Guantaamo Bay

aperio

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Guantanamo Bay

With this unholy concentration camp in the news once again, it's perhaps a good time to do some reflection on what we are actually dealing with here:

Johann Hari
The Independent, London
GUANTANAMO BAY (Mar 10, 2007)

Guantanamo Bay -- America's shining torture camp on a hill -- is humming with new activity this week. Fourteen newbies have arrived, almost certainly from secret CIA prisons in Eastern Europe, where they have been waterboarded into passivity. They include Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, accused of masterminding the 9/11 massacres, and a man known as Hambali who allegedly planned the Bali bombing in which 200 innocent clubbers were incinerated. There won't be much time to settle in: the show-trials begin immediately. In these new military tribunals, the defendants can be shut out of their own trial at any time (along with their lawyers), evidence acquired via torture is admissible, and the accused can end up convicted on the basis of evidence they have not seen and cannot challenge.

The Bush administration propaganda -- we don't torture, there will be a fair legal process -- is unusually ridiculous, even by their standards. When Congress tried to pass a blanket ban on the use of torture by U.S. forces last year, the president demanded an exemption for the CIA. What is that, if not a tacit admission? In what way are these trials fair? We have become so numbed to the idea of Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and Bagram Airbase after five years that it's worth remembering: we are talking about a string of prison camps where a democratic country, supported by us, is torturing people to death.
 
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I would not call it a concentration camp, more of a compulsory holiday resort in the Caribbean.
 
Boohoo, two guys who planned, and went through with their plans, the deaths of thousands of people are having a hard time.

I might get emotional about this...... honestly there could be tears. :rolleyes:
 
Boohoo, two guys who planned, and went through with their plans, the deaths of thousands of people are having a hard time.

I might get emotional about this...... honestly there could be tears. :rolleyes:

Wtf? lol, and if they are innocent? Like the british guy that was held for almost a year and tortured and then set free because they relized , "o fock we have nothing that ties him to anything"?!?!
 
Boohoo, two guys who planned, and went through with their plans, the deaths of thousands of people are having a hard time.

I might get emotional about this...... honestly there could be tears. :rolleyes:

lol, i agree. Just fly over an active volcano in Hawaii, and push them out. Problem solved
 
Wtf? lol, and if they are innocent? Like the british guy that was heald for almost a year and tortured and then set free?!?!

Or the guys who were "tortured(does looking at somebody funny now count as well)" and released only to go blow up innocent people.

Yes they're all innocent individuals just plucked off the street :rolleyes:
 
I am in two minds about this... on the one hand I agree with the above poster, if these people have practiced terrorism, then they have given up all rights to humane treatment. On the other hand, who then watches the watchers? How do we know that the US is getting the proper evidence they need, and practicing fair methods of interrogation - we don't know that and it certainly does not seem that way.

I have no problem with the US keeping these people out of the USA and out of the US legal system, they deserve the harsh treatment, but I would be happy to see the UK and Australia given independent observer status to all that goes on there.
 
Or the guys who were "tortured(does looking at somebody funny now count as well)" and released only to go blow up innocent people.

Yes they're all innocent individuals just plucked off the street :rolleyes:

Lol, wow you are a smart one?

Would love to see your face if they dragged off your mother, father, brother........It has been proven that torture confessions are useless yet the USA still prosecute people based on it.....

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/28/60minutes/main3976928.shtml

http://www.amnestyusa.org/Spring_2008/Five_Years_of_My_Life/page.do?id=1551002&n1=2&n2=19&n3=1552

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2169795.ece

http://www.guantanamo.org.uk/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=98

Just go have a look at these four sites of peoples lives that the USA focked up by detaining them without due cause .......
 
While it may sound fair game to torture a few terrorists, it is still a dangerous game to play.

It has already been pointed out the torture is ineffective at gaining information.

America has always prided itself on its justice system and being the land of the free and fair, yet there are mock trials taking place.

By touting itself as the protector of freedom and a moral and ethical society, and then using torture, America is sending a contradictory message to the rest of the world, which will make it unpopular, as it will be seen as a hypocritical tyrant rather than the upholder of liberty. This may make it the subject of more attacks.

This is also a slippery slope, if you allow torture on the basis that these people are less than human, then why not start allowing chem warfare, eugenics etc... Rather draw that line sooner than later.
 
While it may sound fair game to torture a few terrorists, it is still a dangerous game to play.

It has already been pointed out the torture is ineffective at gaining information.

America has always prided itself on its justice system and being the land of the free and fair, yet there are mock trials taking place.

By touting itself as the protector of freedom and a moral and ethical society, and then using torture, America is sending a contradictory message to the rest of the world, which will make it unpopular, as it will be seen as a hypocritical tyrant rather than the upholder of liberty. This may make it the subject of more attacks.

This is also a slippery slope, if you allow torture on the basis that these people are less than human, then why not start allowing chem warfare, eugenics etc... Rather draw that line sooner than later.

Not to mention that their chosen methods are probably just creating more terrorists out there. As long as they play the game this way, they cannot win this war.
 
Lol, wow you are a smart one?

Would love to see your face if they dragged off your mother, father, brother........It has been proven that torture confessions are useless yet the USA still prosecute people based on it.....

Just go have a look at these four sites of peoples lives that the USA focked up by detaining them without due cause .......

Yes I'm sure they gonna drag me off. After all I've got close associations with Islamic extremists. Oh wait they pick you out the yellow pages :cool:

Talking of smart are you so dumb and naive to think the U.S hasn't always down rough interrogation of certain suspects in the past. That was never an issue. Neither is it an issue when other countries do it including countries likes France.

You obviously value the health of a religious nutjob more than the lives of 1000s of innocent people who are at risk. :sick:
 
Yes I'm sure they gonna drag me off. After all I've got close associations with Islamic extremists. Oh wait they pick you out the yellow pages :cool:

Talking of smart are you so dumb and naive to think the U.S hasn't always down rough interrogation of certain suspects in the past. That was never an issue. Neither is it an issue when other countries do it including countries likes France.

You obviously value the health of a religious nutjob more than the lives of 1000s of innocent people who are at risk. :sick:

See thats the problem i have with you.....you dont take the time to read the other peoples posts.... you just like the sound of your own voice.... what your doing is not called debating, its called "the robert mugabe complex" ...... so i think ill take my leave now.

Have fun hope you get to visit disneyland one day :)
 
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Ah Mugabe. I guess that means you were once a fan of mine :D
 
Okay, okay I've done some more research and seen the error of my ways. I'll no longer defend the fascist empire since I've no reached enlightenment with the following discloser of inhuman despicable treatment of detainees.

Meals totaling a whopping 4,200 calories a day are brought to their cells, well above the 2,000 to 3,000 calories recommended for weight maintenance by U.S. government dietary guidelines. And some inmates are eating everything on the menu.

One detainee has almost doubled in weight, to 410 pounds, said Navy Commander Robert Durand, spokesman for the detention facilities at Guantanamo, a U.S. Navy station in southeast Cuba.

http://www.nysun.com/national/high-calorie-menu-makes-guantanamo-detainees-fat/40887/

They feeding them to death with greasy high calarie American food. Oh the humanity. I bet they dream of the days when they ate dirt in those 'anti Chinese' camps in Afghanistan.
 
Okay, okay I've done some more research and seen the error of my ways. I'll no longer defend the fascist empire since I've no reached enlightenment with the following discloser of inhuman despicable treatment of detainees.



http://www.nysun.com/national/high-calorie-menu-makes-guantanamo-detainees-fat/40887/

They feeding them to death with greasy high calarie American food. Oh the humanity. I bet they dream of the days when they ate dirt in those 'anti Chinese' camps in Afghanistan.

Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing a person on their back with the head inclined downward—known as the Trendelenburg position—and pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages.[1][2] Through forced suffocation and inhalation of water, the subject experiences the process of drowning and is made to believe that death is imminent.[3] In contrast to merely submerging the head face-forward, waterboarding almost immediately elicits the gag reflex.[4] Although waterboarding does not always cause lasting physical damage, it carries the risks of extreme pain, damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation, injuries (including broken bones) due to struggling against restraints, and even death.[5] The psychological effects on victims of waterboarding can last for years after the procedure.[6]

Waterboarding was used for interrogation at least as early as the Spanish Inquisition to obtain information,[7] coerce confessions, punish, and intimidate. It is considered to be torture by a wide range of authorities, including legal experts,[5][8] politicians, war veterans,[9][10] intelligence officials,[11] military judges,[12] and human rights organizations.[13][14] Despite its long use as a technique, the first actual use of the term "waterboarding" in the media occurred on May 13, 2004, in the New York Times. In 2007 waterboarding led to a political scandal in the United States when the press reported that the CIA had waterboarded extrajudicial prisoners and that the Justice Department had authorized this procedure.[15][16] The CIA is known to have used waterboarding on at least three Al-Qaida suspects: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri.[17][18]


Anyway so the usa never used torture hay?
 
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With this unholy concentration camp in the news once again, it's perhaps a good time to do some reflection on what we are actually dealing with here:

Johann Hari
The Independent, London
GUANTANAMO BAY (Mar 10, 2007)

Guantanamo Bay -- America's shining torture camp on a hill -- is humming with new activity this week. Fourteen newbies have arrived, almost certainly from secret CIA prisons in Eastern Europe, where they have been waterboarded into passivity. They include Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, accused of masterminding the 9/11 massacres, and a man known as Hambali who allegedly planned the Bali bombing in which 200 innocent clubbers were incinerated. There won't be much time to settle in: the show-trials begin immediately. In these new military tribunals, the defendants can be shut out of their own trial at any time (along with their lawyers), evidence acquired via torture is admissible, and the accused can end up convicted on the basis of evidence they have not seen and cannot challenge.

The Bush administration propaganda -- we don't torture, there will be a fair legal process -- is unusually ridiculous, even by their standards. When Congress tried to pass a blanket ban on the use of torture by U.S. forces last year, the president demanded an exemption for the CIA. What is that, if not a tacit admission? In what way are these trials fair? We have become so numbed to the idea of Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and Bagram Airbase after five years that it's worth remembering: we are talking about a string of prison camps where a democratic country, supported by us, is torturing people to death.

All this fascination with the USA and yet not one pro Arab/Muslim voice is raised when an Egyptian blogger is arrested and tortured for talking against the regime - not one peep, how the silence is deafening!

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080602191256.lo26tc68&show_article=1

The people in Guantanamo Bay arn't there because they've been farming roses, they there because they've done some damn nasty stuff - and if one or two were in the wrong place at the wrong time, small price to pay for world safety!
 
All this fascination with the USA and yet not one pro Arab/Muslim voice is raised when an Egyptian blogger is arrested and tortured for talking against the regime - not one peep, how the silence is deafening!

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080602191256.lo26tc68&show_article=1

The people in Guantanamo Bay arn't there because they've been farming roses, they there because they've done some damn nasty stuff - and if one or two were in the wrong place at the wrong time, small price to pay for world safety!

Again, i would like to see your face when your country is invaded by another your wife,gf,sister,mother raped....your dad,brothers,grandfather ectect shot......im sure you will see it as making the world a safer place....
 
The CIA is known to have used waterboarding on at least three Al-Qaida suspects: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri.[17][18][/B]


Anyway so the usa never used torture hay?

And you say I never read your posts :rolleyes:

3 suspects. Wow it's rampant out of control butchery. Poor Abu the humble barber. Plucked out of nowhere and tortured. Why? Because the bloodthirsty neocon satan reincarnates just get off on it :cool:
 
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