ICASA ADSL Draft Regulations

[rpm]

Hi Karnaugh

Your argument is based on the assumption that competition will be introduced. In the absence of competition (like with a legally protected monopoly) strong regulation is the only way to ensure that consumers are protected.

Do you suggest that we just sit back and hope for the best?

 

[nGAGEd55]

Telkom loses profit, subsequently the state income is incredibly hurt and there is no increase in income or economy from elsewhere (still no competition.................).
How is that good for economy?

Its good for the economy because the ppl of south Africa dont have to spend an arm and a leg just to pay their telkom bills.

I see no reason why they sould make such massive profits in the first place

 

[kaspaas]

I
However, we should not expect ICASA to set wholesale rates at below Telkom's actual cost price. It would be really helpful to know what that cost price really is.

You will never know what the real cost is...

I was taught the accounting describes human behaviour. It describes the results of human decisions. Humans behave like pack animals: Get approval of the leader.

Telkom's accounts will do just that. ADSL must be expensive, so do the accounting that ADSL is expensive.

 

[Franna]

re the IP change - this does not make technical sense. Fixed IPs are assigned (indirectly) by ICANN, dynamic ones come from a pool that is managed by a DHCP server. As I read the document - you will have a DHCP assigned IP but with no forced reset, but you have no guarantee that the IP will not change. The seven day story is rather stupid. We could, of course, argue my interpretation ‘till the cows come home as to what is/was actually meant – this, in my opinion applies to the whole document.
BillT

BillT - You have it all wrong.

ICANN only issues routable public IP addresses, does not matter if it is used as a static or dynamic address.

Dynamic ones that is managed by a DHCP server gets assigned from a pool that must be obtained from ICANN anyways. In other words - ICANN issues a block of 1,000,000 public IP addresses to Telkom, which in turn can then decide to issue them as static or dynamic to their clients.

The reason they implement a 24 hour reset is to protect their profits so that you can not host any server (web, mail, vpn, etc) on the connection. They want you to opt for the exorbitant priced dedicated leased line circuit.

 

[kaspaas]

Another issue:

Telkom must be prevented to sell bulk "diginet" type products to its "competitors" (Sentech, iBurst etc) at such rates that they can't compete with ADSL.

Unless: All "broadband" providers may self provide...

 

[jamieb]

excellent news!

Hi Everyone

This is truly brilliant news!!! Well done to everyone for pushing so hard to make this happen.

A few points:
(a) The minimum on the upstream rate is obviously a typo. We need to make sure this gets corrected.
(b) I am seriously worried that the initial installation charge will turn out to be astronomical. Knowing Telkom, they will set it as some stupid rate like R1500.
(c) There is no specific mention of how prices will be controlled. The current broadband costs are astronomical, even without the line rental charge. Telkom is likely to increase the cost of bandwidth in the country when these regulations take effect. The draft regulations really need to link the cost of bandwidth to international prices.
(d) We need to think like Telkom and see if there are ways they could get around the legislation i.e. by offering an inferior service or by hiking prices.

Otherwise, great stuff!

 

[bwana]

Lets think, are offshore investors going to be happy about these regulations? No. Are they going to be interested in Telkom or any other telecommunications company that has these regulations forced on them? Unlikely because they drastically damage the profitability of these companies. How exactly is that good for our economy? Telkom loses profit, subsequently the state income is incredibly hurt and there is no increase in income or economy from elsewhere (still no competition.................).
How is that good for economy?

Is this happening in an alternate reality? Telkom is an entrenched monopoly and needs regulation despite the effect it might have on share prices.

 

[The_Unbeliever]

We will have to submit very solid feedback... We must ensure that all the possible problems are solved before the final version sees the light.

Will this be done with a baseball bat? Such as in 'Mr Baseball bat, meet Mr Knee and Mr Finger'?

 

[BTTB]

Karnaugh, from what you have posted there, you seem to be saying that foreign investors will only ever be interested in investing in telecoms companies and no other South African company outside of telecoms will ever hold any interest for foreign investors.

Right now, considering the enormous cost of communications under Telkodemonopoly, companies outside of telecoms do not hold much interest for foreign investors, but reduce the cost of communications in South Africa - especially in terms of reducing broadband pricing and thereby increasing the uptake of broadband [i.e. increase the penetration rate], and South African companies will grow enormously, which will grow the economy, which will create jobs, which will benefit everyone - even Telkodemonopoly and SNOTata will benefit from increased broadband penetration, and they will still make a profit and regain their investment in the telecoms market.

As for your personal attack on rpm with the suggestion that rpm is not educated, well all I can say is that your attack is not warranted, it is unfounded, and I think you have given forumites reason to question your own education and/or intelligence.

I was a bit taken aback when I read that statement by Karnaugh.
The word "tact" leaps to mind.

 

[rsd]

As for your personal attack on rpm with the suggestion that rpm is not educated, well all I can say is that your attack is not warranted, it is unfounded, and I think you have given forumites reason to question your own education and/or intelligence.

Well put.

 

[bwana]

I was a bit taken aback when I read that statement.
The word "tact" leaps to mind.

Really - even when considering the member in question?

 

[James]

Karnaugh do u ever have anything possitive to say? Are you that insecure that you need to insult and belittle every one in hope to make yourself look better?

 

[BillT]

BillT - You have it all wrong.

ICANN only issues routable public IP addresses, does not matter if it is used as a static or dynamic address.

In the context that I was explaining fixed IPs as per the document (a number of previous post that seem to think that no forced reset = fixed IP) I have it exactly right. Nevertheless your comments reinforce my argument with respect to ambiguity of the premise as opposed to debating the detail (of a well define premise).

BillT

 

[GavinMannion]

Lets just analyse how wrong that statement is

"we should see mass uptake of broadband and the increased penetration "
Yes, we'd see mass uptake of broadband - and subsequent reduction in service levels from SAIX to maintain the DSL cloud and international peering - why should they expand international links and local network capacity when they make no money off it?

It's called economies of scale Karnaugh. Currently SAIX might make R100 p/m per subscriber.... (100 000 subscribers = R10 000 000 p/m)

They are now forced to drop their profits to R20 p/m p/s which in turn causes millions of new subscribers... (1 000 000 subscribers = R20 000 000p/m)

Yeah I can see why they would be upset about it.

As was previously mentioned since we have a monopoly and are getting sick and tired of bending over regulation is the only way to get anywhere.

I do remember BT being forced to unbundle the local loop and lower their wholesale prices... That really stunted the UK economy now didn't it.

Cheers,
Gavin

 

[James]

Is it not a coincedence that the draft which looked rushed, in some peoples words, comes days after the suspension of ICASA CEO?

 

[Jongi]

The reason it looks rushed is because they have been concentrating on the SNO legislation would be my guess.

 

[BTTB]

Really - even when considering the member in question?

I agree that I was not being tactful, merely responding to an obvious attack against rpm - based no less on draft regulations that ICASA released - rpm did not write the draft regulations - ICASA did write the draft ADSL regs, and that is where criticism should be levelled - at ICASA - not at rpm.

Anyways, let's let that water pass under the bridge - it is detracting from the purpose and subject of this thread, which is ICASA's draft ADSL regulations...

I apologise if my statement looked like it was aimed at IC.
It was actually directed at Karnaugh.
I have rephrased my post #138.

And I agree with IC that we should let the water pass under the bridge.

 

[Fudzy]

Does anybody know how long these conditions will take to be put in place?

 

[moosag]

All good and well. A whole hearted thank you to rpm and crew and everyone else out there who contributed to increasing pressure which has led to this.

Looks good, sounds good... whether it will happen in the near future or not is another story. But alteast the ball is rolling.

Thanks MyADSL!

 

[antowan]

I agree that we're being ripped off. It might cost 25% or even 50% more to provide international bandwidth in South Africa than it does in the U.K. but not 10 times as much.

However, we should not expect ICASA to set wholesale rates at below Telkom's actual cost price. It would be really helpful to know what that cost price really is. Maybe such a document could just fall out of the sky and land on one of our desks? (hint)

Fair.

You must however agree that if we had open competition to Telkom this whole debate would be irrelevant because competition would alwasy try to undercut eachother through cheaper and better services.