Goodbye Webafrica

[Generator Man]

I love all these good bye letters to the ISP's.
I'd be writing one once every month if I was into it, but just not my thing.
Fun to read though.

It's like alcohol... you'll be back

Not in my case, I won't go back to WA if they were the last ISP left in SA.

Termination notice has been given, new account signed up with Afrihost. Action > consequences.

I seriously advise WA management to look into their policies WRT payment and action taken against late payments. It won't help if they recoup all the outstanding payments within 24hours, and their client base has shrunk by 90%.

Take it, don't take it.

 

[Tinuva]

Not in my case, I won't go back to WA if they were the last ISP left in SA.

Termination notice has been given, new account signed up with Afrihost. Action > consequences.

I seriously advise WA management to look into their policies WRT payment and action taken against late payments. It won't help if they recoup all the outstanding payments within 24hours, and their client base has shrunk by 90%.

Take it, don't take it.

What worth is a client that doesn't pay? I don't know but if I ran a business it would make total sense to me to get rid of those clients. So doing that and losing 90% clients, and those are the 90% clients that are not doing payments, what did they lose?

 

[Generator Man]

What worth is a client that doesn't pay? I don't know but if I ran a business it would make total sense to me to get rid of those clients. So doing that and losing 90% clients, and those are the 90% clients that are not doing payments, what did they lose?

Serious WTF moment right there.

Client for 6 years that always pays on time. Rough calculations here, R14,300 paid ON TIME EVERY MONTH.
But then since he's late by 7 days on R59, lets just zap his service. That'll teach him a lesson hey.

Let me tell you one thing, if I was to operate my business under those terms, I'd have to close down tomorrow, since I would have to issue summons and repossess half of my clients.

Im not saying that they should run a charity, but evaluate each case before wielding the sword, don't you think that some clients are worth more keeping in the long run?

 

[Tharaxis]

Generator Man, while I agree that had WA not communicated the impending cancellation to you, or had not taken measures to contact you, that they would be in the wrong. However, as has been indicated, they did take measures to contact you on the details you provided, but to no avail. I assume that your sole contact details were indicated for receiving billing details?

Firstly, if you have someone responsible for dealing with accounts (and given the claimed size of your business I would expect you to), then set them up as the billing contact. There's no reason why invoices should be going through to you, just to have you then communicate that on to the relevant people. Let them deal with it directly and issues like this wouldn't occur. If you want to vet any invoices, then have them come to you with anything of concern, and put someone in place who can take over that role when you go away. You can't have bills going unpaid just because you're not there, I mean that's just simple business sense.

Now on to the problem at hand though, the fact that you seem to not have learned the lesson here, and that is that you can't run critical business processes over a consumer-level 4GB ADSL account... to do so is ridiculous and *completely* irresponsible, people have been stating this, and you seem to ignore it outright.

By stating you run a multi-million rand business (whether you do or not is not in dispute), spending less than 0.02% of revenue on something so critical comes across as being incredibly out of touch. You're pinching pennies on the wrong thing here. Seriously, spend 5K instead of 200 bucks, get some infrastructure that is backed by a proper SLA, and sleep a bit more soundly as a result, your business won't even feel the increased price, but I tell you, when things go wrong you'll be a lot happier with something built for critical use.

This is why everyone makes snide remarks about your claims of running (what you claim) is such a largely successful and "big" company, since not even the basics seem to be in place. It makes it seem that either a) your entire business is built like a house of cards that could come down at any second, or b) you're outright fabricating the fact that you own such a large business and it's actually just a one man operation.

 

[Generator Man]

Generator Man, while I agree that had WA not communicated the impending cancellation to you, or had not taken measures to contact you, that they would be in the wrong. However, as has been indicated, they did take measures to contact you on the details you provided, but to no avail. I assume that your sole contact details were indicated for receiving billing details?

I hate having to repeat the same things over and over in the same thread. I will answer your post as you have taken a lot of time to type up a reply.
Yes, they sent me an e-mail or 2. Granted it was my responsibility to pay, my gripe is not with that, it's with the fact that they bomb me with sms's everytime my bandwith is about to run out, simply because they want me to top-up and spend more money with them. Yet they cannot do the same before they suspend my service for the princely sum of R59.

Firstly, if you have someone responsible for dealing with accounts (and given the claimed size of your business I would expect you to), then set them up as the billing contact. There's no reason why invoices should be going through to you, just to have you then communicate that on to the relevant people. Let them deal with it directly and issues like this wouldn't occur. If you want to vet any invoices, then have them come to you with anything of concern, and put someone in place who can take over that role when you go away. You can't have bills going unpaid just because you're not there, I mean that's just simple business sense.

Our accounts are paid at month end, or upon submission of invoice which has to be approved by me first.
the problem with this specific account is that it started it's life as a boggo home ADSL account. Then it became my office account. My factory is in Rosslyn, I cannot go there every day. So some of the key functions are done through the offices that we have set up on the same premises where my home is.
It has been like this since inception of this business in 2007.

Now on to the problem at hand though, the fact that you seem to not have learned the lesson here, and that is that you can't run critical business processes over a consumer-level 4GB ADSL account... to do so is ridiculous and *completely* irresponsible, people have been stating this, and you seem to ignore it outright.

By stating you run a multi-million rand business (whether you do or not is not in dispute), spending less than 0.02% of revenue on something so critical comes across as being incredibly out of touch. You're pinching pennies on the wrong thing here. Seriously, spend 5K instead of 200 bucks, get some infrastructure that is backed by a proper SLA, and sleep a bit more soundly as a result, your business won't even feel the increased price, but I tell you, when things go wrong you'll be a lot happier with something built for critical use.

Multi million rand business (in turn-over) does not equate to multi million rand per month profits, not in the generator business boet.
We do not need fancy IT systems, we can cope with the odd fault (touch wood we haven't had any for the past 5 years). What I find irritating and disturbing is having had our IT access cut in the middle of a working week, simply because Webafrica wants to wield their authority around and get everyone to pay yesterday.
Let me tell you one thing, at any point in time we sit with over R1m owed to us by clients. We don't go there and cut the generator's wiring harness while they are running off it. We simply liase with them telephonically and make sure that we get paid.

This is why everyone makes snide remarks about your claims of running (what you claim) is such a largely successful and "big" company, since not even the basics seem to be in place. It makes it seem that either a) your entire business is built like a house of cards that could come down at any second, or b) you're outright fabricating the fact that you own such a large business and it's actually just a one man operation.

If anyone believes that this is a 1-man business, feel free to visit our factory at 188 Van Eeden Crescent in Rosslyn.

 

[HavocXphere]

I'll try to keep this level-headed...

at any point in time we sit with over R1m owed to us by clients. We don't go there and cut the generator's wiring harness while they are running off it. We simply liase with them telephonically and make sure that we get paid.

They have 30k subscribers, so they aren't phoning anyone...especially not for R59. The business models differ fundamentally & so should your expectations of the client-business relationship.

they bomb me with sms's everytime my bandwith is about to run out [...]Yet they cannot do the same before they suspend my service for the princely sum of R59.

Think about what would happen if they did that. They'd have 100s of these threads where people complain about being threatened with suspension & how unprofessional that is.

We do not need fancy IT systems, we can cope with the odd fault

Consider whether that makes business sense. Sure running a lean operation is awesome, but at some point the risks & inefficiencies outweigh the R500 saved.

Dropping one ISP for another is not the solution....This time its a payment issue next time its something else (They all follow a similar MO). You need a business grade product and a back-up solution (ironic that I'm telling this to a generator manufacturer).


Oh and congrats on building a multimillion business in ~3 years.

 

[Pohm]

Oh, generator man, I have had services cut off quite a few times as well.. all businesses go through that little "tough time" before they start making it, or dying.
The only difference is.. IF its my fault that my services got suspended/canceled, i accept it.. i don't write love letters to them. IF they cut the service off for NO REASON, its a different story for sure..
And hey, my high horse.. is not that high, actually, non-existent, i was just trying to get onto yours, but i cant seem to find a long enough ladder......

As for the last post you replied on last.. if your clients are owing you a million or so, you don't simply go and cut off the cables blah blah blah...
Are your clients renting the generators? if so, after a certain period of them not paying, and you contacting them, you would most certainly go and collect the rented generator.
If they are not renting it, you would after some time of them not paying, and you contacting them, also get the sheriff to collect the item as well as interest etc etc.

Web Africa DID send you an SMS about the money due for more than 7 days(the duration in which you have to pay from date of upgrade), yes, its R59, but hey. IT IS R59!!. Therefore, they did not just simply cut off your services.. they did warn you. They did their part. And they have proof.
You have caused this 3 page long scene, because of something that you did wrong(not reading the sms stating that you are in arreas, unless you did read it and just said, "hey, i'm special, they wont cut me off for R59.00). If I worked for Web Africa, I have all/most of your details, and I would be opening a law suit against you for calumny, vilification, slander, defamation and possibly loss of income(Hey, I left Web Africa..which I pay R599.00 a month for, because of this Post..)

But, perhaps, there is a different side to this.. one that very few of us understand. And if for some reason I'm not getting it, then I apologize for the statements made.
Anyways!! Adios Amigo!

 

[cpu.]

And hey, my high horse.. is not that high, actually, non-existent, i was just trying to get onto yours, but i cant seem to find a long enough ladder......

Man, you generate powerful words.:tears:

 

[Tinuva]

Serious WTF moment right there.

Client for 6 years that always pays on time. Rough calculations here, R14,300 paid ON TIME EVERY MONTH.
But then since he's late by 7 days on R59, lets just zap his service. That'll teach him a lesson hey.

Let me tell you one thing, if I was to operate my business under those terms, I'd have to close down tomorrow, since I would have to issue summons and repossess half of my clients.

Im not saying that they should run a charity, but evaluate each case before wielding the sword, don't you think that some clients are worth more keeping in the long run?

HAHAHA. You clearly missed the point, I wasn't talking about you (you think way too much of yourself...), I was talking in general. Perhaps if you learned about how to run a business smoother, and learn how to prevent tiny little issues you would make twice the money you do now.

 

[Generator Man]

Web Africa DID send you an SMS about the money due for more than 7 days

*facepalm*

My God, arguing with geeks is like stabbing oneself in the eye, repeatedly.
I swear that some of the replies on this thread contain such high level of stupidity that they belong on Lamebook.

I give up, someone please lock this thread, thanks.

 

[Generator Man]

Oh and congrats on building a multimillion business in ~3 years.

Maths not your forte' hey? :wtf:

 

[Generator Man]

Think about what would happen if they did that. They'd have 100s of these threads where people complain about being threatened with suspension & how unprofessional that is.

So it's better to disconnect, so they can't complain about it?
Man wait, don't lock this thread. it's becoming ever more comical by the way.

Anyways, as far as Webafrica goes, I've had my say, we've communicated via Pm/e-mail, I guess it's water under the bridge on my side.
I'm still moving to a new ISP, I hope my complaint can make Webafrica review their policies.

Nuff said.

 

[HavocXphere]

Maths not your forte' hey? :wtf:

We're 22 days into 2011, plus 3 full years (2010,2009,2008), plus an unknown number of months in 2007 (Since you didn't specify when in 2007). So 3 years and 22 days plus an unknown factor. The tilde character indicates approximation. So ~3 years is correct. As is ~4 years given the vague timing info you made available.

Speaking of acid responses....I complement you and get (incorrectly) mocked in return.:wtf:

So it's better to disconnect,

No its, better to inform the client and then disconnect if he does not respond. Which is what they are doing. They can't divine that just this once you chose not to read your mail for whatever reason.

so they can't complain about it?

Thats what the disconnect notification is for: So that people get a chance to protest. Hardly their fault if you don't make sure you receive the messages.

In summary: You run a mission critical resource (internet access) for a large (multi-million) company over an unsuitable medium (consumer level top-ups without debit orders) with no fail-over, break off communications and then you're surprised when it blows up in your face. If you think a different ISP will fix *that* then I wish you the best of luck 'cause you'll need both luck & divine intervention (Maybe you used up your divine intervention credits in the first 5 years when things went smoothly despite the ludicrous setup? ).

 

[MiY4Gi]

I'm sorry Generator Man but I'm liking you less and less the more I read this thread. I was sympathizing with you after your first post, but after you started getting arrogant, I'll changed my mind. YOU are wasting your time posting in this thread, since you clearly don't want to listen to anyone but yourself. Get back onto your jewel encrusted pedestal and stop insulting everyone.

 

[Pohm]

*facepalm*

My God, arguing with geeks is like stabbing oneself in the eye, repeatedly.
I swear that some of the replies on this thread contain such high level of stupidity that they belong on Lamebook.

I give up, someone please lock this thread, thanks.

I'm not quite sure what you get as stupid about my statement about the sms.. no you did not tell us about "not receiving" smses, but WA DID tell us that they did send you an sms regarding the R59.00..in stead of complaining so much.. GO PAY THEM WHAT YOU OWE. You are being a blatant Ass about this, and, therefore, I retract my "apologies" for in case I was in the wrong.
I would start insulting your intelligence around here, like you did with mine.. but, I'd rather not.
Furthermore, anyone can come along and state that they own a multi million rand company, and even give an address.. I don't care, the fact remains that you are an idiot in my eyes, and therefore, I will not comment on this thread anymore.

Never argue with a fool, he will drag you down to your level and then beat you with experience.
FFS guy, WAKE UP..its 2011.."It has been like this since inception of this business in 2007."

And, about the stabbing oneself in the eye.. PLEASE CONTINUE DOING THAT..

 

[Tinuva]

Well if you want to be stupid you must learn the hard way, and I guess Generatorman can't even learn the hard way, he will just make the same mistake again. Not even a Donkey will hit his head against the same rock twice. So go figure...

 

[Generator Man]

We're 22 days into 2011, plus 3 full years (2010,2009,2008), plus an unknown number of months in 2007 (Since you didn't specify when in 2007). So 3 years and 22 days plus an unknown factor. The tilde character indicates approximation. So ~3 years is correct. As is ~4 years given the vague timing info you made available.

2007-2011 is 4 years dude. The business was started in January 2007, so to January 2011 it's 4 years.

Jesus Christ, why are we even discussing this?

Speak about trying to pick a fight where there's none to be had...:erm:

 

[Generator Man]

I'm not quite sure what you get as stupid about my statement about the sms.. no you did not tell us about "not receiving" smses, but WA DID tell us that they did send you an sms regarding the R59.00..in stead of complaining so much.. GO PAY THEM WHAT YOU OWE. You are being a blatant Ass about this, and, therefore, I retract my "apologies" for in case I was in the wrong.

Sorry, you are stupid.

Posted on the 19/01:

All it would have taken is an sms stating "your account is in arrears, please pay", or a call "listen, we are about to suspend your service, can you please pay?". But no, Webafrica covers their back by sending solicitation e-mails, and then cut your service with a **** you attitude.

Now, prove to me where did Webafrica say that they sent me an SMS?

Just spoken to the Billing Manager, who's confirmed that our regular suspension notices where sent out as per normal under this account. We'll never suspend someone without prior warning.

The above refers to e-mails, which I did receive after I returned to office. I'm sure Jeff can confirm this.

Now crawl back into the cave where you come from and stop calling people names, when you're the stupid one.

 

[Generator Man]

I'm sorry Generator Man but I'm liking you less and less the more I read this thread. I was sympathizing with you after your first post, but after you started getting arrogant, I'll changed my mind. YOU are wasting your time posting in this thread, since you clearly don't want to listen to anyone but yourself. Get back onto your jewel encrusted pedestal and stop insulting everyone.

Yes I'm getting arrogant because I'm sick of idiots trying to be clever by jumping down my throat.
Who started the name calling and subtle insults? Not me. Who started the accusations? Not me. I appreciate the advise given and will discuss it with my partner, we might well upgrade our ADSL to what was suggested. For the short term, we have decided to simply move to another ISP, we have set up a debit order with Afrihost so that this doesn't happen again.

As for our terminating our account with WA, it's not just because of this episode. As I said before, this has been the lid on an already overboiling pot. We've been sollicited ad nauseum in the past for already paid accounts, we've had service issues, we've been unable to migrate our line from Telkom to Webafrica because the latter have been very unhelpful, we've had downtimes due to Webafrica having issues with their systems. I can go on and on and on. But I'm afraid that airing one's views about an ISP on this forum is akin to insulting their relatives to some.

I'll just stop posting altogether as it's not getting us anywhere.

 

[stocksie]

Interesting terms and conditions - if anything happens it's not his fault......but we kind of figured that by all in this thread.....

8) LIMITATIONS OF LIABILITY
8.1) ******* Generators or any of it's employees or directors shall not be liable for any contingent damage or losses under any
circumstances whatsoever, for loss of profit or damages, direct or indirect, consequential or otherwise, which may be sustained
by the Purchaser/Customer as a result directly or indirectly of:
8.2) goods supplied by the company being defective
8.3) goods repaired by the company being defective due to defective workmanship or materials.
8.4) any delay in delivery of any goods by ******** Generators.
8.5) any delay in effecting any repairs
8.6) any faulty or incorrect installations made by our approved installer and any damages as a result thereof.
8.7) the failure by ******* Generators to deliver any goods or in respect of any deliveries of goods by ******** Generators
which may be incorrect or which result from riots, acts of God, fire, strike, civil commotion, labor dispute, accident, delay in
manufacture or transportation, shortage of fuel, material or labor or any act, demand or requirement of any State or
Government or any other authority, or any cause whatsoever which is directly or indirectly or entirely or partly beyond the
control of the Company
b) Should ******* Generators supply goods or parts or do work free of charge in excess of its obligations under these
Conditions of Sale, ******** Generators shall be under no liability whatsoever if such goods or parts prove in any way to be
defective.