How efficiently does South Africa use electricity?

[LancelotSA]

Today I sat in on an interesting Stanlib Fund Focus meeting. At these meetings we share views on the economic outlook for South Africa, the world as a whole, whether America was entering a recession etc etc.... The usual economic feedback and predictions we have within the industry.

One aspect of the chat which obviously enjoyed a lot of interest from those present was the "power crisis" we hear about daily in this country and the effect of this on our market. Now I have made it clear elsewhere on this forum that I feel we are very wasteful of electricity within this country and felt that the fact that it is so cheap is partly to blame. No real reason for people to conserve power if it is not costing them anything...

In the meeting Kevin Lings looked at our ability as a nation to save between 10 and 15% of our current electricity consumption annually, as required by Eskom, to maintain our required reserves and to avoid the need for load shedding.

I was shocked by some of the figures presented as to South Africa's efficiency in electricity use when compared to other countries around the world. I requested a copy of the presentation so that I could share it with you guys. It would take a day or two to get a copy, so in my impatience I decided to do a little googling to see if someone else had done a similar study and low and behold I found Kevin's self same presentation on Moneyweb, so here it is for you guys to have a look at....

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page38?oid=195536&sn=Detail

 

[boramk]

there's no need for this, the crisis is over afaik

 

[Ricard]

TEST:

Go around your house and see how many Energy Saving light bulbs you have...

I recon the majority of people will say 'NONE'



Energy efficient globes use 4 or more times less energy than incandescent globes. Doesnt sound like much... but if the entire suburb changed to energy savers, thats a time of Megawats

 

[LancelotSA]

Ricard, that is the problem, most people assume they cannot make a difference and that it is someone else's problem.

I could not believe these figures... at least we beat Zim in the one graph, but on the other only two countries with climates that go well down into the negatives use power less efficiently than us!!!

 

[Ivork]

Energy efficient globes use 4 or more times less energy than incandescent globes. Doesnt sound like much... but if the entire suburb changed to energy savers, thats a time of Megawats

Cost 4 times much and last half as long IMHO........
I wouldn't be so sure about saving very many "megawatts" from a suburb of lights - unless it's a very big suburb.

Anyway, I've got them and try as I might, my bill is still 600 bucks or so a month! Obviously i have too much sh*t in my house that chows power!!

I wonder how many of those countries still have piped gas? My wife loves cooking and I'm sure it's that damn oven that chowes so much!

We used to have - still have the old gas meter. But botteled gas is even more expensive to run an oven around here so all the gas appliances, geysers etc got chucked out for electrical.

 

[BCO]

Cost 4 times much and last half as long IMHO........
I wouldn't be so sure about saving very many "megawatts" from a suburb of lights - unless it's a very big suburb.

Anyway, I've got them and try as I might, my bill is still 600 bucks or so a month! Obviously i have too much sh*t in my house that chows power!!

I wonder how many of those countries still have piped gas? My wife loves cooking and I'm sure it's that damn oven that chowes so much!

Actually, CFL light bulbs last longer than incandescent. Also, piped gas is quite cheap. I have it at home.

 

[Ricard]

Cost 4 times much and last half as long IMHO........
I wouldn't be so sure about saving very many "megawatts" from a suburb of lights - unless it's a very big suburb.

Supply and demand... the prices will come down if more people got energy savers.

Do some maths... an incandescent light is typically 100 Watt... an Energy saver light radiates the equivalent using 18Watts of energy.

Working per Hour here..
0.40c per KWH (assume) = 10 light bulbs use 1KWH. No-one usually has 10 lights on in their house at the same time.. but if 10 people done the same its a different story..

5 lights per house in a neighborhood of 50 houses for example.

100watts * 5 lights = 500watts
500watts x 50 houses = 25,000 Watts.

18watts * 5 lights = 90Watts
90watts * 50 houses = 4500 watts

Over 20KW Saving!!!



This is all forsaken by 'the cheap globe'.

 

[LancelotSA]

there's no need for this, the crisis is over afaik

Oh dear... you are terribly misinformed..... we will have this problem until 2012 and beyond....

I do not have the chart at my disposal, and am too lazy to search, but you will find when looking at South Africa's expected demand and predicted ability of Eskom to supply in the future we will get as low as 1.5% reserves in about 2012. The international recommendation, as well as Eskom's, is a minimum reserve of 15%.

Eskom's recommendation is that we become more energy efficient by cutting demand by 10-15%... that was the point of this thread. To show that is is possible by each one of us becoming more efficient.

 

[Paulr]

I started buying energy savers about 5/6 years ago purely because I find them to last a lot longer than normal bulbs.

Every light in my house has energy savers, and so far only one has blown...

 

[LancelotSA]

I started buying energy savers about 5/6 years ago purely because I find them to last a lot longer than normal bulbs.

Every light in my house has energy savers, and so far only one has blown...

You know what the thing is, even without the power problems we are currently experiencing in this country at the moment, people should still be looking at reducing their energy consumption even if just to reduce their personal carbon footprint... this is our country and our responsibility, but it is also our planet and the responsibility of each one of us!

As for the cost, if you ask around I'm sure you could get your globes changed to energy savers free of charge... we had guys knocking on our door just two months ago offering to swop out our globes!

 

[Moederloos]

I am no expert on what that guy wrote, but it seems flawed to me.
South Africa has industry that is VERY power hungry - and that is bound to skew the figures enormously.
He even says so much:

Obviously, the above potential savings sound extreme, and ignore some specific usage factors that are unique to South Africa. These include the fact that the country provides electricity to two Aluminium smelters within South Africa, in addition there are a large number of Ferro-chrome smelters, all of which consume a vast amount of electricity. Furthermore the mining sector is a particularly large consumer of electricity.

In addition, what portion of our electricity is wasted by "hauling" it all over the country?
Are we counting in exports? And, for that matter, is Botswana including imports in those figures (admit I am too lazy to read it all to see if it is mentioned).

So - will I make an appreciable difference by changing to energy bulbs? I doubt it. Do I save? Yes - to my detriment considering guavamint is now going to fine me if I do not save more - and I have been frugal to the point of fanaticism for years already.

 

[LancelotSA]

You admit to being too lazy to read the entire article, which is the point of the whole thread, and that is just a little annoying. If you have enough energy to respond then please at least have enough to read everything.... it makes responses pretty pointless if you haven't. But I will not be so rude as to ignore what you posted....

I am no expert on what that guy wrote, but it seems flawed to me.
South Africa has industry that is VERY power hungry - and that is bound to skew the figures enormously.
He even says so much:

Yes, he does. But if you weren't so lazy you would see that in the previous passage he stated that "if South Africa was able to operate at just the average level of efficiency of the 13 countries surveyed, the country would save 50% of its electricity consumption and still produce the current economic output". He then, in the line you have chosen to quote, gives the benefit of the doubt to the sceptics and states that even after factoring in the smelters and the mines we are undoubtedly a very inefficient user of electricity. Do you not think any of those countries who are more efficient than use have smelters and mine? Only Slovak and Russia are worse than us!

In addition, what portion of our electricity is wasted by "hauling" it all over the country? Are we counting in exports? And, for that matter, is Botswana including imports in those figures (admit I am too lazy to read it all to see if it is mentioned).

"The International Energy Agency provides electricity-consumption-per-person data " .... not sure why this independant agency with no ties to Eskom would decide to skew these figures in South Africa's case. They were not hired by Eskom to provide this data! Do other countries not use the same methods to distribute their electricity?

So - will I make an appreciable difference by changing to energy bulbs? I doubt it. Do I save? Yes - to my detriment considering guavamint is now going to fine me if I do not save more - and I have been frugal to the point of fanaticism for years already.

Well good on you... but I bet if you looked around your house you will find many instances of unneccessary wastage. The problem is we have become so used to cheap power in this country that people use it willy nilly without being concerned about the costs. Limit something or make it expensive and see how quickly people keep an eye on their usage (anyone know their Gb's used this month?)

I think you are being skeptical and arguementative for the sake of it and you almost admitted to this when you said you did not bother reading the entire article...

If you can come up with some data that shows that we are extremely efficient electricity users in this country then I will be willing to reconsider my view....

 

[Moederloos]

Well good on you... but I bet if you looked around your house you will find many instances of unneccessary wastage.

I do not enjoy paying for electricity. Everything I use I think about. You are not an expert on my consumption habits.

I think you are being skeptical and arguementative for the sake of it and you almost admitted to this when you said you did not bother reading the entire article...

Totally irrelevant what you think about me. Besides, skepticism is perfectly valid - or do you want a group of yes men to fawn on your every word?
And I was not being argumentative.

If you can come up with some data that shows that we are extremely efficient electricity users in this country then I will be willing to reconsider my view....

I never once claimed we were - I am just heartily sick and tired of being told that us [household]consumers can make a difference - we cannot make any appreciable difference at all - unless someone is willing to actually wake up in guavamint and start handing out hefty rebates for solar conversion and gas appliances. Don't hold your breath.

Big industry, mines, smelters and exports are the problem and the major users.

 

[LancelotSA]

I never once claimed we were - I am just heartily sick and tired of being told that us [household]consumers can make a difference - we cannot make any appreciable difference at all.

Do you mind explaining then how Eskom happens to save electricity in a month then by using load shedding? How does this save them any power if household consumers consume so little?

 

[Moederloos]

Do you mind explaining then how Eskom happens to save electricity in a month then by using load shedding? How does this save them any power if household consumers consume so little?

I seem to recall our businesses being off during those times...

And besides, you are either intentionally being misleading or have not thought it through all the way.
Our suburb is on ripple switches, so if geysers consume the most power during the day, as we are told, then why load shed a suburb with ripple controls? Because they are not load shedding the houses - they are load shedding the businesses in there. With the exception of geysers, most households are "OFF" during the day - so load shedding in the daytime then makes zero sense.
Secondly, if they load shed in the "house hold peaks" they are shedding at the BRIEF times when power usage is high there - as when people cook. Households overall, as a daily average, use little.

 

[Piepalook]

You admit to being too lazy to read the entire article, which is the point of the whole thread, and that is just a little annoying. If you have enough energy to respond then please at least have enough to read everything.... it makes responses pretty pointless if you haven't. But I will not be so rude as to ignore what you posted....



Yes, he does. But if you weren't so lazy you would see that in the previous passage he stated that "if South Africa was able to operate at just the average level of efficiency of the 13 countries surveyed, the country would save 50% of its electricity consumption and still produce the current economic output". He then, in the line you have chosen to quote, gives the benefit of the doubt to the sceptics and states that even after factoring in the smelters and the mines we are undoubtedly a very inefficient user of electricity. Do you not think any of those countries who are more efficient than use have smelters and mine? Only Slovak and Russia are worse than us!



"The International Energy Agency provides electricity-consumption-per-person data " .... not sure why this independant agency with no ties to Eskom would decide to skew these figures in South Africa's case. They were not hired by Eskom to provide this data! Do other countries not use the same methods to distribute their electricity?



Well good on you... but I bet if you looked around your house you will find many instances of unneccessary wastage. The problem is we have become so used to cheap power in this country that people use it willy nilly without being concerned about the costs. Limit something or make it expensive and see how quickly people keep an eye on their usage (anyone know their Gb's used this month?)

I think you are being skeptical and arguementative for the sake of it and you almost admitted to this when you said you did not bother reading the entire article...

If you can come up with some data that shows that we are extremely efficient electricity users in this country then I will be willing to reconsider my view....

Efficient or not efficient.That is not the issue.
The issue is:Escom cannot generate enough electricity to supply the demand.
If the economy grows the way you guys are saying (3.8%) we won't have enough electricity next year.
We still have 4 years to go.
In four years we still would not have built enough powerstations to supply demand.

I am afraid the power problems are going to be with us for longer.

Welcome to the real world.

 

[LancelotSA]

Efficient or not efficient.That is not the issue.
The issue is:Escom cannot generate enough electricity to supply the demand.
If the economy grows the way you guys are saying (3.8%) we won't have enough electricity next year.
We still have 4 years to go.
In four years we still would not have built enough powerstations to supply demand.

I am afraid the power problems are going to be with us for longer.

Welcome to the real world.

It is part of the issue.... if we can become more efficient users of the power which we have at our disposal it will go a long way towards providing a solution for the problems you go on to mention.

Yes, we'll still need power stations due to our economic growth and population expansion, and huge money has been thrown at infrastructure for this, but why not improve efficiency?

 

[Ricard]

Do you mind explaining then how Eskom happens to save electricity in a month then by using load shedding? How does this save them any power if household consumers consume so little?

Eskom dont save anything on loadshedding... they just move the peaks around to when they have capacity...

 

[LancelotSA]

Eskom dont save anything on loadshedding... they just move the peaks around to when they have capacity...

Apologies, you are correct. But then merely change the context of my question. Why bother load shedding in residential areas if the power which these households use is of so little consequence?

 

[Piepalook]

It is part of the issue.... if we can become more efficient users of the power which we have at our disposal it will go a long way towards providing a solution for the problems you go on to mention.

Yes, we'll still need power stations due to our economic growth and population expansion, and huge money has been thrown at infrastructure for this, but why not improve efficiency?

Efficiancy is a relative term.
An electric motor always runs at 100% efficiancy.

I agree to change the lights to energy savers, would save a lot.
Changing to a 12 volt LED lighting system is more effective though.

Most people already save electricity.
The problem is the big users.