How far will you make it without a degree

[RetroRabbit]

So I am currently employed as a intermediate software developer, earning a decent salary with nice benefits. I have currently been working as a software developer for 3 years, prior to that I was a sysadmin and before that a helpdesk kiddo.

I don't have a degree, I worked my way up with certifications and showing people what I am able to do using portfolios and the likes when it came to programming. I've always had a knack for doing the technical interviews and questions that were given to me so that was/isn't an issue.

Now that you have my background, my question to you is, how far will I make it without getting a degree? Will I struggle to make it into a senior position (I have no aspiration to go into management so that isn't an issue for me)? Will my salary stagnate? Would I not be able to immigrate if push comes to shove?

Would appreciate any feedback!

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

It's not impossible, but will take more effort.

The fact is that more doors will open for you if you have one. In the initial screening phase, your CV is less likely to get tossed in the bin by HR departments. It's usually only after this initial screening that CVs are handed to the hiring managers...

 

[ArtyLoop]

I made it, all the way... without a degree.
Next question please?

 

[Ancalagon]

I know some developers who progressed pretty far without a degree - I don't think it necessarily will get in the way.

With one exception.

If you ever want to emigrate, it is much more difficult to do so without a degree. It adds a lot of points to your emigration score, and in some cases, you won't even be considered without one.

 

[Compton_effect]

I know some developers who progressed pretty far without a degree - I don't think it necessarily will get in the way.

With one exception.

If you ever want to emigrate, it is much more difficult to do so without a degree. It adds a lot of points to your emigration score, and in some cases, you won't even be considered without one.

That's the only issue I've ever had.

 

[butters89]

I can't really relate, as I work in the finance industry, but for about the first four years of my professional career, I had no degree as I was studying through UNISA part time.

I feel that it was certainly harder for me to get just an interview.

When I got my second job, I pushed harder and showed much more initiative compared to colleagues that were not only more qualified than me, but also more experienced. This led to me being promoted quite a few times before them.

It's a challenge to be given the chance to showcase your skills, but once it happens, grab it with both hands. No degree can replace hard work, determination, sheer will-power, and a willingness to learn.

Hopefully your employer recognises those skills, as I would work with someone like that any day.

 

[PsYTraNc3]

Most of the most senior people I know have no degree.

I never even had a certificate until recently

 

[CT_Biker]

I realized that the DOM and Trees are suspiciously similar, I was piss drunk when I noticed this too.

 

[Pho3nix]

I know some developers who progressed pretty far without a degree - I don't think it necessarily will get in the way.

With one exception.

If you ever want to emigrate, it is much more difficult to do so without a degree. It adds a lot of points to your emigration score, and in some cases, you won't even be considered without one.

The reason I’m finishing mine. Gotten far without one

 

[[)roi(]]

There is no reason why your job should stagnate without a degree; for example: there are many senior level people employed by Google, Apple, ... who do not have a degree.

You should consider a degree more as a personal milestone than anything else; that said it's a good way to acquire a broad range of knowledge and exercise your noggin at the same time; but it's not a definitive guarantee of a person's intellectual acuity, work ethic, etc... or the only way in which you can acquire this knowledge.

 

[Lupus]

Only reason I'd do one is to move, though otherwise haven't done to badly without one. But than again at a certain age a degree from 20 years ago isn't going to be much benefit.

 

[GoB]

Certifications become useless fast, but if you can get at least a degree, you'll have more options and also won't have to defend not having a certain qualification very often.

I got mine 'just to have the paper' and didn't think much of it at the time.

It has opened one job opportunity (where having a degree is not negotiable), and possibly another. It also made applying for an Oz visa possible... barely - I had the needed 8 years post-degree work experience.

I would recommend getting the degree as soon as possible - but you should be willing to do so over 5-6 years if you have other commitments.

 

[cguy]

A degree will allow you an easier path to doing do more advanced, typically more interesting, and more lucrative work. From a "paper" perspective, it will allow you easier entrance to many jobs, and will make it easier to emigrate, as has already been mentioned. It also teaches you the fundamentals for the type of advanced work mentioned above. The actually "learning" here is something you could do by yourself, but is essentially pretty hard to do by yourself - a degree is structured to provide efficient learning of this material.

Career wise, you aren't specifically limited without a degree, however, all things being equal, your expected (in the statistical sense) level of success will be lower without one. Note that in IT, this can still be pretty good. People shouting "you too can be a statistical outlier", are underplaying the low statistical likelihood of this actually happening, and quite frankly, also have a rather modest idea of what an outlier here actually is. The biggest misunderstandings of this debate typically arise from people conflating possibility and probability.

For me personally, my degree opened up plenty of opportunities in SA, and eventually overseas. I am pretty sure I would have been reasonably successful without one (at the end of matric, I had already been coding for 10 years), but I wouldn't have been close to where I am today.

There is no reason why your job should stagnate without a degree; for example: there are many senior level people employed by Google, Apple, ... who do not have a degree.

You should consider a degree more as a personal milestone than anything else; that said it's a good way to acquire a broad range of knowledge and exercise your noggin at the same time; but it's not a definitive guarantee of a person's intellectual acuity, work ethic, etc... or the only way in which you can acquire this knowledge.

There are indeed many senior employees at Google and Apple without degrees, which means "you don't need a degree", but it also screams "you should really really have one if you want to work on our core software/hardware". Throwing out Apple retail from consideration, the vast majority of Apple, and the vast majority of Google software engineers have degrees - many advanced degrees.

Most of the most senior people I know have no degree.

I never even had a certificate until recently

This is just selection bias: The people you know and work with tend not to have degrees because you don't. This is a natural follow on from working at a company which does the kind of work where degrees aren't required/advantageous.

I made it, all the way... without a degree.
Next question please?

No offense, but your definition of all the way isn't particularly ambitious. Also, with all the BS you've written about experiencing in your work life, I am really surprised you would recommend this path to anyone.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

A degree will allow you an easier path to doing do more advanced, typically more interesting, and more lucrative work. From a "paper" perspective, it will allow you easier entrance to many jobs, and will make it easier to emigrate, as has already been mentioned. It also teaches you the fundamentals for the type of advanced work mentioned above. The actually "learning" here is something you could do by yourself, but is essentially pretty hard to do by yourself - a degree is structured to provide efficient learning of this material.

Yep, when you see "senior devs" struggle with basic concepts like boolean algebra, you realise that it's more than just a piece of paper.

A degree shapes your way of thinking in ways that on-the-job experience simply can't. I've seen people toss efficiency aside in the name of meeting a deadline, with no consideration for the consequences that may arise further downstream.

I'm sure there'll be some comments about an oke with a degree who f'ed things up, and needed to be fixed by an oke with a cert...

 

[[)roi(]]

There are indeed many senior employees at Google and Apple without degrees, which means "you don't need a degree", but it also screams "you should really really have one if you want to work on our core software/hardware". Throwing out Apple retail from consideration, the vast majority of Apple, and the vast majority of Google software engineers have degrees - many advanced degrees.

Don't be disingenuous, the employees I referred to were of course in software engineering; in addition some of the biggest morons I've worked with had degrees, and vice versa. Hence I've questioned the quality of degrees from some institutions before.

 

[cguy]

Don't be disingenuous, the employees I referred to were of course in software engineering

I didn’t say they weren’t.

 

[TechGirl04]

You might struggle to get interviews if HR screens your CV based on degree. You will struggle to immigrate. For most countries, you get points for your degree/s which add positively to your immigration application. Rather do at least a bachelors via correspondence. You might regret not having the piece of paper one day.

 

[_kabal_]

How about making a sticky so that this question doesn’t get asked every week and get answered with the same responses.

we get it. us folk without degrees aren’t “real senior developers (tm)”

 

[r4nd0m]

To add to what the others have said (and they make good points):

I find that you can get really, really far when you care.

- Care about knowing all aspects of your field (read and educate yourself)
- Care about your job and employer (the work must mean something to you)
- Care about getting **** done (have drive and initiative)

Not trying to be mean, but being deadly serious. Look around at your colleagues and see how many truly give a damn about the work, the profession or even have ambition. How many are in it just for the pay cheque?

If you make your mission out to be the best in the room (in your field) and have the right reasons for doing so (passion and drive) and want to make significant impacts (change lives), then you'll get very far.

In hindsight, know your worth. Never be taken for a ride by your employer and always endeavour to be the most knowledgeable person in the room (even if it's a work-in-progress).

 

[PsYTraNc3]

This is just selection bias: The people you know and work with tend not to have degrees because you don't. This is a natural follow on from working at a company which does the kind of work where degrees aren't required/advantageous.

Actually, it isn't.

I've been interviewed by companies (Including the current and past one I worked for) where degrees are absolutely required and still I ended up being shortlisted after taking a chance and submitting my CV anyway.
The current is a NASDAQ listed company and the previous place I was at was also listed.

A degree is absolutely something that everyone should pursue and will definitely be advantageous.
However, those of us without it is still able to reach the same level of success with lots of hard work.