George Floyd death

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Craig said:
Mistake, of course yes. Both committed criminal acts, you excuse the one while condemning the other. There's a word for that, just can't get to it now..
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Nope, you are comparing apples and oranges.

The one accidentally killed someone and the other did so with intent to kill. No burglary crew in SA makes the "mistake" of killing, that's one of the reasons they are there in the first place, a bit of fun while they pillage. The only mistakes they make is to accidentally kill someone too soon or to foul up the burglary.

So no, in a honest comparison you are the one being a hypocrite here.

On a personal note I admit my bias where the one group still has benefit of the doubt left and the other needs to be rounded up and shot..... good thing for them I am not in charge of anything. I have zero sympathy left with SA's murder/rape gangs. What they do is pure evil not just stupidity, the fact that they happen to generally be stupid does not enter into it.

Until cops over there start helping such gangs as they do here I will still give them the benefit of the doubt.
 
All these responses about statues , believing a statue posseses the internal organs and ability for it to use drugs ,have diseases or can behave like a human is a mental illness.
 
rambo919 said:
Nope, you are comparing apples and oranges.

The one accidentally killed someone and the other did so with intent to kill. No burglary crew in SA makes the "mistake" of killing, that's one of the reasons they are there in the first place, a bit of fun while they pillage. The only mistakes they make is to accidentally kill someone too soon or to foul up the burglary.

So no, in a honest comparison you are the one being a hypocrite here.

On a personal note I admit my bias where the one group still has benefit of the doubt left and the other needs to be rounded up and shot..... good thing for them I am not in charge of anything. I have zero sympathy left with SA's murder/rape gangs. What they do is pure evil not just stupidity, the fact that they happen to generally be stupid does not enter into it.

Until cops over there start helping such gangs as they do here I will still give them the benefit of the doubt.
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I'm not willing to give either the benefit of the doubt. Both deserve to get as much crap as possible. Killing anyone that is not a threat to you or is non violent cannot be excused.
 
cerebus said:
Oh come on enough with the hagiography. Churchill was undoubtedly one of the great men of history and he did probably more than any single person to drive back the Nazis, but he also held views that were unequivocally vile and racist, even judged by the standards of his time.
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None of that give you the right to vandalise public property.
 
Craig said:
I'm not willing to give either the benefit of the doubt. Both deserve to get as much crap as possible. Killing anyone that is not a threat to you or is non violent cannot be excused.
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There is always a deliberate or accidental colouring the killing though, you can also accidentally kill or murder someone, this is different from deliberate killing. Three kinds of penalty.

AI am not excusing it btw, as I have said a few times. I am merely being objective, which is easy for me since I don't know either party and it really does not matter to me what exactly happens to this specific cop...... what I can't understand is why it matters to you so much. But of course that's none of my business really, you know by now I just plain find your attitude irrational no offense intended.
 
rambo919 said:
Nope, you are comparing apples and oranges.

The one accidentally killed someone and the other did so with intent to kill. No burglary crew in SA makes the "mistake" of killing, that's one of the reasons they are there in the first place, a bit of fun while they pillage. The only mistakes they make is to accidentally kill someone too soon or to foul up the burglary.

So no, in a honest comparison you are the one being a hypocrite here.

On a personal note I admit my bias where the one group still has benefit of the doubt left and the other needs to be rounded up and shot..... good thing for them I am not in charge of anything. I have zero sympathy left with SA's murder/rape gangs. What they do is pure evil not just stupidity, the fact that they happen to generally be stupid does not enter into it.

Until cops over there start helping such gangs as they do here I will still give them the benefit of the doubt.
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The Floyd support team just can't get to grip with the fact that an unhealthy drug using career criminal died during police action and not solely due to it, so this leads them to make up false equivalencies.
They also don't realise that supporting any of these individuals is a mistake ,so they go around championing the cause of a guy who would kill a pregnant woman.
It's so twisted it's like an episode of twilight zone or something.
 
konfab said:
None of that give you the right to vandalise public property.
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I never said it did, but there's a fine line between vandalism and revolution. How you perceive this depends on what side of the fence you're sitting. Personally I'm not for tearing down Churchill statues, but I think some public reckoning with the uglier aspects of historical figures is necessary.
 
Jabulani22 said:
The Floyd support team just can't get to grip with the fact that an unhealthy drug using career criminal died during police action and not solely due to it, so this leads them to make up false equivalencies.
They also don't realise that supporting any of these individuals is a mistake ,so they go around championing the cause of a guy who would kill a pregnant woman.
It's so twisted it's like an episode of twilight zone or something.
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Be that as it may.

Yes I agree the cop being rough with him is understandable, however he did end up at best (note at best) accidentally killing someone which could have been avoided and he does not deserve to get off the hook just because it was unintentional.
 
cerebus said:
I never said it did, but there's a fine line between vandalism and revolution. How you perceive this depends on what side of the fence you're sitting. Personally I'm not for tearing down Churchill statues, but I think some public reckoning with the uglier aspects of historical figures is necessary.
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So you are on board with teaching the world about our home grown saints killing innocent children , great news.
 
rambo919 said:
Be that as it may.

Yes I agree the cop being rough with him is understandable, however he did end up at best (note at best) accidentally killing someone which could have been avoided and he does not deserve to get off the hook just because it was unintentional.
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Agreed , if it was part of the training he received then that also requires review (a good chance of it too as many police use this tactic to subdue)
 
Jabulani22 said:
Agreed , if it was part of the training he received then that also requires review (a good chance of it too as many police use this tactic to subdue)
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Yes but to subdue someone is temporary, and this (particular move) is only something you do if there is no other officers able to help you.... which there were.
 
cerebus said:
Why wouldn't I be?
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Just making sure you don't have rules for some and rules for others.
In the end no statues will stand if we apply this thinking because most public figures had scumbag ideas.
I'm ok with all truth about all public figures being aired and we shouldn't idolize people by hiding all their flaws or crimes etc.
 
Jabulani22 said:
Just making sure you don't have rules for some and rules for others.
In the end no statues will stand if we apply this thinking because most public figures had scumbag ideas.
I'm ok with all truth about all public figures being aired and we shouldn't idolize people by hiding all their flaws or crimes etc.
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Plenty of statues will stand. I think it's fine to have a statue of Churchill because we understand that he represents something great about the British spirit, even if we need to reevaluate him in a racial sense. But Robert E Lee, what does he really represent to America? Nothing good that I can think of.
 
rambo919 said:
Yes but to subdue someone is temporary, and this is only something you do if there is no other officers able to help you.... which there were.
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Seems like the other PD's and Israelis use this tactic and many pics online show a few officers/army people present.
All subduing of suspects is meant to be used to ensure compliance or to get restraints on , and after that's achieved you move them.
I agree though it should not be used for extended periods.
 
Jabulani22 said:
Seems like the other PD's and Israelis use this tactic and many pics online show a few officers/army people present.
All subduing of suspects is meant to be used to ensure compliance or to get restraints on , and after that's achieved you move them.
I agree though it should not be used for extended periods.
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TBF Israel is a high tension environment where a unsubdued suspect can easily end up in collateral death. So I am not surprised if they prize efficiency over culprit safety.

Murica and Israel are different worlds.
 
cerebus said:
Plenty of statues will stand. I think it's fine to have a statue of Churchill because we understand that he represents something great about the British spirit, even if we need to reevaluate him in a racial sense. But Robert E Lee, what does he really represent to America? Nothing good that I can think of.
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Even the losing side should be allowed to honor their dead(not to divide but to acknowledge) , if we overlooked one bad aspect of one guy we need to do the same for others.
 
cerebus said:
I never said it did, but there's a fine line between vandalism and revolution. How you perceive this depends on what side of the fence you're sitting. Personally I'm not for tearing down Churchill statues, but I think some public reckoning with the uglier aspects of historical figures is necessary.
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No it isn't actually.
History is there for people to read and draw their own conclusions from. This is what civilization demands of people.

What these fine upstanding "revolutionaries" want to do is wipe history out and start again anew. It is exactly the game played by ISIS, when they go and blow up statues.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_cultural_heritage_by_ISIL
You take away your enemy's history and you take away something that they can rally around.
It is the characteristic hallmark of every totalitarian society.

Public statues are publicly owned, which means that if people want to take them down, they have to follow a democratic process, not a mob process. Then the statue can be taken down and moved to somewhere more appropriate.
 
rambo919 said:
TBF Israel is a high tension environment where a unsubdued suspect can easily end up in collateral death. So I am not surprised if they prize efficiency over culprit safety.

Murica and Israel are different worlds.
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I'd say the arrest of a guy while being confronted by a crowd is pretty stressful , but it is different things.
 
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