HDD speed and boot time

Conradl

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So we were discussing SDD versus HDD, and it made me think: While SDD is faster than HDD; how much faster is it in reality, i.e. what impact does it have on general use? So I tested it:

Test setup:

1 x 2GB RAMDISK (I do not have an SDD)
1 x 300GB Seagate HDD

I created a single Windows XP SP3 VM on a 1.4 GB vdisk, running VMware workstation 6.5.

Installed HDTune and vmtools. This vdisk was then copied to a 2GB RAM disk, and a 300 GB HDD.

I then created a batch file to run in the startup folder, to time-stamp a point in the Windows startup. I used the VMlog to measure the exact time the VM started (pushed the play button), i.e. to get the beginning of the startup routine and a point near the end of the startup routine.

Benchmark

HDTune of vdisk on the 300GB HDD (Average 3 runs)

Min 28.0 MB/s
Max 82.7 MB/s
Average 76.2 MB/s
Access Time 6.5 ms
Burst 718.2 MB/s

HDTune of vdisk on 2GB RAMDISK (Average of 3 runs)

Min 259.8 MB/s
Max 509.0 MB/s
Average 464.4 MB/s
Access Time 0.1 ms
Burst 564.3 MB/s

Startup of Windows on vdisk on the 300GB HDD (Average 3 runs)

42 Seconds

Startup of Windows on vdisk on 2GB RAMDISK (Average of 3 runs)

35 Seconds

Conclusion

A Ramdisk, and therefore an SDD, blows the pants off an HDD in a benchmark. However, in a realistic measurement (Windows startup), it would seem that the impressive benchmark translates to a slightly less dramatic improvement in startup times.

A quick review of the performance monitor (running a VM allows one to measure the underlying hardware at startup, which cannot be done on a physical machine), suggests a performance bottleneck at the processor, as well as a lower than anticipated IO rate on the physical disk.

This reliance on the CPU, and lower than expected disk IO, further reduces the positive impact of a faster disk. If the disk is only used for 20% of the startup routine, then it's impact would be minimal.

Of course this is only a single test and other applications may perform differently, especially those with a high disk IO, low CPU rate. I must mention that the XP install took less than 7 minutes, from start to finish (automated XP install, including VMtools install :)), and in that instance the Ramdisk was REALLY quick (during the file copy part).

It should also be noted that an SDD may have a reduced performance when compared to a RAMdisk, as the SATA interface is slower than RAM. So these figures represent the upper mark for current and short term SDD disks.

Unfortunately SDD disks are still too small, and therefore not suitable for storage, and will therefore not fully benefit from the improved speed....
 
My Netbook has an SSD and boot time is super amazing. At work we have an HDD version and boot time is slow compare to my SSD, as in very slow.

But try when it comes writing to the drive then its reverse. HDD is fast while SSD is slow. It all depends on your requirements.
 
My SSD is amazing... R2000 well worth spend. Feels like I have a 16 core 10ghz machine. Seriously though, windows etc load faster, everything that you click just happens. Mine is only 60gb but far enough for windows and games. :) If anyone want to upgrade their machine...SSD is the way to go. (won't get u better fps in crysis)
 
SSDs are cute and speed up boot times, shut downs and program loading but otherwise they have issues. Except for Intel based X-25m drives most others are subpar. Possibly Toshiba is a second but other makes have issues - especially when you get into the 'full disk needs overwriting of deleted data' territory. With the huge sticker price and possibly sub-par performance after realistic usage - there are valid reasons not to install an SSD.

I have a netbook with a 64GB Toshiba and it's 90% empty and it runs nicely but I bet the moment it approaches capacity it will become dog slow.

SSDs are better for portable machines I think. With an SSD (and no fan) you can go on a trampoline with your netbook and compute that way - otherwise unless employing good shock absorption a HDD runs the dangers of crashing if you move it too much.
 
My Netbook has an SSD and boot time is super amazing. .

Thats exactly what I was attempting to determine; how fast is super amazing - and is it worth the money?

Fastest boot time on the RAMDisk was 34 seconds versus 41 seconds on an HDD. Additional tests on other apps show a similar performance gain.

The reason, having looked at the performance logs, is that the disk is only being accessed for approximately 20-25% of the boot process (or approx 10 seconds in total). If you reduced the 10 seconds to 1 second, you would still have 30 seconds left that was not dependent on the disk; resulting in a 30 second boot time.

The numbers for Office applications are about the same. Opening a large spreadsheet for example places more demand on the CPU than the disk. Again around 50% of opening the process is dependent on disk, on a process that only runs for 5 seconds. If you reduce the disk access time from 2.5 seconds to 1 you only gain 1.5 seconds when opening a spreadsheet....
 
You guys do realize that you get different types of ssds right?

Generally the ssds that come built in with netbooks are cheap crappy ones with jmicron controllers.

An ssd with an intel or indilinx controller is much, much faster.
 
You guys do realize that you get different types of ssds right?

Generally the ssds that come built in with netbooks are cheap crappy ones with jmicron controllers.

An ssd with an intel or indilinx controller is much, much faster.

Yeah, that's why I used a RAMdisk; to remove the brand skew that different vendors would introduce. Also the stats suggest that removing the total time spent on disk IO from the equation (i.e. the disk was infinitely fast) would only reduce the load times by 1/4.

But it is a good point, could somebody with an SSD please upload HDTune stats to compare the SSD to a RAMDisk?
 
I have a Corsair 64GB SSD without cache or buffer that runs at 170/100. I compared it to a WD 500GB black and it was faster but not by too much.

Yesterday I bought a 256GB Samsung that is apparently the same as the P256GB Corsair and runs at 220/200, I will bench them when I get back to CT I will do some tests.
 
Damn, JUGGY! You got too much spare cash... that's a R10K drive! Adopt me and buy me one! :D
 
SSD make normal hdd's look slow.

Peter you are talking out your ass again, you have a SSD but cannot fill it to see if it slows down? i mean WTF man test shyte before you comment it. I have 90gb on g.skill ssd and it has not slowed down once.

SSD's are so fast i think. I have a samsung 128gb and a g.skill 128 and believe me they are much much faster than a normal drive.

People spend 5k on mobo's and 3-4k on cpu's but then go as cheap as possible with their hdd's which amazes me, your hdd is the biggest bottleneck in a decent system, adding an ssd to even a celeron pc will speed it dramatically. Everything runs so much faster on an ssd but people who think thats a lie or not the truth are just cheap and want to believe that ssd's don't make your system that fast :D.

Also remember xp is not the best OS for an ssd, vista and windows 7 really get the performance out an ssd.

The only reason people do not buy ssd's is because people like peter talk crap about them without testing them even when they own one and because of the price but the price is worth it in my opinion.
 
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I think the problem in this case is Conrad's testing analogy.

Yes you're running on a RAMdisk, but you're running a VM on top of it. A lot of your boot time seem to hang on hardware initialisation routines.

On my laptop, the desktop might appear blazingly fast, but the loading of any additional apps after that is what slows things down. It can take as much as 5 minutes of needless thrashing before everything is completely loaded. An SSD should increase that immensely.
 
No, the reason we don't go buy them right now is the cost. I paid R1.4K for a mobo, R2.5K for a CPU and kept with a 500GB WD Caviar Black because, unfortunately, I like to get as much space for my money as possible. I can't wait for SSD to drop significantly in price so that it is close to the cost of an HD. We all wouldn't be complaining about SSD drives if that was the only option there, but these days with people using alot more space they will still go for the cheapest price-per-gig solution.

I would like to get a 32GB or 64GB SSD for my main drive. It will host OS and apps and then each app is setup to use a normal hard disk for its data. However, at R5K it isn't quite justifiable considering the fact that probably in the next year what one paid R5K for is probably going to be R1K. :P

Imagine how all those guys felt so many years ago spending R10K on a CD player.

It's all worth it if you've got cash to chuck around.

I'm also not sure testing boot times on a virtual machine is not indicative of the performance of SSDs anyway. It's still all hosted on a normal disk-based host. Re-do the boot tests with an installed SSD.
 
I dunno hey i think 5k seems a bit much and i am not sure about your pricing to be honest

locally http://www.landmarkpc.co.za/store/a...Csid=65bdd1ef2074ea7d1354a93333141561&x=0&y=0

You can pick them up for under 3k.
If money was so important to you why did you buy a 1.4k mobo and 2.5k cpu? Surely there are cheaper options? My point is people are happy to drop 2.5k on cpu but 2.4k on HDD is just shocking to them which amuses me because the speed increase you get from an ssd is just insane. People spend 10-14k on i7 but then moan about a 4k ssd :D. I would rather have my q9550 with a 128gb gskill ssd than an i7 with 7200 rpm drive.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...rder=BESTMATCH&Description=ocz+vertex&x=0&y=0

Newegg 128gb ocz vertex 299 dolla x 7.50 using myus.com to import will set you back around 3k.

So SSD's are not that expensive when you think people will buy a 2.5k cpu but not a 3k ssd :D. I also doubt the price of an ssd will come down dramatically anytime soon. SSD though is not really of any use for the light pc user and gamers i think, offers very little. People who want a very fast computer and look at cpu to get that speed also are on the wrong track. No point having a blazing fast cpu and slow ass 7200 rpm drive :D because the cpu will be waiting for hdd to respond where as an SSD responds almost instantly compared to a 7200 drive.

I have purchased many pc parts but the best money i have ever spent was my g.skill for 3k and samsung ssd for 2k.
 
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All good and well when you're doing alot of drive IO. Last I checked the CPU was doing the processing and not the drive.

Some of the apps I use for transcoding do alot of drive IO, but last I checked hammering a SSD for writes wasn't the best thing to do.

So you boot faster and apps open faster, but if you apps are not reliant all the time on disk IO and sit in memory then where's the gain?

As for my choice of hardware; R2.5K on CPU 'cos that's what I wanted and R1.4K on board because in the market I was looking at the nearest competitor was R600 more for no extra gain.

If I do get an SSD, I won't be looking for the entry-level speed item. It'll be one of those 220/200 goodies. :) I just seem to be built that way. :D I mean, if we need to go for speed why not go for the best speed? So for the lower speed SSD, the pricing under R3K locally seems to hold, but for the faster drives which I'd aim for the pricing is still steep.

BTW, I have a P4 3GHz here on a socket478 if you are interested. With an SSD it'll be like an i7 apparently. You interested?
 
so, taking you guys comments etc, an ssd should really speed up work for architectural design? Me dads an architect, and I got him a PC earlier this year, I under the asumption that more RAM would help got him 12GB's of it. now I'm thinking if I can maybe sell some of the RAM and get him an ssd he would see a good improvement. I've been shopping around and notice a plethora of ssd drives. which brand should I go for. Budget just about R2k if I manage to sell the RAM. any ideas guys?
 
Just make sure the drive has an Indilinx controller. Prophecy have some 64gig drives for R2700 last i checked.
 
SSD make normal hdd's look slow.

Peter you are talking out your ass again, you have a SSD but cannot fill it to see if it slows down? i mean WTF man test shyte before you comment it. I have 90gb on g.skill ssd and it has not slowed down once.

The Intel drive is still the best of the best. Yes, it, and other SSDs do get slower over time and later in this article I’ll explain why it happens and why it’s not as big of a deal as you’d think. The issues I complained about with the JMicron drives from last year are still alive and well today; they’re just somewhat occluded.

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3531

I don't want to get into arguments with fanboys like you who don't know what they're talking about but go read the link. Intel SSD drives are way ahead of the competition and slow down the least with usage.

When a drive reaches capacity the drive suffers additional overheads when deleting old data and overwriting it with new. It's a complicated process and only Intel has the edge on it. I haven't seen any data on Toshiba drives so I'm hopeful that they're more like Intel than OCZ/Vertex/Samsung and other lower tier cheaper drives but hey if I were to buy an SSD I would go for a Gen 2 Intel X25-m.

SSD's are so fast i think. I have a samsung 128gb and a g.skill 128 and believe me they are much much faster than a normal drive.

Perhaps they are but for a bit more you'd get a far superior Intel drive.

People spend 5k on mobo's and 3-4k on cpu's but then go as cheap as possible with their hdd's which amazes me, your hdd is the biggest bottleneck in a decent system, adding an ssd to even a celeron pc will speed it dramatically. Everything runs so much faster on an ssd but people who think thats a lie or not the truth are just cheap and want to believe that ssd's don't make your system that fast :D.

No it's not the biggest bottleneck. It depends on what you use the machine for. For starting the OS and starting apps and shutting down the OS they are the biggest bottle neck but while operating the computer the CPU or GPU are the biggest bottlenecks and even then often it's the memory controller and memory clock which is the biggest bottleneck.

Also remember xp is not the best OS for an ssd, vista and windows 7 really get the performance out an ssd.

That's not true. You can disable the same things which Win 7 disables in OS and have the same performance. Secondly most optimisations such as the ones employed by Intel (and what makes Intel kick Samsung's a-ss) is on chip - that's all confidential stuff - all on the controller chip and independent of the OS. Disabling Defrag, disabling indexing, last time accessed and a few other things puts your XP machine in Win 7/OSX territory.

The only reason people do not buy ssd's is because people like peter talk crap about them without testing them even when they own one and because of the price but the price is worth it in my opinion.

And people like Anand of Anandtech. Somehowe I'm sure Anand has more respect than your 'humble' opinion. The only fanboy here is you, go play with your SSD, you've said enough already.

Folks don't buy the stuff this sore ass guy has bought - only go for Intel SSDs and avoid Vertex/Samsung/etc. Don't be a sore looser like killa who could have waited a bit longer and bought a far superior drive. :)

(I hate becoming as childish as this killa guy).
 
Just make sure the drive has an Indilinx controller. Prophecy have some 64gig drives for R2700 last i checked.

Spend a bit more and get an Intel SSD. You won't regret it, alternatively use a magnetic drive till Intel drops prices more or the competition catches up.

Even the G1, in its used state, is faster than the fastest Indilinx drive. In 4KB random writes the G1 is even faster than an SLC Indilinx drive. Intel doesn't need to touch the G1, the only thing faster than it is the G2. Still, I do wish that Intel would be generous to its loyal customers that shelled out $600 for the first X25-M. It just seems like the right thing to do. Sigh.

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3631&p=11
 
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Well there is no point in having 12gb of memory if the program does not use it.

I am not sure what program he uses but a ssd speeds up your entire pc. Rift last time i checked in order for the cpu to do processing it needed to be feed, so while the cpu does do all the processing have a drive reading and writing much much faster would obviously allow the cpu to process faster.

Not to mention SSD drives at the moment have read write speeds approaching 200mb/s for both read and write, which is just incredible for heavy duty processing.

I work in the print industry and sometimes work with files that are 200-300 meg in size so maybe i notice how good an ssd is compared to a 7200rpm because i utilize it's power more than someone who checks his email and plays games :) but if i was putting together a monster pc i would without a doubt have an SSD as one of the top components in the monster pc :D.
 
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I think the problem in this case is Conrad's testing analogy.

Yes you're running on a RAMdisk, but you're running a VM on top of it. A lot of your boot time seem to hang on hardware initialisation routines.

On my laptop, the desktop might appear blazingly fast, but the loading of any additional apps after that is what slows things down. It can take as much as 5 minutes of needless thrashing before everything is completely loaded. An SSD should increase that immensely.

Nothing wrong with my testing, it is the only way to successfully test the demands placed on windows startup, since perfmon cannot run before the OS is booted.

Also I am running both the HDD and the faster HDD equivelent in the same environment, so they would both suffer from the same degradation in performance. The aim here is not to test the startup speed, but the impact of disk performance on startup speed.

I have uploaded some graphs to substantiate the test findings:

HDD: http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/showphoto.php/photo/12619
SSD: http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/showphoto.php?photo=12620&cat=500

The blue line is the combined read and write IOPs. The purple line is processor queue, indicating the processor is queing commands and therefore a bottleneck. If you look at the blue line, you see that the disk IO is only high for a relatively short period of time. The HDD has a Disk queue length representing an HDD bottleneck (the SDD does not have this).

The assumption is that if the disk IO for a slow disk is only high for the period of time indicated (25%), then the total system performance improvement of implementing a faster disk can only be 25%.

So while SDD is faster, much faster; I believe that one should be realistic of the performance benefits that can be achieved from implementing one.
 
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