Hezbollah ain't no pushovers

schitz011 said:
no I mean decades... Fine, it won't be Bush, but it will be his successor (I don't think the yanks are quite gulliable just yet to allow that change of constitution, but it will happen. Already Americans enjoy far fewer 'freedoms' than they did 5 years ago and it;s only a matter of time before the government cooks up a plan to change the constitution, ooh like 'the war on terror'...)

I doubt the republicans will win the next election. All the democrats have to do to win is pick a half decent candidate.

As for changing the consitution, I'm no expert on US politics but I'm pretty sure that making that sort of change to it is something far beyond the power of the presidency and I seriously doubt the whole of congress would back that.
 
oh and hizbollah are chicken sh%%, they are push overs, the only problem being they love their brothers so much they use them as human shields
 
icyrus said:
As for changing the consitution, I'm no expert on US politics but I'm pretty sure that making that sort of change to it is something far beyond the power of the presidency and I seriously doubt the whole of congress would back that.

Seems it only requires a two thirds majority.. Also the last time I cared to look I believe that congress was majority Republican, though of course that may have changed..

'Amending the Constitution

The first Congress to conduct business under the authority of the new Constitution met in New York City on March 4, 1789. The issue of a bill of rights was proposed at once, and the new government began following constitutional procedures to change, or amend, the document. According to the Constitution itself, amendments must be approved by at least two thirds of the members of each house of Congress and by three quarters of the states. (There is also an alternate amendment process that has never been used.)

Taken from http://ap.grolier.com/article?assetid=a2030370-h&templatename=/article/article.html

busy looking to see what this 'alternate amendment process' is

*edit*
Found it..

"Popular Amendment

One other way of amendment is also not mentioned in the Constitution, and, because it has never been used, is lost on many students of the Constitution. Framer James Wilson, however, endorsed popular amendment, and the topic is examined at some length in Akhil Reed Amar's book, The Constitution: A Biography.

The notion of popular amendment comes from the conceptual framework of the Constitution. Its power derives from the people; it was adopted by the people; it functions at the behest of and for the benefit of the people. Given all this, if the people, as a whole, somehow demanded a change to the Constitution, should not the people be allowed to make such a change? As Wilson noted in 1787, "... the people may change the constitutions whenever and however they please. This is a right of which no positive institution can ever deprive them."

It makes sense - if the people demand a change, it should be made. The change may not be the will of the Congress, nor of the states, so the two enumerated methods of amendment might not be practical, for they rely on these institutions. The real issue is not in the conceptual. It is a reality that if the people do not support the Constitution in its present form, it cannot survive. The real issue is in the practical. Since there is no process specified, what would the process be? There are no national elections today - even elections for the presidency are local. There is no precedent for a national referendum. It is easy to say that the Constitution can be changed by the people in any way the people wish. Actually making the change is another story altogether."

So it would seem that if, say the Americans put it to a national vote, then they could change the constitution, but as pointed out above, it's most unlikely to happen seeing as it hasn't happened in 230 years of independence...
 
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kingmonty said:
@icyrus: another bush may well become US president: Jeb
Now there be a good Hebrew name: Jeb

Jeb = a short form of JEBEDIAH
 
Sunnic said:
lets just face it..

no matter what leaders or people say.
at the end of the day it is ....
they are atticking ISLAM.


------------------------

FREE PALESTINE
stop the killing of inoccent women and children

Lets face nothing, they're defending themselves from Islam! Lets not lose sight of who started this little debacle shall we. hamas kidnapped a soldier (forcing Israel back into gaza,) then hizbollah kidnapped 2 soldiers precipitating the current face off in lebanon.

a few days ago the media was reporting that more then 3000 rockets had landed in israel. hizbollah as the aggressor and initiator of the violence not only kill women and children they aim for them. Israel on the other hand at least tries to only hit military targets. Who is devoid of morals here?

Israel has had lasting peace with egypt and jordan for a number of years, but the extremists in syria, iran and the palestinian territories will not rest until israel is destroyed, so excuse israel for being impolite if they dont just sit back and ask hizbollah to please stop blowing up children and if they get a chance could to return the soldiers if they dont mind.

Primitive mindsets only understand primitive ideas therefore israel is schooling these militant extremists in brute force, and god have mercy on them if they think israel has even flexed half its military muscle yet. Israel was established under mandate of the un and as a recognised, legitimate, democratic state is fully entitled to their right to defend themselves against an unprovoked attack from an illegitimate rogue militia
 
SuperAntMD said:
Lets face nothing, they're defending themselves from Islam! Lets not lose sight of who started this little debacle shall we. hamas kidnapped a soldier (forcing Israel back into gaza,) then hizbollah kidnapped 2 soldiers precipitating the current face off in lebanon.

a few days ago the media was reporting that more then 3000 rockets had landed in israel. hizbollah as the aggressor and initiator of the violence not only kill women and children they aim for them. Israel on the other hand at least tries to only hit military targets. Who is devoid of morals here?

Israel has had lasting peace with egypt and jordan for a number of years, but the extremists in syria, iran and the palestinian territories will not rest until israel is destroyed, so excuse israel for being impolite if they dont just sit back and ask hizbollah to please stop blowing up children and if they get a chance could to return the soldiers if they dont mind.

Primitive mindsets only understand primitive ideas therefore israel is schooling these militant extremists in brute force, and god have mercy on them if they think israel has even flexed half its military muscle yet. Israel was established under mandate of the un and as a recognised, legitimate, democratic state is fully entitled to their right to defend themselves against an unprovoked attack from an illegitimate rogue militia



agressor? dont forget who stole who's land and who started the killing first, as you say for every action there is a reaction!
 
hamas kidnapped a soldier (forcing Israel back into gaza,) then hizbollah kidnapped 2 soldiers precipitating the current face off in lebanon.

Yeah, I bet those soldiers were just out for a stroll, or sunning themselves on the beach at the time, poor things.

Really, is it accurate to call the capture of a soldier "kidnapping"? I'm sure they weren't entirely defenceless, and I'm sure they were trying to "kidnap" the hamas/hezbollah militia at the time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending anyone here, and not making judgements about who the original aggressor was. I just think that it is inaccurate to talk about kidnapping.
 
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antowan said:
I just think it is important to note that there isn't much of a choice (strategy wise) for Israel but to attack infrastructure in Lebanon. They are not doing it because they are mean, or because they can. They are doing it because it is the only effective way of stemming insurgents.


Good point , Mr. Moderator :D

However , one cannot use military tactics to destroy infrastructure and expect to defeat insurgents .

It should be noted that a country can be bombed 'back to the stone age' (to quote a former USAF general during the Vietnam war) but you still will not reach your military objectives.

I don't know how the IDF is going to defeat their opponents - but doing it by using aircraft to bomb the infrastructure (and related military actions ) is not going to help.

Other approaches than military force should be considered. You cannot and will not destroy an ideology by military force - ask the U.S. on this during Vietnam and present day Iraq.
 
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chiskop said:
Yeah, I bet those soldiers were just out for a stroll, or sunning themselves on the beach at the time, poor things.

Really, is it accurate to call the capture of a soldier "kidnapping"? I'm sure they weren't entirely defenceless, and I'm sure they were trying to "kidnap" the hamas/hezbollah militia at the time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending anyone here, and not making judgements about who the original aggressor was. I just think that it is inaccurate to talk about kidnapping.

When you are at war you capture soldiers, when you are at peace you kidnap soldiers. Israel was'nt at war with Hizbollah when her soldiers were kidnapped, they are now at war with Hizbollah so any soldiers taken by either side could now be considered as captured.

There's no judgements to make as to who the original aggressor was, it was Hizbollah, they crossed their border, attacked, killed and kidnapped Israeli Soldiers, all of this occured within Israel.
 
Technically I believe that Israel and Lebanon at least, have been at war since 1967. How that affects Hezbollah is probably a moot point.

Of course, Hizbollah only crossed the border after Israel shelled a family on the beach, and Israel only did that after a earlier "kidnapping", which was retaliation for etc etc etc ad infinitum.
 
Israel only attacked after Hizbollah attacked their soldiers in Israel.
The soldiers were patrolling the border on their own side when Hizbollah attacked.

This isnt politics that you can debate over, facts are facts, all the killing started after the initial kidnapping.

How many times do I have to copy and paste this little fact before people geddit?
 
Did anyone actually click on my link? I thought a little levity would help this thread, but oh well.
 
neio said:
Israel only attacked after Hizbollah attacked their soldiers in Israel.
The soldiers were patrolling the border on their own side when Hizbollah attacked.

This isnt politics that you can debate over, facts are facts, all the killing started after the initial kidnapping.

How many times do I have to copy and paste this little fact before people geddit?

Ok, so you have your views, however other news sources disagree with you...
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/israeli_solders.html

This contains links to 10 credible news sources indicating otherwise...
 
schitz011 said:
Ok, so you have your views, however other news sources disagree with you...
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/israeli_solders.html

This contains links to 10 credible news sources indicating otherwise...

10 credible news sources huh?
[Bahrain News Agency 7/12/06]
[Hindustan Times 7/12/06]
[chinabroadcast 7/12/06]

The last 2 report dont say anything except:

Only weeks ago, an entire reserve division was drafted in order to train for an operation such as the one the IDF is planning in response to Wednesday morning's Hizbullah attacks on IDF forces along the northern border. [JPost 7/12/06]

Israel's military response by air, land and sea to what it considered a provocation last week by Hezbollah militants is unfolding according to a plan finalized more than a year ago.

In the years since Israel ended its military occupation of southern Lebanon, it watched warily as Hezbollah built up its military presence in the region. When Hezbollah militants kidnapped two Israeli soldiers last week, the Israeli military was ready to react almost instantly. [SFGate 7/21/06]

Where do you see that the Israeli soldiers were inside Lebanon when they were kidnapped.?
 
neio said:
10 credible news sources huh?
[Bahrain News Agency 7/12/06]
[Hindustan Times 7/12/06]
[chinabroadcast 7/12/06]

Why are they not any less credible than western media?
You really believe that everything you get fed by the 'western media' is what actually happens?

Open your eyes.. Your nick is Neio.. Try and be more like your namesake and see whats really going on..
 
Lol, this http://whatreallyhappened.com/ is getting funnier and funnier.

If I was'nt a conspiracy fan myself I would have decried the website as a conspiracy. Actually hilarious in the way they blame all that happens on USA/Israel. Funny ****.
 
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