Other Pineapple Smurf
Honorary Master
Nice idea. Always demand for rooms to rent in our area.
-
Join the MyBroadband community
South Africa’s biggest forum. Discuss, discover, and connect with thousands of members.
-
Question of the Day: Did you buy your last car with cash or on a finance plan?
Immigrating to the UK
- Thread starter AchmatK
- Start date
Nice idea. Always demand for rooms to rent in our area.
AchmatK
Honorary Master
Wife is back and we are reviewing our options.
Ireland was mentioned earlier in the thread and I had a look at it and it's not a bad choice and might become our first choice. As a British citizen, my wife can work there, SA passport holders do not need a visa to visit Ireland and I should be able to get a family permit. Its also a cheaper option considering the cost of family visa fees for the UK and the health surcharge that has doubled effective early January 2019. With a family permit from Ireland I would be able to travel anywhere in the EU. With a UK family visa I will be restricted to the visa requirements of my South African passport.
We will be looking at opportunities in Dublin and London for now.
Ireland was mentioned earlier in the thread and I had a look at it and it's not a bad choice and might become our first choice. As a British citizen, my wife can work there, SA passport holders do not need a visa to visit Ireland and I should be able to get a family permit. Its also a cheaper option considering the cost of family visa fees for the UK and the health surcharge that has doubled effective early January 2019. With a family permit from Ireland I would be able to travel anywhere in the EU. With a UK family visa I will be restricted to the visa requirements of my South African passport.
We will be looking at opportunities in Dublin and London for now.
If you emigrate to Ireland as a South African with a British spouse before 29 March 2019 you will be doing so under EU immigration regulations if the Brexit deal fails or is not accepted by parliament.
This means you must apply for a Residency Card before the above date. This will be an "Article 10" residence card that you can use to travel to any EU member country with your spouse without a visa as freedom of movement will be available to you as a spouse of an EU citizen.
After 5 years you can apply for an Article 20 Residence Card that is permanent residency. This card can be used in lieu of a visa as well. You can also apply for citizenship then.
However, should you relocate to London then you will have problems. The EU regulations will not apply to you as your spouse is a citizen of the UK. The UK domestic laws would. This is much stricter than EU regulations.
So be prepared for minimum wage requirements for your UK spouse. I think it is £18 600 pa.
This means you must apply for a Residency Card before the above date. This will be an "Article 10" residence card that you can use to travel to any EU member country with your spouse without a visa as freedom of movement will be available to you as a spouse of an EU citizen.
After 5 years you can apply for an Article 20 Residence Card that is permanent residency. This card can be used in lieu of a visa as well. You can also apply for citizenship then.
However, should you relocate to London then you will have problems. The EU regulations will not apply to you as your spouse is a citizen of the UK. The UK domestic laws would. This is much stricter than EU regulations.
So be prepared for minimum wage requirements for your UK spouse. I think it is £18 600 pa.
Gtx Gaming
Gtx Gaming
Indeed just do it before 29 march to be safe.
Ireland lacks behind london by far, but you can still move to london after 5 years once you get irish citizenship.
Also, I believe that one can show a > 65k of savings in lieu of the income requirement.
That is correct plus if you don't have that much they will combine both your savings and investments plus the bit the spouse may earn if working on minimum wage. This was not allowed until recently. Also non EU family members of EU residents in the UK no longer need provide proof of funds or have health insurance to apply for residency.
AchmatK
Honorary Master
Hope someone can shed some light on this.
So my wife is classified as a British citizen even though she does not have her British passport. When passing through Heathrow on her recent trip, the passport control officer indicated that she should be in the UK Citizen line due to having the right of abode certificate in her South African passport. They did not stamp her passport and did not ask her any further questions regarding her stay and reasons for coming to the UK. In fact, the officer's demeanour towards her changed when he saw the certificate and said, "oh, you're one of us." with a big grin. He also advised her that she should use the UK Citizen line in future when travelling to the UK.
Uk citizens can travel freely and work in Ireland and do not require a passport when travelling within the CTA. This is in Irish law and not EU law. A photo ID is sufficient. The CTA agreements will remain even after brexit from what I understand.
My question is, would she need her British passport for her to claim EU treaty rights and for me to apply for the family permit? Is the certificate of entitlement sufficient evidence to prove to Irish officials that she is a British citizen?
We will be applying for her British passport in due course which will make the above questions irrelevant. This can however only be done while she is in the UK as we are still waiting for her parents unabridged birth certificates from home affairs. If she applies within the UK then we do not need her parents unabridged birth certificates.
So my wife is classified as a British citizen even though she does not have her British passport. When passing through Heathrow on her recent trip, the passport control officer indicated that she should be in the UK Citizen line due to having the right of abode certificate in her South African passport. They did not stamp her passport and did not ask her any further questions regarding her stay and reasons for coming to the UK. In fact, the officer's demeanour towards her changed when he saw the certificate and said, "oh, you're one of us." with a big grin. He also advised her that she should use the UK Citizen line in future when travelling to the UK.
Uk citizens can travel freely and work in Ireland and do not require a passport when travelling within the CTA. This is in Irish law and not EU law. A photo ID is sufficient. The CTA agreements will remain even after brexit from what I understand.
My question is, would she need her British passport for her to claim EU treaty rights and for me to apply for the family permit? Is the certificate of entitlement sufficient evidence to prove to Irish officials that she is a British citizen?
We will be applying for her British passport in due course which will make the above questions irrelevant. This can however only be done while she is in the UK as we are still waiting for her parents unabridged birth certificates from home affairs. If she applies within the UK then we do not need her parents unabridged birth certificates.
CTA will still be valid. It’s not part UK’s EU membership
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...and-irish-citizens-if-there-is-no-brexit-deal
However, “travelling” and “working” may not be the same thing. Note, I haven’t read the linked guidance in full
AchmatK
Honorary Master
I have read that and no changes to the CTA is expected post 29 March. Uk citizens have full access to Ireland including working, public benefits and voting in Ireland.
Only thing not clear is whether the certificate of entitlement is sufficient to prove uk citizenship or if she needs a British passport. The CTA also needs to be updated regarding a British citizen and their non British partner after 29 March. Currently the non British partner falls under EU laws.
British citizens don’t need a passport to travel to Ireland. However if you enter Ireland through an airport or sea port, Irish immigration will ask you for ID, and then you have to prove that you are a British citizen, which can get complicated if you don’t have documents which prove citizenship and all documents show you are based in SA. If you have British citizenship, get the passport. Save you a world of pain. Brits I work with take their passports to Dublin. It’s not worth the hassle.
You will need find out from the Irish govt what can be used to prove British citizenship other than a passport.
AchmatK
Honorary Master
Not for me. Its for my wife who was born in the UK prior to 1982. She only has her UK birth certificate and needs her parents unabridged birth certificates in order to apply for her British passport outside of the UK. She can apply while in the UK and would then only need her uk birth certificate but needs to be in the UK and need at least 6 weeks there.
I called the Irish citizenship line and they are closed till after boxing day. I will call on Thursday to check if the certificate of entitlement with a copy of her UK birth certificate will be sufficient.
If under a "no deal" Brexit and you guys want to go to Ireland then you have to do so before 30 March 2019 to use EU immigration regulations. This is what UK Home Office states. The EU has not yet come to a conclusion on this.
If you go to the UK then UK's domestic laws will apply and it has nothing to do with Brexit but it is more difficult and expensive for you.
Your wife will need a UK biometric ID so she would have to get a passport.
If you go to the UK then UK's domestic laws will apply and it has nothing to do with Brexit but it is more difficult and expensive for you.
Your wife will need a UK biometric ID so she would have to get a passport.
Messugga
Honorary Master
Ireland or Northern Ireland?
AchmatK
Honorary Master
Republic of Ireland.
Even after Brexit, UK citizens will still be able to enter and work in Ireland as the CTA was established within Irish and UK law and not eu law. Both the UK and Ireland has already indicated that the CTA will remain in effect after Brexit.
The only uncertainty within the CTA post Brexit is how the non British partner of a British citizen will be treated under the CTA agreement as currently they are catered for within the eu free movement sections.
You as a non EU member will have to get residency in Ireland for 5 years and then apply for Irish citizenship. Only then will the CTA agreement allow you to move between the two countries.
My reasoning is this. Many Brits have found it impossible to relocate to the UK with non EU spouses so their best choice was to either live in an EU country for at least 3 months and then enter the UK under EU regulations. Ireland being an English speaking country was the country of choice. This method is called the "Surinder Singh route" as she was the first person to win this case against HO.https://www.freemovement.org.uk/surinder-singh-immigration-route/
This said, it is quite obvious that the CTA will not accommodate you and as your time may be limited to use this route it leaves you with no choice but to get Irish citizenship.
I have researched every avenue to get my SA wife into the UK for a long time so I am well equipped to speak on it.
My reasoning is this. Many Brits have found it impossible to relocate to the UK with non EU spouses so their best choice was to either live in an EU country for at least 3 months and then enter the UK under EU regulations. Ireland being an English speaking country was the country of choice. This method is called the "Surinder Singh route" as she was the first person to win this case against HO.https://www.freemovement.org.uk/surinder-singh-immigration-route/
This said, it is quite obvious that the CTA will not accommodate you and as your time may be limited to use this route it leaves you with no choice but to get Irish citizenship.
I have researched every avenue to get my SA wife into the UK for a long time so I am well equipped to speak on it.
AchmatK
Honorary Master
We do not mind living in either Ireland or the UK.
If we miss the 29 march deadline, living in Dublin for 5 years is not really an issue, depending on what work we can get.
If we miss the 29 march deadline, living in Dublin for 5 years is not really an issue, depending on what work we can get.
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
How the hell would that be worth only 2m in SW?
And why on earth would you want to move away from it?
AchmatK
Honorary Master
Location, location, location.
It's on the border of Somerset West close to van der stel train station and Vergelegen Mediclinic. Ideally we will not sell it and return to SA eventually and retire in this house. I am sure we could potentially get a bit more if we wanted. If we do decide to sell we will want to sell as quickly as possible. I will be getting an agent to do a property evaluation before putting it on the market.
As to why the move. I think it's time to explore our options and travel a bit. Living and working in the UK will open up other opportunities for us and for our 2 children. We have no idea what the future for SA is but we are also not all doom and gloom about SA. Safety in South Africa is our biggest concern. We do however see ourselves eventually retiring in South Africa when the time comes. This can change in the future and we will reassess our options as time goes by.
My wife has family in the UK, first cousins, a couple of aunts and uncles while I have very distant relatives there, 3rd/4th cousins.
AchmatK
Honorary Master
We would need a minimum of 2 bedrooms and could possibly budget about €1 500 to €1 800pm.
I'm an accountant (not a CA) and my wife works in investment banking administration as a Fund Accounting Manager.
AchmatK
Honorary Master
I have no idea what happened to marco's post that that I just quoted.