Grass not always greener

I don't think that we spew more negativity than people who have decided to stay.
Personally for me - This exactly.

But i have also met a lot of SA expats here that have nothing positive to say about SA which is a real pity.

I tell people exactly how it is back in SA when they ask, positives and negatives. You get an amazing lifestyle (lets say you live in CPT, as thats where 90% of the people i speak to want to go), freedom, big houses, lekker outdoor activities, incredible places to see, great weather generally.
Then the usual suspects come out to play: Crime, economy, corruption etc.
 
Personally for me - This exactly.

But i have also met a lot of SA expats here that have nothing positive to say about SA which is a real pity.

I tell people exactly how it is back in SA when they ask, positives and negatives. You get an amazing lifestyle (lets say you live in CPT, as thats where 90% of the people i speak to want to go), freedom, big houses, lekker outdoor activities, incredible places to see, great weather generally.
Then the usual suspects come out to play: Crime, economy, corruption etc.
That's the thing, though: going to CPT on a nice holiday, experiencing the wine route, possibly even going up to the Kruger for a safari is NOT an accurate reflection of day-to-day life for the man on the street in SA. It's well masked as soon as the tourists walk through customs. All warm smiles and safety with beautiful weather.

I lived in CPT for over 20 years, and JHB for almost 10 - they're night and day. I wasn't personally affected by crime, but my younger brother has been mugged at gunpoint, my mother has been the victim of smash and grab, my aunt has been hijacked, and close friends of mine were tied up at gunpoint in their home while the robbers cleaned out the house. People have been murdered for much less in SA, so I'm thankful none of them were physically hurt. Some of them have had to go for counselling - but that's the extent of the damage. The convenience store at the garage across the road from where my mom stays has been robbed 4 times - by guys with AK's. About 100m down the road from that a security guard was gunned down when he tried to stop guys robbing the corner shop.

Crime IS a reality in SA. It IS a way of life now. People denying that simply haven't been affected by it yet themselves or had a family member affected by it. The reality only ever sinks in when it happens to YOU. The thing is in SA you're already constantly in survival mode whether you realise it or not.

In comparison, England is a walk in the park. My Mrs loves how safe it is here. I've been desensitised for years now, but I notice the differences now and then. Yes, there is crime here - it's everywhere. But it's not the violent, hateful crime that exists in SA.

I guess the same could be said of England, though, and I think a LOT of people make this mistake: come here on holiday for two weeks, see all the sights, go back home and decide that you loved it so much that you want to immigrate. Only to find that it's also been masked over, that Notting Hill is actually a bit of a ****hole and not anything like the movie was, the people aren't as friendly as they were when you were a tourist. You leave SA on a warm summer day and land at Heathrow where it's 4 degrees. Most of the people you encounter for the first few hours aren't even English - like you, they've been sold a dream. They left their home countries for a better, safer life in country that WORKS. At that point you either realise that things in England are VERY different and get on with it in your new home and make your new life work, or you sulk about it and start pining for SA until you eventually get on a plane and go back.

Yes, it IS very different. It's NOT SA, and if you expect it to be and to mould around you, you're going to have a very bad time, m'kay? When people ask about the bad stuff in SA, yes, I tell them - they surprisingly know quite a bit already, and they ususlly ask long before I've mentioned anything anyway. They say bad news travels fast. But I enjoy telling them about all the good things, more than anything.
 
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Best reason ever! Thats why im going to Singapore R600 for 1Gbs fiber :p
I'll admit it did influence my accommodation choice a bit. Have since realised its more about the minimum...don't need 1gig but needs to be fibre and at least 50mbps.

The ironic part is that shortly after I left SA fibre exploded in SA....
 
Basically, if you've moved o/seas and find it crap, you haven't adjusted. There are millions living everywhere. Some hate it some love it. There's an old saying; Where ever you go you take yourself with. Or somesuch.

If you're not adaptable, in your expectations and your mindset, you'll find it hard. Everywhere has it's pros and cons. Well, everywhere reasonable. Depends what's important to you.

Another mistake is falling into expat groups sitting around talking about 'back home'.
 
... and that, folks is why one should avoid excessive ingestion of dried fruits...
haha nice.

Just for ****s and giggles I had a look. Look what for R10800 a month gets you. https://www.gumtree.com/p/studios-bedsits-rent/a-single-semi-studio-flat/1165250913

Yes I know it's local etc, but still.
Realistically a single person would need round 20k pm for rent. So like this:
https://www.gumtree.com/p/1-bedroom...-spacious-flat-balham-sw12-no-fees/1185398647
 
Comparing items directly is a formula for failure. You live in a six bedroom house with pool, jacuzzi and wall-to-wall TV's in Joburg. But your family has been killed by some robbers.

Or you live in a 2 bedroom flat with your wife and 2 kids in London/Sing/NY and you are safe. Your kids have a future. Your wife has a future. You have a future.

It's the whole package.
 
haha nice.


Realistically a single person would need round 20k pm for rent. So like this:
https://www.gumtree.com/p/1-bedroom...-spacious-flat-balham-sw12-no-fees/1185398647
Yeah, not the greatest area tbh. As already stated, rent gets insane the closer you get to the city - too many people, not enough place to put them. For most in London there's no option but to house/flat share - an uncommon thing in SA, but completely normal and acceptable here. Another factor that contributes to a lack of housing for singles/couples is a law that up to 20% of an area or development has to be allocated to social housing - people on benefits. Yes, that includes disgustingly rich areas like Kensington and Chelsea. People who are willing to pay for a place to stay can't get one, but people who claim benefits can. #FirstWorldProblems

For a double room with en-suite in Raynes Park we're paying £800 excluding bills (another £150-ish), and share with a Brit, and a Kiwi couple. It's an easy way to save a bit of money when you first get here and are trying to get on your feet. The plan is to move even further out next year into a house of our own (which will cost us what we're paying now). We wanted to sooner, but for a 1-bedroom flat we'd have to pay 6 week's deposit, 1 month's rent, and random agency fees totaling £1000 - before we even moved in.

Regarding sticking to your own kind, it's hard for immigrants not to. They tend to feel more comfortable with people who share their culture and language, so there are distinct communities throughout London. Saffers occupy the SW of Greater London, for those interested: Earlsfield, Wimbledon, Raynes Park and surrounds. This is all counterproductive with regards to integration, of course.
 
Another point on the rentals - sure people on the forum are shocked by R20k/m for a small apartments and such, but there are also really nice places for R50k/m to R80k/m (and more of course) too.

Crazy you may say?

The thing is that senior staff of good companies can afford this kind of thing readily (R80k/m is approx. 50k pounds/year - affordable on a 150k pounds/year gross), whereas in SA, the super expensive properties are usually reserved for successful business owners and foreigners. Point being, the crazy prices are affordable to many - not the middle of the pack worker obviously, but not the super-elite either. A lot of the unaffordability impressions come from new immigrants and relative youngsters, who haven't yet built a 20 year career in the country. There are actually opportunities to do extremely well at an international level, without having to throw the dice as an entrepreneur or grab a super rare CEO position. If you're a double income family it's even easier.
 
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Another naivete that South Africans have, is that we're so employable overseas... Hahahahaha :D
Even with skills you're a small fish in a big ass pond, it will take you a long while to get a cushy job like you had back in SA.
 
Another naivete that South Africans have, is that we're so employable overseas... Hahahahaha :D
Even with skills you're a small fish in a big ass pond, it will take you a long while to get a cushy job like you had back in SA.
Actually, we are very employable, and find work relatively quickly.

Serious question, though: you run your mouth a lot - what experience do you have living overseas?
 
Another naivete that South Africans have, is that we're so employable overseas... Hahahahaha
Even with skills you're a small fish in a big ass pond, it will take you a long while to get a cushy job like you had back in SA.
Speak for yourself. Found it much easier...even had a choice among a couple countries.
 
Another naivete that South Africans have, is that we're so employable overseas... Hahahahaha :D
Even with skills you're a small fish in a big ass pond, it will take you a long while to get a cushy job like you had back in SA.

The countries South Africans tend to find jobs in the most - apparently it's because those countries' natives are lazy, and it's because South Africans that have the drive to emigrate are inherently not lazy, and they know it.

If you could choose to either pay a lot of money for a lazy local, or a little less money for a motivated foreigner, which would you choose?

It kinda also explains why Zimbos find work here so easy in the less affluent job positions.
 
Anybody moved to Dublin in Ireland ?

Considering it, because it is VISA free for South African passport holder and when you married to British passport holder you can work there also. Just need to pay 300 euro so that you can stay longer than 30 days.

I am loving internet prices in ireland, 60 euro a month for 360mps FTTH line from virgin!

My friend has been living in Dublin since 2001 - she's coming back to SA this week.
her main objectives
= make money (done)
=get her kids free,quality education (done - last born got his masters now)
=build herself a big house in SA with all the bells & whistles(done)
=travel the world (done)


The other one stays in Belgium (East Vlandre) - complains about the cold weather all the time. She has no plans to ever come back & has adjusted quite well despite the minor setbacks here & there.

so I guess it all depends on what your reasons for moving overseas are hey
 
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My friend has been living in Dublin since 2001 - she's coming back to SA this week.
her main objectives
= make money (done)
=get her kids free,quality education (done - last born got his masters now)
=build herself a big house in SA with all the bells & whistles(done)
=travel the world (done)


so I guess it all depends on what your reasons for moving overseas are hey
How old is she?
 
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