer to 'question 2.' it depends on what type of service you want to supply over the fibre i.e. non-profit generating CCTV service for the gated/private community home owners association could be construed as legal ....

.....So you can self-provision gated/private community networks provided they are closed, not-for-profit and non-intrusive to Telkom's access network.

No, your post all wrong. You are assuming that because a closed village is closed or inside a boundary that the ECA in effect doesn't apply to them as was the case with Act.96. The ECA can be summarised as:"Everything is illegal until Icasa makes it legal". Or "All data services to anybody else either CCTV, commercial, not-for-profit in anyway via any medium either inside or crossing a boundary is illegal".

Thus the status of http://www.blairatholl.co.za, Cybercafe's and open streets are exactly the same. All loopholes have been stopped. Blairatholl we sollute you and Telkom for your dapper violation of the ECA. All closed villages who now provide anybody with a DATASERVICE via Telephone wires is fearlessly violating the ECA and is an inspiration to us all. Their example of laying ducting to houses inside a village will now be emulated by open streets. Because if http://www.blairatholl.co.za can do it then why can't Waterkloof - boundaries don't exist anymore in the ECA! Phone http://www.buys.co.za, http://www.nicciferguson.co.za
and Cliff Decker Attorneys Janet MacKenzie to confirm my view.

As dominic stated: " Everything is illegal" I agree 100%. So dominic when do
expect the Scorpions to do a raid on Blairatholl? So how about it Mr.Lunenberg from Icasa legal why don't you demonstrate to us your powers of
geting court orders to rip-out underground electricity and data cables? Or are you just bluffing mr.Lunenberg? Come on mr.Lunenberg why don't you reply to this
forum? Why don't you tell us exactly what your are going to do about Blairatholl?
Senior Manager Legal fax 011 448 2171 LunenBerg
casa legal telephone number: 011 321 8439
 
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