Google: Android didn't copy iPhone

[MattyW]

I don't think I did.



As it turns out Google showed a touchscreen version of Android 10 months after the public announcement of the iPhone. Hardly compelling evidence that it predated the iPhone.



There is certainly a lack of any publicly available evidence suggesting that Android didn't change track based on the iPhone. In all honesty though that is the only thing that could have done, because if they had stuck with any other design it would've flopped.

All true but their is no evidence what so ever that android copied IOS, I must ask what do people think android was doing from 2003-2007 playing soliataire? waiting for the iphone to come out? I refuse to believe the android team paid people for 4 years so they could copy the IOS design, as pointed out in the post above I am sure android lifted a few ideas from apple but the opposite is definetly true aswel as soon as apple fans admit this the better.

 

[icyrus]

All true but their is no evidence what so ever that android copied IOS,

You mean other than the pre-iPhone post-iPhone differences in the Android product as shown?

I must ask what do people think android was doing from 2003-2007 playing soliataire? waiting for the iphone to come out? I refuse to believe the android team paid people for 4 years so they could copy the IOS design

There is a lot more that goes into a mobile OS than just the UI/UX. The Android team spent that time building the core OS but once the iPhone was revealed they knew the game had changed and they had to adapt their UI.

as pointed out in the post above I am sure android lifted a few ideas from apple but the opposite is definetly true aswel as soon as apple fans admit this the better.

Without doubt Apple has taken ideas from Android, as they should. Objectively though, based on what has been shown of Android devices before and after the iPhone announcement, do you believe Apple has borrowed from Android as much as Android has from Apple?

 

[Dolby]

Now that you own an Apple device.

Open up the debate -- what features do you miss and why?

Pretty much every disadvantage I listed in the 'Disadvantages' section - but if I chose two it would be Flash and the 20MB App Store limit.

Although everyone disagree's about Flash, last week annoyed me as I'd just been to a Josie Field concert and everywhere I searched the following day was a Flash site ... needed to wait for an Android user at the office.

The 20MB limit annoys me because we're quite locked down at work. In other words, I cannot use the 3G when out for either buying applications or updating applications and need to wait till home anyway. I thought creating a hotspot (as the iPhone does this) would get passed - but one can't do that either.

A feature I do wish they copied was the custom home screen. When the tablet is idle or home screen, it would be great to have the weather (ala HTC), share price or latest news streamed to device without the need to go into an app.

I'd expect counter arguments - but I feel I've dropped many of the disadvantages I brought up from earlier and are only concentrating on the few that effect me. Hopefully then, Apple folk won't be too harsh on me ...

 

[icyrus]

Although everyone disagree's about Flash, last week annoyed me as I'd just been to a Josie Field concert and everywhere I searched the following day was a Flash site ... needed to wait for an Android user at the office.

Mobile flash is dead, Apple was right.

 

[MattyW]

Pretty much every disadvantage I listed in the 'Disadvantages' section - but if I chose two it would be Flash and the 20MB App Store limit.

Although everyone disagree's about Flash, last week annoyed me as I'd just been to a Josie Field concert and everywhere I searched the following day was a Flash site ... needed to wait for an Android user at the office.

The 20MB limit annoys me because we're quite locked down at work. In other words, I cannot use the 3G when out for either buying applications or updating applications and need to wait till home anyway. I thought creating a hotspot (as the iPhone does this) would get passed - but one can't do that either.

A feature I do wish they copied was the custom home screen. When the tablet is idle or home screen, it would be great to have the weather (ala HTC), share price or latest news streamed to device without the need to go into an app.

I'd expect counter arguments - but I feel I've dropped many of the disadvantages I brought up from earlier and are only concentrating on the few that effect me. Hopefully then, Apple folk won't be too harsh on me ...

Not that it's any conselation but adobe has dropped support for all mobile flash devices so even android won't have this advantage for long.

Link: http://www.dailytech.com/CONFIRMED+...elopment+Will+Focus+on+HTML5/article23231.htm

 

[MattyW]

You mean other than the pre-iPhone post-iPhone differences in the Android product as shown?

There is a lot more that goes into a mobile OS than just the UI/UX. The Android team spent that time building the core OS but once the iPhone was revealed they knew the game had changed and they had to adapt their UI.

Without doubt Apple has taken ideas from Android, as they should. Objectively though, based on what has been shown of Android devices before and after the iPhone announcement, do you believe Apple has borrowed from Android as much as Android has from Apple?

While I agree android may have copied more from IOs than vice versa...

This photo is invoked very often in online discussions about iOs vs. Android, a discussion we see popping up more and more due to the various legal battles between Apple, Microsoft, and Oracle and one side, and Google and the various Android device makers on the other. However, I always recalled seeing a video where alongside the BlackBerry-esque prototype, Google also showed off a device with a full touch screen.
As it turns out, my memory isn't playing tricks on me. We're talking November 12 2007, and Google released the fist SDK for Android. Other than the keyboard-driven BlackBerry-esque style, the SDK also supported touch screens just fine. And, just as I remembered, Google showed off a reference design with a full touch screen (and, by the looks of it, it's capacitive) - looking suspiciously similar to the HTC Dream, the first Android device - including gestures and flicks.
Both devices were clearly far from ready; both UIs are very sparse and limited, and seem to lack many of the things we take for granted today. For instance, the browser on the touch screen device doesn't have pinch-to-zoom, which, reportedly, wasn't enabled in Android because Apple asked Google not to.

The interesting thing here is that the release of the SDK with support for touch and large screens, as well as the release of this video and hardware reference design took place one month before the infamous photograph of the BlackBerry-esque device. This means that Google wasn't working with just one prototype, but several, which really shouldn't be a surprise at all, if you think about what Google wanted Android to be

Link: Earlier in post be Elimentals

My point being their was no old android design that changed, there were a bunch of devices that were shown at the same time, people have just taken that one picture to try and prove android copied IOs design.

 

[icyrus]

While I agree android may have copied more from IOs than vice versa...

Link: Earlier in post be Elimentals

My point being their was no old android design that changed, there were a bunch of devices that were shown at the same time, people have just taken that one picture to try and prove android copied IOs design.

You quoted almost verbatim the same part I did, but missed the point that the touch screen model was debuted 10 months after the iPhone announcement and is therefor pretty useless as evidence that the Android team was working on that before they saw the iPhone (never mind the fact that Eric Schmidt was on Apple's board since mid 2006).

 

[Elimentals]

Mobile flash is dead, Apple was right.

Or Apple killed it?

To be honest flash dont bug me that much, have it turned off by default with the prompt option when I select it.

5 things that would have made me happy. The reasons I switched.

1. Customization without jailbreak. If I could theme things like icons and the general UI. Almost what Winterboard allows you to do.
2. Unified file system, It is absolute bull **** to make me use 3rd party solutions to use things between applications. (Each app has its own file system and dont share with others)
3. Allowing me to use my phones as a USB dongle without the need for software pre-installed. I carry all my System Utils like Sysinternals on my phone and no I dont want to carry another USB dongle, i lost way to many already.
4. Being able to install applications from sources other than the App store. No Jailbreak is not the answer as I have to choose between my Open Source applications and pray my phone does not restart when I am away from my PC or an up to date phone and applications.
5. Allowing me to buy games without the need to use fake Credit cards and address details or voucher workarounds. (Back when I switched, Kenya did not have a App store, and I still dont like the fake address crap just to use my credit card)

 

[Dolby]

Mobile flash is dead, Apple was right.

Not that it's any conselation but adobe has dropped support for all mobile flash devices so even android won't have this advantage for long.

Link: http://www.dailytech.com/CONFIRMED+...elopment+Will+Focus+on+HTML5/article23231.htm

A company can't come along and decide something is going to die and then just not manufacture it. Apple decided this almost 4 years back and I'm sure it'll be another 4 years before mobile Flash is gone. That's almost a decade .... a decade where millions and millions of people have needed to arrange other means. They were wrong - period.

LED and local HDD are dying technologies as well - why do Apple even bother with them? These technologies won't be around in 15 years. It all seems such a waste to me :/

 

[icyrus]

A company can't come along and decide something is going to die and then just not manufacture it. Apple decided this almost 4 years back and I'm sure it'll be another 4 years before mobile Flash is gone. That's almost a decade .... a decade where millions and millions of people have needed to arrange other means. They were wrong - period.

Mobile flash didn't even exist until recently and and was killed in its infancy. It never worked and never will work. Mobile flash is currently as dead as it can be and will be a insignificant memory in less than 6 months.

Like Apple or not, they were right in every way about flash.

 

[MattyW]

You quoted almost verbatim the same part I did, but missed the point that the touch screen model was debuted 10 months after the iPhone announcement and is therefor pretty useless as evidence that the Android team was working on that before they saw the iPhone (never mind the fact that Eric Schmidt was on Apple's board since mid 2006).

As said earlier there is no proof for or against but you are missing what I am saying...

Posted earlier by you

Objectively though, based on what has been shown of Android devices before and after the iPhone announcement

What I am saying is according to the article their was no before and after, nothing was shown of the android OS before, the first blackberry like devices were around the same time as the touch screen ones, we and nobody else have absolutely any idea what android looked like before these devices were shown in late 2007.

And as to the Eric Shmidt thing I have brought this up in another part of the forum but here goes anyway...

CUPERTINO, California—August 29, 2006 —Apple® today announced that Dr. Eric Schmidt, chief executive officer of Google, was elected to Apple’s board of directors at their meeting today. Eric also sits on Google’s board of directors and Princeton University’s board of trustees.

“Eric is obviously doing a terrific job as CEO of Google, and we look forward to his contributions as a member of Apple’s board of directors,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “Like Apple, Google is very focused on innovation and we think Eric’s insights and experience will be very valuable in helping to guide Apple in the years ahead.”

Link: http://www.apple.com/pr/library/200...-Schmidt-Joins-Apples-Board-of-Directors.html

Google purchased the initial developer of the software, Android Inc., in 2005.[9] The unveiling of the Android distribution on November 5, 2007 was announced with the founding of the Open Handset Alliance, a consortium of 84 hardware, software, and telecommunication companies devoted to advancing open standards for mobile devices.[10][11][12][13]

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)

So apple asked Eric Shmidt CEO of google to join the apple board a year after the company had brought android, a company that it was widely known was working on a mobile OS and then when google release the mobile OS apple accuse android of copying them, it seems apple shouldn't have asked Shmidt to join the apple board.

 

[MattyW]

A company can't come along and decide something is going to die and then just not manufacture it. Apple decided this almost 4 years back and I'm sure it'll be another 4 years before mobile Flash is gone. That's almost a decade .... a decade where millions and millions of people have needed to arrange other means. They were wrong - period.

LED and local HDD are dying technologies as well - why do Apple even bother with them? These technologies won't be around in 15 years. It all seems such a waste to me :/

I agree with you I am not saying it's dead, it's not like they can remove it from our android devices that it's already installed on, only that adobe has dropped support for it, I will probably be using it for awhile still at least until flash 11 comes out and their are no more updates.

 

[Dolby]

Like Apple or not, they were right in every way about flash.

I like Apple.

Fortunately I'm able to see ups and downs of every product and realise everything has problems. I can form my own options and don't fall for marketing hype. Hence I'm not seen as an iSheep at the office, compared to others that jizz in their pants at the word Apple ...

 

[icyrus]

What I am saying is according to the article their was no before and after, nothing was shown of the android OS before, the first blackberry like devices were around the same time as the touch screen ones, we and nobody else have absolutely no idea what android looked like before these devices were shown in late 2007.

Which one was market ready?

And as to the Eric Shmidt thing I have brought this up in another part of the forum but here goes anyway...

So apple asked Eric Shmidt CEO of google to join the apple board a year after the company had brought android, a company that it was widely known was working on a mobile OS and then when google release the mobile OS apple accuse android of copying them, it seems apple shouldn't have asked Shmidt to join the apple board.

Apple have no problem with Google making a mobile OS, they did however have a problem with Google aping their UI/UX design.

 

[icyrus]

I like Apple.

Fortunately I'm able to see ups and downs of every product and realise everything has problems. I can form my own options and don't fall for marketing hype. Hence I'm not seen as an iSheep at the office, compared to others that jizz in their pants at the word Apple ...

And this is relevant how exactly?

 

[Dolby]

I'm trying to show you that although I like Apple, I see problems with their devices- unlike others that post here.

 

[MattyW]

Which one was market ready?

Niether was ready for market they were all prototypes as evidenced by the fact that the first android phone was the HTC dream

Apple have no problem with Google making a mobile OS, they did however have a problem with Google aping their UI/UX design.

You were the one who brought up that Eric Shimdt sat on apple's board all I was pointing out is apple had to be clearly aware that google had brought a mobile OS and were working on it, and as said so many times there is no evidence of this sure when android devices first appeared they looked similiar to iphones but that may have been what android was working on all along, there is no proof for or against only speculation on our part.

 

[[)roi(]]

Or Apple killed it?

To be honest flash dont bug me that much, have it turned off by default with the prompt option when I select it.

5 things that would have made me happy. The reasons I switched.

1. Customization without jailbreak. If I could theme things like icons and the general UI. Almost what Winterboard allows you to do.
2. Unified file system, It is absolute bull **** to make me use 3rd party solutions to use things between applications. (Each app has its own file system and dont share with others)
3. Allowing me to use my phones as a USB dongle without the need for software pre-installed. I carry all my System Utils like Sysinternals on my phone and no I dont want to carry another USB dongle, i lost way to many already.
4. Being able to install applications from sources other than the App store. No Jailbreak is not the answer as I have to choose between my Open Source applications and pray my phone does not restart when I am away from my PC or an up to date phone and applications.
5. Allowing me to buy games without the need to use fake Credit cards and address details or voucher workarounds. (Back when I switched, Kenya did not have a App store, and I still dont like the fake address crap just to use my credit card)

Ito flash, I took a slightly different approach; Safari runs without any plugins turned on (disabled) and Google Chrome is my fallback if I really feel the need for flash. Surprisingly my safari experience has improved: less memory usage and I cant remember when last it crashed. (btw prior to this I used click to flash, etc...)

Point 1, I agree; but fyi prior to iOS5 even developers were limited in the customization they could do to standard interface elements; with iOS 5 that has changed. Also in iOS5, they have introduced the notification centre (please no debate on copying) -- for now Apple have not allowed app developers access to put things into the notification centre, in time this will change, could be as early as the next release (the delay is because they most likely are internally trying to figure out how to give the developer's flexibility without comprising security).

Point 2,3,4; It's a compromise for security -- to be honest I prefer the security of their model; and so do many other developers /media houses, .... I really don't want the equivalent of the Windows + antivirus paradigm on my phone...
Yes it unfortunately means giving away flexibility, and that's why it's good that we have a choice of platforms.

Point 5; Apple unlike Google has taken responsibility for compliance with rights, taxes, etc.
Btw so has Amazon ito their Android and media stores.
Hence Amazon and Apple's stores have been more successful in obtaining rights to content...

This is the fickle world of legalities that we live in, sorry... You still however have a choice (as confirmed by the US government) to either JB, or go to an opposing platform and ito media you can buy at your local store, or from another online platform, or torrent if you must.

I use my Tab 10.1 on a daily basis -- there are many positives about Google's approach to this paradigm, but similarly many negatives. Let's be honest neither has it perfect -- both areas need improvement.

At home as I said in other posts, I am more likely to pick up the iPad rather than the Tab, primarily due to availability of content, but strangely enough as a result of the simplicity of the interface -- Android's interface as admitted to by Andy Rubin is more complicated -- ICS aims to simplify some of this.

 

[[)roi(]]

Pretty much every disadvantage I listed in the 'Disadvantages' section - but if I chose two it would be Flash and the 20MB App Store limit.

Although everyone disagree's about Flash, last week annoyed me as I'd just been to a Josie Field concert and everywhere I searched the following day was a Flash site ... needed to wait for an Android user at the office.

You're right (but not everyone is equally affected by it), overall it's better than it was in 2007 and by next year I don't believe it will be a problem at all. Don't forget there is an app that can help for now (Photon Flash web browser)

The 20MB limit annoys me because we're quite locked down at work. In other words, I cannot use the 3G when out for either buying applications or updating applications and need to wait till home anyway. I thought creating a hotspot (as the iPhone does this) would get passed - but one can't do that either.

I agree, but sometimes even Apple must bend to the needs of companies like AT&T. Why you ask is it only a problem on the idevices; simple it's a proven fact that more than 60% of the internet mobile usage comes from idevices.

A feature I do wish they copied was the custom home screen. When the tablet is idle or home screen, it would be great to have the weather (ala HTC), share price or latest news streamed to device without the need to go into an app.

I agree, but I believe that is Apple's intention with the notification centre; read up on private vs public apis -- New functionality within iOS is at first restricted to only Apple's solution to both stabilize them and to allow time for them to figure our the best way to give flexibility to developer and still maintain the security model.

I'd expect counter arguments - but I feel I've dropped many of the disadvantages I brought up from earlier and are only concentrating on the few that effect me. Hopefully then, Apple folk won't be too harsh on me ...

Thanks for the input; how about you send some of your improvement requirements to Apple; the more support we have around the common pain points, the more likely we'll see it in a new release.

iPAD feature requests / feedback
http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipad.html

iPhone feature requests / feedback
http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html

 

[Dolby]

We'll agree to disagree