ICASA ADSL Draft Regulations

What is your overall opinion of the Draft Regulations?

  • Very good

    Votes: 74 24.3%
  • Good

    Votes: 152 49.8%
  • Average

    Votes: 46 15.1%
  • Bad

    Votes: 21 6.9%
  • Very bad

    Votes: 12 3.9%

  • Total voters
    305
pupa said:
I have not read the draft, but is there any news on unbundling, competition stimulation?? I do not see anything new other than to restore what we had before 1 November.
It is sad on dial up, but at least no capping and other cr@p

Still waiting for the 2nd Colloquium report to be post on the DoC website. Gov promised some steps in this regard and everybody is waiting with baited breath...

Sad truth however is that a truly commited minister with a little bit of spunk and knowledge would never need this much talk and talk and talk and talk before taking action... We are stuck with probably the worst communications ministry on the face of this planet. Lets hope they do the right thing in the end and surprise us with COMPLETE deregulation of the telecoms market...

Wouldn't that be nice if they did this and made these draft regulations redundant? :)

Then we would see a normal market driven drop in prices, increase in service levels and service options...

Damn that would be NICE!!! NIIIICCCEEE!!! :D
 
Yes, of course it's nice to get more bits, better service, and pricing more in line with international standards.
If that'll actually happen, that is.
So I'll hold off any enthusiasm. Talk (and this is only draft talk) is like free bandwidth, and that aint the real world.

But it's also a sad day.

From a polity perspective, this is a retrograde step.
What we are also seeing is further state intervention in the economy.
A small step towards fascism.
A little slip towards socialism.
At issue is human liberty.

The real root of the 'Telkom problem' is government interference in market mechanisms. For years SA was a Post Office State - remember, the national telco was part of the poskantoor, which is state controlled. In other words, the state owned telecommunications equity and controlled all players through regulation. We forget that the final enforcer of pricing and ownership was the police. Yes, if you competed with the government monopoly they'd send the police to stop you. The Post Office State ultimately relied on the Police State to enforce prices and restrict competition. Pricing was determined by bureaucrats instead of the free market. Yes, they split off and 'corporatised' the telco and called it Telkom. And then they 'privatised' it (ie they moved share ownership from the state to state-lackeys, with a little sop to the market). But privatisation only pretends to be free enterprise because state manipulation of ownership and prices remains, even if the players are privately owned. And we still sit with the legacy of a highly distorted ownership of the telecommunications infrastructure (ie Telkom owns the pipes and wires), so everyone's still snookered.

What we really need is privatisation and deregulation, especially of the key international pipes that are still state owned.

As a lover of freedom, I am dismayed to see such naked intervention in what should be a free market. I am extremely suspicious of the state (and am resisting the temptation to remind everyone that states are the largest oppressors and destroyers of human liberty).

Need I remind you that the reason we are paying such outrageous prices for bandwidth is precisely because Caesar (ie the State) has for years interfered in the economy. The current distortions in pricing and infrastructure ownership are caused by Caesar's meddling. The solution is not more State interference, even if it's the kind that seems to get us a slightly bigger cap and a few more bits down the pipe.

So it's with very mixed feelings that I see these draft ICASA regulations.
Today Caesar seems to be a nice guy, because in his beneficence he grants us more bread and circuses.

But beware, citizens. It is really a grab for power.

And Caesar is already far too powerful.

Like the overtaxed peasants, my real cry is laissez faire!.
Leave us alone!
 
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C'mon

Keepin my fingers X for this one 2 come through, take it 2 'em, it's an international standard after all, now isn't it. ;)

Pity this couldn't be more public so the blind forkers could also understand they're being blindfolded 'n mounted :mad:
 
I suggested earlier that "always on internet" could be a nice place to start complete deregulation of the telecoms industry.

A ruling that "data across public roads" to be legal would be a good start.

It will save many businesses with offices on both sides of the road a lot of money, and it will make it easier to share an ADSL line...
 
Privatisation and de-regulation ONLY work when there is real competition. Where companies are forced to provide the best service at the lowest cost in order to compete. So generally that's the best way to run things but specifically with Telkom it has proved to be a disaster. No competetion meant nothing to keep pricing in check or the driving of developing more effecient systems.

It's gotten to the point where real competetion (which won't happen for years) will destroy Telkom as they are not and cannot be competetive anymore. I feel sorry for long term stockholders, there company is destroying itself.

As for the draft, anything that tries to force pricing and service to be closer to the real-world (ie. non RSA) is great. Unfortunately my cynacism says this will have about as much effect as all the previous regulations, which have resulted in increased prices and worse service.
 
My biggest concern is the pricing. Telkom may agree to the minimum 10GB in the end but then resell it too the ISP's @ R2000 . The ISP's in turn will need to provide their services, add a markup and sell to the clients .... so an atronomical increase in costs....

So i guess we'll have to work on our response to ICASA and try and plug up those gaping holes.
 
mccrack said:
My biggest concern is the pricing. Telkom may agree to the minimum 10GB in the end but then resell it too the ISP's @ R2000 . The ISP's in turn will need to provide their services, add a markup and sell to the clients .... so an atronomical increase in costs....

So i guess we'll have to work on our response to ICASA and try and plug up those gaping holes.
But according to the draft disputed wholesale rates will be resolved by ICASA. I doubt they'll be able to just say it costs X without proving why so telkom will have to provide all sorts of information in order to try to justify their rates.
 
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Thanks bwana.

Hmmmm,

So ICASA would have too look at SAIX's books to determine what all the ISP's are paying before negotiating a wholesale price ? This could well be interesting to see what TelkomInternet "purchases" their accounts for.
 
Arthur said:
Yes, of course it's nice to get more bits, better service, and pricing more in line with international standards.
If that'll actually happen, that is.
So I'll hold off any enthusiasm. Talk (and this is only draft talk) is like free bandwidth, and that aint the real world.

But it's also a sad day.

From a polity perspective, this is a retrograde step.
What we are also seeing is further state intervention in the economy.
A small step towards fascism.
A little slip towards socialism.
At issue is human liberty.

The real root of the 'Telkom problem' is government interference in market mechanisms. For years SA was a Post Office State - remember, the national telco was part of the poskantoor, which is state controlled. In other words, the state owned telecommunications equity and controlled all players through regulation. We forget that the final enforcer of pricing and ownership was the police. Yes, if you competed with the government monopoly they'd send the police to stop you. The Post Office State ultimately relied on the Police State to enforce prices and restrict competition. Pricing was determined by bureaucrats instead of the free market. Yes, they split off and 'corporatised' the telco and called it Telkom. And then they 'privatised' it (ie they moved share ownership from the state to state-lackeys, with a little sop to the market). But privatisation only pretends to be free enterprise because state manipulation of ownership and prices remains, even if the players are privately owned. And we still sit with the legacy of a highly distorted ownership of the telecommunications infrastructure (ie Telkom owns the pipes and wires), so everyone's still snookered.

What we really need is privatisation and deregulation, especially of the key international pipes that are still state owned.

As a lover of freedom, I am dismayed to see such naked intervention in what should be a free market. I am extremely suspicious of the state (and am resisting the temptation to remind everyone that states are the largest oppressors and destroyers of human liberty).

Need I remind you that the reason we are paying such outrageous prices for bandwidth is precisely because Caesar (ie the State) has for years interfered in the economy. The current distortions in pricing and infrastructure ownership are caused by Caesar's meddling. The solution is not more State interference, even if it's the kind that seems to get us a slightly bigger cap and a few more bits down the pipe.

So it's with very mixed feelings that I see these draft ICASA regulations.
Today Caesar seems to be a nice guy, because in his beneficence he grants us more bread and circuses.

But beware, citizens. It is really a grab for power.

And Caesar is already far too powerful.

Like the overtaxed peasants, my real cry is laissez faire!.
Leave us alone!

I love it. :D

"A constitution that is made for all nations is made for none."

"Every country has the government it deserves."

Joseph de Maistre
 
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I think the regulations are a great step forward ... here's hoping they get implemented soon. :)
 
All this arguing about wether Telkom's infrustructure can or can't support or needs. I thing that the big picture is that if they cann't support us, find us someone who can.

BTW: if the undersea cable costs so much, someone got ripped off. How can Australia accomplish it?
 
The Draft is out ... now I wanna see what LooLoo has to say... what Telkom will spin about it - or just ignore the whole issues (as she is good at that)
 
Is the 14 day installation thing [Point 3.7 in the doc] even vaguely realistic/enforcable? Without a dramatic increase in their support staff I would think not [and increasing their support staff numbers would cut into those juicy profits....]
 
After having read the draft, I have to say that it's positive. Should all the regulations be used, ADSL in our country will likely move forward a decent amount. I like the provision that wholesale bandwidth prices shall be agreed upon between the provider and the buyers. And that ICASA will step in if no agreement can be found.

So unless I have missed something (quite possible on a friday), this means that if the ISPs get together and decide on a price (say 15/G) Telkom will be forced to listen to them and make them happy or ICASA will step in to mediate.
 
Moederloos said:
24 hour reset no more! Now, lets see what those ISPs who reset on the hour do.

(

Well those ISP's are just going on what telkom dishes out, once telkom changes everyone else will also be able to change.

Derth
 
Why does Telkom not implement the new pricing etc now?

Telkom are going to be forced by the ICASA bill to change things, such as the 10gbyte option, and if you take it that the regulations state that it can be introduced retrospectively for people that took it contracts.

Now to me it makes a lot of sense to announce all new pricing now, instread of waiting another three months. People have bonuses to spend this Xmas period and if Telkom had a really good offering, they could grow the ADSL market quite substantially during this period. Instead they are spending time defending a situation that could proof to be null and void in the near future.

So Telkom rather take the gap now!
 
@ernst: You're speaking as if Telkom would take advantage of this huge market opportunity. If I were Telkom, I'd realise that the tide of the country is turning against them. The SNO is coming and they can't stop it and eventually at least SOME of ICASA's bill will come through.

If they took this opportunity to make some examples of "policy makers" and create some really great ADSL packages, they'd become heroes overnight or at the very least be seen as making amends.

*sigh*
 
Hi everyone. As you all can see, I'm new.

Anyway. I am really happy to see something like this is being done. Though I feel that Telkom are going to fight about this, but change will come. Does anyone know when we will start to see the change, or is there no deadline?
 
Welcome headsore :)

There is no enforced/enforcable deadline for this process although there really should be. The process can be found on ICASA's web site. I'd imagine several months still to go.
 
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