General Plasma & LCD discussions

[rorz0r]

Just want to say that my samsung PS42C430 plasma blows my sony KDL-40CX520 out of the water in terms of brightness, so much so that I'm wondering if the LCD is supposed to be so dim...

Lol. Maybe it's just old? Sounds like an older model.

Done any HD comparisons on each set? Please give us your thoughts - here instead though http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/306685-General-Plasma-amp-LCD-discussions/page23.

Not an older model at all. The CX520's just came out here as far as I know. The sony-asia site shows the first software updates in april this year.

The menus, networking, features, etc are far better on the sony but the samsung really does get the job done. They are both at opposite ends of the house so I'm not going to be doing any side by side type comparisons. The sony is in the bedroom where the samsung used to be and I can tell it's a lot dimmer. I've played with the display settings etc but it's basically just how it is. I managed to stream avatar at 1080p from my router to my mede8er and that worked rather well. Looked quite decent but I normally lie on the bed and watch tv, so viewing distance is 4m from a 40" tv. The tv's built in stuff doesn't seem to pick up the files in the directory where avatar is so I guess it can't play mkv's. I still need to register it to get it to play DivX.
The bravia internet video is quite cool (backed by my cell c black modem and tp-link mr3220). Tons of different sites etc on there. The widgets feature only has twitter which I don't really care about and facebook. The facebook widget is similar to the one on my android phone. It only shows one status at a time and randomly switches between recent updates. Most of the time though the status is "cut off" and I haven't found a way to see the whole thing. There is a built in web browser but you don't have a mouse or a keyboard so haven't bothered with that much (besides the sign in to facebook).

 

[Graxill]

Plasma vs LCD Comparison

Hi all. Firstly, thanks to all the regulars for sharing all your knowledge. Much appreciated.

For the past couple of weeks I've been pretty much sold on the Samsung PS-51D550. But, after reading the comments here I started worrying that me tv area might be a bit bright for a plasma.

Yesterday I discovered the Sony 46EX500 LCD is selling for more or less the same price, and it's a 100Hz.

If you remove the size difference and the 3d feature of the Samsung from the equation, does anyone have an opinion for me regarding these two panels please? I'm stuck!

 

[PostmanPot]

Not an older model at all. The CX520's just came out here as far as I know. The sony-asia site shows the first software updates in april this year.

The menus, networking, features, etc are far better on the sony but the samsung really does get the job done. They are both at opposite ends of the house so I'm not going to be doing any side by side type comparisons. The sony is in the bedroom where the samsung used to be and I can tell it's a lot dimmer. I've played with the display settings etc but it's basically just how it is. I managed to stream avatar at 1080p from my router to my mede8er and that worked rather well. Looked quite decent but I normally lie on the bed and watch tv, so viewing distance is 4m from a 40" tv. The tv's built in stuff doesn't seem to pick up the files in the directory where avatar is so I guess it can't play mkv's. I still need to register it to get it to play DivX.
The bravia internet video is quite cool (backed by my cell c black modem and tp-link mr3220). Tons of different sites etc on there. The widgets feature only has twitter which I don't really care about and facebook. The facebook widget is similar to the one on my android phone. It only shows one status at a time and randomly switches between recent updates. Most of the time though the status is "cut off" and I haven't found a way to see the whole thing. There is a built in web browser but you don't have a mouse or a keyboard so haven't bothered with that much (besides the sign in to facebook).

Alright, and picture quality comparison? How much was the 40" Sony LCD? Want to determine whether entry level or not like the plasma. I take it you got the 42" Samsung plasma for about R5,000.

 

[PostmanPot]

Hi all. Firstly, thanks to all the regulars for sharing all your knowledge. Much appreciated.

For the past couple of weeks I've been pretty much sold on the Samsung PS-51D550. But, after reading the comments here I started worrying that me tv area might be a bit bright for a plasma.

Yesterday I discovered the Sony 46EX500 LCD is selling for more or less the same price, and it's a 100Hz.

If you remove the size difference and the 3d feature of the Samsung from the equation, does anyone have an opinion for me regarding these two panels please? I'm stuck!

EX500 is decent, but I think Samsung Series 6 is better. Good TVs. You can also get the 46" for around the 51" plasma's price.

Elaborate on the lighting?

 

[Roman4604]

As such, those entry level plasmas actually have an advantage over, e.g. higher end plasmas. Of course this only applies to the resolution differences for the purist.

Well its gets a bit more complex, one has to quantify what SD actually is (from the TV's perspective).

In the analogue world (RF or RCA input), its quite cut & dry, you're receiving a true 576i signal, and here I would agree a HD Ready display (Plasma) will provide a better picture. In the digital world you need to take a more end-to-end view of both source (decoder) and output (TV) devices.

In its defaults, a MC HDPVR takes the SD 576i MPEG4 encoded signal off the satellite and its DSP decrypts/decodes/renders/scales it into a 1920x1080i stream which is outputted via the HDMI port. So from the TV's perspective its actually receiving a 1080i HD signal which just happens to have the SD content encoded into it.

A FHD 1080p TV (Plasma or LCD/LED) will more faithfull display this 1080i signal arriving in its HDMI port (only has to de-interlace the signal to progressive, no scaling). Adding a 2nd round of scaling (down to a lower native TV res) will introduce more alteration & associated image distortion.

 

[Graxill]

EX500 is decent, but I think Samsung Series 6 is better. Good TVs. You can also get the 46" for around the 51" plasma's price.

Elaborate on the lighting?

With the curtains pulled back the room gets sun from sunrise to about 3 in the afternoon because of the wrap around windows/sliding doors. With my old crt I've always been amazed how reflections go unnoticed once you get involved with what you watching. I've been in many stores looking at panels and have never really noticed reflections until I read about it here because I'm so used to it at home. I wonder, would the reflection from a plasma be worse than a crt in the same conditions?

The thing that does bother me about the Sony is it's age. I think it's early 2010 technology. Then again, it might not be that much of a factor with flat screen tv's.

Thanks for your response. I'll check out the Series 6 in the meantime.

 

[PostmanPot]

With the curtains pulled back the room gets sun from sunrise to about 3 in the afternoon because of the wrap around windows/sliding doors. With my old crt I've always been amazed how reflections go unnoticed once you get involved with what you watching. I've been in many stores looking at panels and have never really noticed reflections until I read about it here because I'm so used to it at home. I wonder, would the reflection from a plasma be worse than a crt in the same conditions?

The thing that does bother me about the Sony is it's age. I think it's early 2010 technology. Then again, it might not be that much of a factor with flat screen tv's.

Thanks for your response. I'll check out the Series 6 in the meantime.

Well that's the thing. People mention reflections. I see reflections, however when I'm absorbed in the media I simply forget about them and cannot see them unless I am looking for them.

Reflection on CRT and plasma is about the same, with CRT being slightly better I would say.

Samsung Series 6 is also from pre-2010. The first A/B650's were probably circa 2009. The newer C650's are 2010 IIRC. Really good TVs though, on par with Series 5 plasma. But pricier for less size.

 

[rorz0r]

Alright, and picture quality comparison? How much was the 40" Sony LCD? Want to determine whether entry level or not like the plasma. I take it you got the 42" Samsung plasma for about R5,000.

The sony lcd was a replacement through an insurance replacement company but I think the price they quoted was quite fair at R6700. I see nivo has it at 6889. I'm sure it was more like 6600 on there a week ago though. I saw the 46" version at game the other day for about 12000 and something. There's very little price difference between the 40" bx400, ex400 and cx520.
I paid a bit more for the plasma. Must have been around 5500, then I got a tv license and a 3 yr extended warranty at the same time. This was around new year.

Picture quality I can't really judge. It does seem very good on the sony though, but still not very bright. The plasma seems to be able to show the picture quite bright while maintaining black levels.

 

[sn3rd]

Well its gets a bit more complex, one has to quantify what SD actually is (from the TV's perspective).

In the analogue world (RF or RCA input), its quite cut & dry, you're receiving a true 576i signal, and here I would agree a HD Ready display (Plasma) will provide a better picture. In the digital world you need to take a more end-to-end view of both source (decoder) and output (TV) devices.

In its defaults, a MC HDPVR takes the SD 576i MPEG4 encoded signal off the satellite and its DSP decrypts/decodes/renders/scales it into a 1920x1080i stream which is outputted via the HDMI port. So from the TV's perspective its actually receiving a 1080i HD signal which just happens to have the SD content encoded into it.

A FHD 1080p TV (Plasma or LCD/LED) will more faithfull display this 1080i signal arriving in its HDMI port (only has to de-interlace the signal to progressive, no scaling). Adding a 2nd round of scaling (down to a lower native TV res) will introduce more alteration & associated image distortion.

I agree with you, but it actually has nothing to do with what I said before; you've misunderstood me completely.

 

[Flame]

Can someone tell me what have best quility...a 42" screen full hd (non tv just screen) and a 42" fhd tv...or does they both have same quility about?

 

[MiY4Gi]

Can someone tell me what have best quility...a 42" screen full hd (non tv just screen) and a 42" fhd tv...or does they both have same quility about?

From my experience LCD TV's have much better picture quality than LCD monitors/screens.

Why this is so is debatable. I had thought the TV's might have IPS or VA panels while the monitors have TN panels, but many people moan that IPS panels are too expensive to be used in TV's, and that all TV's use TN panels.

Whatever the case, it's best to decide for yourself.

 

[greg_SA]

Just some comments on my recent HDTV investigations / purchase... These are my personal opinions and choices that worked for me...

I have been waiting to by a HDTV for ages... reading reviews, etc. on forums on and off for a few years When I decided to buy a month ago, I was pretty much all set on a Panasonic 42" plasma... (we have a viewing distance of about 3m). Then when the new Samsung range came out with very good prices, I had my eye on a 51" D series (specifically the 51D6500). I then realized that only the D550 was available in SA

After owning the Samsung 51D550 plasma for a week, I had to take it back The picture quality was excellent! But the screen was extremely reflective. I really tried to live with it, but the reflections were just too clear, and I needed to turn off all the lights to watch comfortably, which wasn't practical. I looked at the older 50C550 and 50C6500 - their screens are MUCH less reflective (saw them side by side in a shop with a 51D550). Another rather unusual problem was that I noticed "rainbows" on the plasma - much like "rainbows" that are visible on DLP projectors, which I am very sensitive to. I spent a lot of time tweaking settings, etc. but it didn't help.

So after spending another week or 2 looking at different TVs, I bought a 46EX500. It is not the latest model from Sony... it is a 100Hz, CFL back-lit LCD. I actually chose this over LED back-lit as these screens typically have much better uniformity and don't have flashlight problems - the 1" thickness that you save with LED didn't concern me. I am really happy with this screen I also chose it as it has a very matte screen... Most LCD back-lit models seem to have similar screens. I find this screen very easy on my eyes - more relaxing to watch.

Samsung 51D550
Pros:
- Excellent image quality
- Handles low quality video very well

Cons:
- Very pronounced reflections. Reflections are clear and sharp.
- Using it with a PC causes the overall brightness to change depending on the screen content - ABL (Auto Brightness Limiter) cannot be disabled, it is a "feature".
- Noticeable buzz from the screen (I noticed this on every plasma that I looked at in shops). - It only really bothered me when doing a bit of web browsing, or when there was silence in a movie (between dialog). Depending on your room, this might be less severe if you have carpets, curtains, etc.
- I see Rainbows In high contract scenes, especially with lots of black and white.

46EX500
Pros:
- Excellent picture quality
- Works great with a PC
- Dead silent
- No reflection problems (I can watch easily during the day). If there is a lot of light, the reflections are very diffused.

Cons:
- Doesn't handle very low bitrate video as well as a plasma

Please note that these are just my opinions, and the reasons I ultimately chose the 46EX500.

 

[PostmanPot]

From my experience LCD TV's have much better picture quality than LCD monitors/screens.

Why this is so is debatable. I had thought the TV's might have IPS or VA panels while the monitors have TN panels, but many people moan that IPS panels are too expensive to be used in TV's, and that all TV's use TN panels.

Whatever the case, it's best to decide for yourself.

+1

The big non-tuner screens (Mecer, Proline, etc.) are very likely to be TN panels.

Much better to go with a branded LCD TV as you are guaranteed IPS/VA panels.

 

[PostmanPot]

I bought a 46EX500

Pity about the reflections. I can't believe the C550 has better AR!

What did you pay for the Sony?

 

[greg_SA]

Pity about the reflections. I can't believe the C550 has better AR!

What did you pay for the Sony?

The AR is definitely better - it is very significant.

Paid R9999.

 

[Roman4604]

Cons:
- Doesn't handle very low bitrate video as well as a plasma

Assume you mean SD DSTV? If so do you have a HDPVR?

 

[greg_SA]

Assume you mean SD DSTV? If so do you have a HDPVR?

I think the Samsung plasma handled the very low-bitrate SD DSTV channels a bit better... just slightly better. They still looked crap on the plasma, but a smoother crap

But the better SD channels like Mnet, Movie channels and Supersport look the same on the EX500. I am still playing with the settings on the Sony (currently pretty much everything is "off" - will still see how MPEG noise reduction, etc. works).

Yep, got an HD PVR... HD channels and the better SD channels really look excellent! DVDs also look great That was a major factor for me - I have a large DVD collection, and I was worried that the LCD would look bad, but I am very happy.

 

[Roman4604]

I think the Samsung plasma handled the very low-bitrate SD DSTV channels a bit better... just slightly better. They still looked crap on the plasma, but a smoother crap

But the better SD channels like Mnet, Movie channels and Supersport look the same on the EX500. I am still playing with the settings on the Sony (currently pretty much everything is "off" - will still see how MPEG noise reduction, etc. works).

The main trick for a decent SD picture off the HDPVR is to ensure the TV running a 1:1 pixel mapping display mode (1080i->1080p). This is not 16:9 (which is usually zoomed slightly), on Samsungs its call Screen Fit mode, while I think Sony terms it Full Pixel mode.

 

[greg_SA]

The main trick for a decent SD picture off the HDPVR is to ensure the TV running a 1:1 pixel mapping display mode (1080i->1080p). This is not 16:9 (which is usually zoomed slightly), on Samsungs its call Screen Fit mode, while I think Sony terms it Full Pixel mode.

Cool - I'll definitely check it out - I did try the full pixel mode, but didn't take note of SD channel quality. I am happy with it anyway... the Samsung plasma just had a very slight advantage.

 

[Roman4604]

I did try the full pixel mode, but didn't take note of SD channel quality.

Provides a less distorted picture as the TV's circuitry does no scaling, but then some channels are beyond repair ... most notibly Trace, I think MC give it 64Kbps of bw. As you mention, on the other end of the spectrum is the Idols channel which looks great (almost HD like).

One caveat, you do get some overscan rubbish at the top of the screen on some channels e.g. BBC News. Not sure bout Sony, but Samsungs allow you to shift the whole image up to crop off the top.