How do I know if I'm ready

John_Phoenix said:
Career24, is where developers go to die. Align your skillset with companies and people. You can't expect work to land in your lap, by using a search portal. You have to work for your spot, otherwise someone else is.

Alot of us have been there, self taught or uni qualified, and now what? I can't tell you what or how others have walked their path, but I started (at 16) by doing pro-bono work for people, and then getting in touch with them, and giving it to them. Yep, just handing over a few weeks of work, for nothing.

I'm a ui guy,
So I would pick an industry, pick a site that needed some ui love, and would look good on my portfolio, and then go ahead and build out an updated interface. I've done 17 projects like this, throughout the years, and only 2 people have said no thank you.

Don't think Facebook or Apple, think some local business in your area, or a south african based company that could use a refresh in some way.

From this I've received more payed work requests than I can remember, and a varied portfolio of code and design.

Embrace the grind, get used to thinking in systems, get used to slinging assets on command. Get used to thinking on your feet, these are the skills you need in addition to creating software.

Read the posts from the forum users above and below, (almost) every piece of info should inform your decision.

tl;dr Get started, and get ready to put in the hours.
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Thanks. I guess I'll have to add networking to my list of stuff to learn.
 
You might be ready for a career in journalism. That's the perfect clickbait headline.
 
John_Phoenix said:
Career24, is where developers go to die. Align your skillset with companies and people. You can't expect work to land in your lap, by using a search portal. You have to work for your spot, otherwise someone else is.

Alot of us have been there, self taught or uni qualified, and now what? I can't tell you what or how others have walked their path, but I started (at 16) by doing pro-bono work for people, and then getting in touch with them, and giving it to them. Yep, just handing over a few weeks of work, for nothing.

I'm a ui guy,
So I would pick an industry, pick a site that needed some ui love, and would look good on my portfolio, and then go ahead and build out an updated interface. I've done 17 projects like this, throughout the years, and only 2 people have said no thank you.

Don't think Facebook or Apple, think some local business in your area, or a south african based company that could use a refresh in some way.

From this I've received more payed work requests than I can remember, and a varied portfolio of code and design.

Embrace the grind, get used to thinking in systems, get used to slinging assets on command. Get used to thinking on your feet, these are the skills you need in addition to creating software.

Read the posts from the forum users above and below, (almost) every piece of info should inform your decision.

tl;dr Get started, and get ready to put in the hours.
Click to expand...
Don't really like this post, most companies will just take you for a ride, you will be spending a long time to get to the point where you can start charging if you go this way.
You can charge little if you like in order to start building a portfolio, but never do pro bono unless it's a friend you know's business, and even then you should get paid for it, even if it's a small token amount e.g. minimum wage.

And no, permanent grinding is terrible, work-life balance is needed, if you're doing tons of work for low pay, you're dragging the entire market down as people will pay less for it. Not that many can actually develop well, you have a needed skill, don't sell yourself short, you just need to be able to market yourself and find the opportunity.
 
@Johnatan56, right there with you, but he can't charge, sign a contract and then flake out and not deliver cause he is in over his head.

We don't want junior over here in the small claims court before he delivers his first app.

And working for cheap, you get treated like cheap. If he wants to go the freelance route, he needs to bring experience and knowledge to potentially a very fast paced and chaotic environment.

My pro-bono work is in addition to client work, so it's a question of capacity, something this person still has to learn.

And speaking of learning, we all have / had to experience "being taken for a ride". You and I can both spot an opportunist a mile away, and our friend here might still have to learn this, very valuable skill.

@Arandompeer You're seeing different viewpoints, considerations and experiences here, please don't think that one is "better" than the other. You have to establish and grow either with or despite what others say.

Learn from this mindshare and everyone here, learn from our experiences. And then walk your path with confidence.
 
I would consider some more personal projects.

Create a chat window on a website using one framework and make it hard to break.

Then try the same thing using another chat window, this time using ruby or whatever and make it hard to break.

Those are just examples. Pull some info through APIs and format them to your style. Domain WHOIS info etc.

Start simple and progress. Continue the process even after landing a job and add it to your portfolio.

It can be useful to have something entirely different on your portfolio than what you had been doing in a job for 3 years.
 
Johnatan56 said:
Finished a degree, applied to an internship, got a call an hour later for an interview, went for interview on the Monday, got an offer about two hours later.
Real job: finished next level of degree, made profile on offerzen, applied for job, got interview scheduled a week later, next day job offer.

But for most:
Web developer:

Build a small portfolio, e.g. pick a site you like and model a design after it and try and implement it using bootstrap. Just do the HTML+CSS. Upload that to github.
Then start a new project, model a site you like again, pick something like a blog, and make it so it uses JS to pull the content and use SASS or LESS.
Once you got that going, set up a Vue project, rebuild that site you just did.

You're now more than qualified as a junior for web development.

For design:
Create some designs, can wireframe them.

For back-end:
Build a hello world app. You can apply now.
Slightly more serious: know data structures, build an app that's interesting. Can be something as dumb as a console based hangman. Once you can do that, you'll be more than good enough to apply to most places as a junior. You'll need to be careful as to where you apply to, make sure you pick a place with at least ~3 software dev teams, you don't want to be stuck with a place where you can't have a good mentor.

Degree helps in pretty much all cases, you'll also need to specify what type of developer you want to be, the field is broad. You don't have to stick with it as well, you can always move over if you feel like something else is more your thing. Nothing is really expected of a junior besides that you really have a passion to learn and you fit company culture, depends again on company and position you apply for. Everything you make, keep uploading it to Github, show that you're working, constantly improving.

One thing to note with devs: age isn't everything, there are old devs that are bad, there are old devs that are absolutely amazing, there are young devs that are utter crap, there are also ones that are amazing, it all depends on mindset of wanting to learn and trying to solve a problem as well as possible, realizing that what was the best solution yesterday may not be the best solution today, the field is constantly changing and you need to keep up with that change.
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This is so terribly important. RE apply where you are in the company of other devs.

Biggest mistake I made is being the lone dev, I earn a lot, but I don't grow nearly as fast as I would've had I worked with a team of other more experienced devs.
 
Arandompeer said:
How do I know if I'm ready to start applying for junior developer jobs. I would like to know what skills are required and what would you say the ideal junior candidate would look like(not physically). If you could also share what your first developer job was and why you think you got it, that would be nice.
Click to expand...
You are always ready to start applying.

You present the skills you have and they will either need some one like you or they wont. Every company is different, some will prefer to take juniors and skill them up while others will only take experienced candidates.

If you want to start working then start applying.

EDIT: Its good to get experience with interviews and the process as well. You will learn about what is needed for these types of jobs.
 
You are never ready. You fake it. Then improvise. It’s even easier now with the internet. Back in the day we had to have reference manuals in the desk drawer :)

Good luck, welcome to the machine :)
 
Arandompeer said:
How do I know if I'm ready to start applying for junior developer jobs. I would like to know what skills are required and what would you say the ideal junior candidate would look like(not physically). If you could also share what your first developer job was and why you think you got it, that would be nice.
Click to expand...

Things probably changed quite a bit, but I started working before the likes of github, so just telling them I did some stuff was enough for them. A VB POS app for an internet cafe and a site in dreamweaver.
I also started when you could just start as a junior dev, now it seems most companies get their junior devs through an internship.

I think that is more than most new grads do, so if you have a portfolio of some sort, you have more experience than most.
In fact, most interns and even junior devs work on small parts of existing apps for the first year or so, especially in larger companies. If you created a couple of apps from scratch you're fine and have more experience than many of them (in some areas).

As interviewers, we know that people without any formal work experience don't know anything.

I have 15 years experience, and there's still a lot I need to learn. I will have a lot to learn till the day I die, so don't let that feeling scare you. I'd be more cautious hiring the junior dev that thinks they know a lot.

My advice is for someone who wants to work for a company. Seeing what some freelancers produce, you can probably do that as well.

Networking may serve you well if you want to go freelance, but if you just want to work for a company, just go the offerzen route. That should be enough.
Honestly, the bar is pretty low, I doubt you will have trouble.
 
You'll never be ready as work requirements and culture differ from team to team.

So, just pad your cv and spray and pray.
 
Barbarian Conan said:
Things probably changed quite a bit, but I started working before the likes of github, so just telling them I did some stuff was enough for them. A VB POS app for an internet cafe and a site in dreamweaver.
I also started when you could just start as a junior dev, now it seems most companies get their junior devs through an internship.

I think that is more than most new grads do, so if you have a portfolio of some sort, you have more experience than most.
In fact, most interns and even junior devs work on small parts of existing apps for the first year or so, especially in larger companies. If you created a couple of apps from scratch you're fine and have more experience than many of them (in some areas).

As interviewers, we know that people without any formal work experience don't know anything.

I have 15 years experience, and there's still a lot I need to learn. I will have a lot to learn till the day I die, so don't let that feeling scare you. I'd be more cautious hiring the junior dev that thinks they know a lot.

My advice is for someone who wants to work for a company. Seeing what some freelancers produce, you can probably do that as well.

Networking may serve you well if you want to go freelance, but if you just want to work for a company, just go the offerzen route. That should be enough.
Honestly, the bar is pretty low, I doubt you will have trouble.
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I did some freelance work but I think working in a structured environment will make me a better dev. Does offerzen accept applicants with no formal work experience and no degree/diploma? I just have a few udemy certs and a 1 year Microsoft IT academy cert through college of Ct.
 
Arandompeer said:
I did some freelance work but I think working in a structured environment will make me a better dev. Does offerzen accept applicants with no formal work experience and no degree/diploma? I just have a few udemy certs and a 1 year Microsoft IT academy cert through college of Ct.
Click to expand...

They should, but I've never actually used it. I just know that we recruit almost exclusively using it.
I'm not sure about interns, but that's not what you're after as far as I understand.
 
similar question to @Arandompeer
very experienced in one aspect of IT, and want to jump into more Dev work,

is it a matter of putting something on github, and seeing who bites, and willing to give you a go at becoming a dev?
or is it a matter of taking on free jobs, getting a "reasonable" portfolio and taking it from there?
 
eg2505 said:
similar question to @Arandompeer
very experienced in one aspect of IT, and want to jump into more Dev work,

is it a matter of putting something on github, and seeing who bites, and willing to give you a go at becoming a dev?
or is it a matter of taking on free jobs, getting a "reasonable" portfolio and taking it from there?
Click to expand...

Well, you need to add something to Github sooner or later.
No one is going to bite if they don't even know that you exist....

So... do some assessments from your interviews and add it to your repo in your Github account.
Also, do some courses, create the solutions, create repo, and push the solution to the repo. This should count as practice to get familiar with git.
This will also show to others that you are working in a consistent manner and uploading solutions every now and then. And it also tells them that you are building/have a habit of coding and pushing.

Also, very important... if you don't have any projects related to cloud services then they will lose interest. So, just do some small thing and throw some cloud terms around in your ReadMe file. Recruiters want to see this, not that they actually understand it but they will present you to their clients and they want to present someone that has dabbled with the "Latest and Greatest".

@WhiteRaven can advise as well. She has been a great help.
 
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