Installing a geyser timer

Steamy Tom said:
Turning a geyser on and off is bad for it and chances are you will replace the element or geyser sooner than you need to. If you dial down the temperature and insulate the geyser it will cut itself off and keep warm longer anyway. With this timer if you use hot water at times you didn't expect to your geyser will get colder and use more energy to heat.
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Where do people come up with crap like this?
 
Jaws677 said:
Tom a geyser element is resistive element.

Everyday it is switched on and off by the thermostat in order to keep the temperature constant. Adding a timer will have no effect on the element even if it increases the number of on off cycles although depending on how the timer is set it should actually decrease the number of on off cycles from the thermostat.
Click to expand...

That's fair, but still would it not great greater temperature variances in the geyser and thus use more energy? And at the same time wouldn't these variances put some extra stress on the geyser over time?
 
There are dozens of threads about this very issue on this forum. Most of them claim, that there is NO advantage to using an external timer on a geyser, especially IF the geyser is required to deliver hot water more than once a day every day. There is a very detailed analysis in at least one thread on energy use.

Timers have an advantage in three very specific cases.

(1) The efficiency rating of the geysers is poor. This means the geyser internal insulation is poor leading to lots of heat loss and consequently more energy required to keep the water hot 24/7. Hence why Jaws677 referred to checking on whether the geyser outside covering is hot to the touch. If it is the insulation is poor which means excessive heat loss which means more energy is used to keep the water hot 24/7. A good energy efficient geyser is not hot to the touch. One could, of course, read the label and see what the efficiency rating as work out accurately how much energy is wasted just simply keeping the water hot.

In this case, a timer does have an effect provided the patterns in the household change and hot water is used by all as soon as the water is hot and within the timer setting.

(2) The geyser efficiency rating is good, and the household is trained to only draw hot water at specific times in a day. This means lots of discipline and economical use of hot water.

(3) A household consists of one or 2 members only. In this case, a timer has the most effect. You can with a good quality geyser get away with heating the water once a day only, or, once every 3 to 4 days depending on the size of the geyser.

Each household is different and one has to know how long the geyser takes to reach the set temperature in Summer and Winter, and how much hot water is drawn per day per person. Then you can work out the best balance between hot water availability and usage, and set the geyser time accordingly.

How hot to set the temperature? The hotter the setting, the more energy you use. Simply turning down the temperature is a very effective way to lower energy usage. The law, however, states that a geyser needs to reach 60 degrees C at regular intervals to combat Legionnaires Disease.

We have a 200 litre geyser. There are only two of us in the home. Our hot water usage is low. The geyser is a good quality geyser. The geyser still has a geyser blanket anyway. All copper pipes to and from the geyser are insulated. The geyser is set at 60 degree C. The timer only switches on the geyser for 75 minutes at a time once a day when we have guests, and once every 3 days normally. We use a dishwasher so hot water drawn in the kitchen is minimal. We are never without hot water.
 
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Trust|Nobody said:
Here's a picture:

View attachment 645446
Click to expand...

Must have been an Appy on training that did this job! Really incredibly neat and tidy! Two neutral bars and all!
Don't like the wire gauge used to the appliances. One size too light in my opinion.
The 30A is probably the stoves. The others are all the same gauge for plugs and for the geyser and the last one is lights.
 
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Geoff.D said:
Where do people come up with crap like this?
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He may be right. I had to replace 2 geysers so far after fitting them with timers (thermostats and elements blew). I skipped the timer on this one (exact same make and model as the previous 2) and it's still going strong from the last 4 years till present.
 
Trust|Nobody said:
I've got a Major Tech MTD8 geyser timer.
I know how to wire it onto the DB but I don't know how to fit it onto the DB so that if doesn't fall off.

How do I fit it on there?
Click to expand...

Major Tech timers are really bad in my opinion. The internal battery charger overcharges the battery, shortens its life and it fails within hours of the warranty expiring.
Their advantage is the number of timing sequences available weekly, daily and hourly - but that is all. The second problem is they can't make up their minds about the connections and whether the Live is extended internally or not. Every time you go and get a replacement, the wiring is different. It is simply a pain in the behind to use their products. Next, are those stupid clips to hold the timers in place. The adaptors they provided to handle other rails, especially for older DBs are really rubbish.

Follow the wiring diagram that came WITH the timer. DONT try and follow other diagrams, because those diagrams may not apply to the one you bought.

1. Identify the CB for the geyser.
2. Disconnect the wire at the bottom of the Geyser CB and connect that to the Load point on the timer after you have installed it into the DB.
3. Run a black conductor from the neutral bar (the one in the middle acc to your photo the Neutral point on the Timer at the Top.
4. Connect a wire from the geyser CB to the Top Live terminal at the top of the timer. That is for providing the timer with power for the battery charger.
5. Now you have a choice with these timers. You could run a wire from the DB CB to the Live IN terminal at the bottom of the Timer, or you could bridge the Live IN terminal with the LIve In terminal at the bottom.
6. Ignore the other connection point at the bottom of the timer.
 
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Shaun108 said:
He may be right. I had to replace 2 geysers so far after fitting them with timers (thermostats and elements blew). I skipped the timer on this one (exact same make and model as the previous 2) and it's still going strong from the last 4 years till present.
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Replace geysers because thermostats and elements blew? Really? Old age is the reason (cheap geysers), NOT because you fitted timers.

Coincidence. You don't know how old the previous element and thermostat was. You do now. I always write on the geyser when an element and thermostat is changed. And what the temperature setting is. Many geysers installed are simply turned to the maximum by installers (75 deg C) which shortens the life of the element and the thermostat.
Current: 9 years since last change.
 
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Trust|Nobody said:
There is one more thing.
This timer has 5 connections points.
Here's the installation instructions:
View attachment 645476

I don't need to connect 3 and 5, do I?

It's fine to connect live and neutral to 1 and 2 then the line to the geyser at 4.
Click to expand...

This version of the major tech does NOT have an internal live bridge.

Points 1 and 4 get connected to the bottom of the Geyser CB. The cable from the geyser CB to the time terminal 4 MUST be the same wire gauge as the wiring to the geyser. The wire to terminal 1 can be less because all it will carry is the battery charger current.
Point 5 goes to the LOAD, i.e. the geyser.

Terminal 1 gets connected to the neutral bar in the middle of the DB, where all the other black wires are connected.
Ignore terminal 3 --- not used.
 
Geoff.D said:
Major Tech timers are really bad in my opinion. The internal battery charger overcharges the battery, shortens its life and it fails within hours of the warranty expiring.
Their advantage is the number of timing sequences available weekly, daily and hourly - but that is all. The second problem is they can't make up their minds about the connections and whether the Live is extended internally or not. Every time you go and get a replacement, the wiring is different. It is simply a pain in the behind to use their products. Next, are those stupid clips to hold the timers in place. The adaptors they provided to handle other rails, especially for older DBs are really rubbish.

Follow the wiring diagram that came WITH the timer. DONT try and follow other diagrams, because those diagrams may not apply to the one you bought.

1. Identify the CB for the geyser.
2. Disconnect the wire at the bottom of the Geyser CB and connect that to the Load point on the timer after you have installed it into the DB.
3. Run a black conductor from the neutral bar (the one in the middle acc to your photo the Neutral point on the Timer at the Top.
4. Connect a wire from the geyser CB to the Top Live terminal at the top of the timer. That is for providing the timer with power for the battery charger.
5. Now you have a choice with these timers. You could run a wire from the DB CB to the Live IN terminal at the bottom of the Timer, or you could bridge the Live IN terminal with the LIve In terminal at the bottom.
6. Ignore the other connection point at the bottom of the timer.
Click to expand...
Which timer do you recommend?
 
Geoff.D said:
Replace geysers because thermostats and elements blew? Really? Old age is the reason (cheap geysers), NOT because you fitted timers.

Coincidence. You don't know how old the previous element and thermostat was. You do now. I always write on the geyser when an element and thermostat is changed. And what the temperature setting is. Many geysers installed are simply turned to the maximum by installers (75 deg C) which shortens the life of the element and the thermostat.
Current: 9 years since last change.
Click to expand...

you are assuming he didnt know how old the geysers were nor their quality.
 
Geyser timers are a waste of time.... I've taken mine out of the dB board after 2 of them failed.
 
ekske1 said:
Kind of handy having outside lights on a timer and or movement.
Click to expand...
No arguing that.. My outside lights are all on sonoff switches... But on a geyser timers are more hassle than they're worth from my experience..
 
ToxicBunny said:
No arguing that.. My outside lights are all on sonoff switches... But on a geyser timers are more hassle than they're worth from my experience..
Click to expand...

At my mom's place in CT I went for a contactor to do the switching and the timer drives the contactor. U only CBi products.

The disadvantage of CBi timers are they are only 24-hour. So cant program weekly days type settings.

Reliability of timers is a problem. the Major tech is the worst, hardly ever last more than 2 years.. Cbi are better at about 4 - 5 years.
 
Geoff.D said:
At my mom's place in CT I went for a contactor to do the switching and the timer drives the contactor. U only CBi products.

The disadvantage of CBi timers are they are only 24-hour. So cant program weekly days type settings.

Reliability of timers is a problem. the Major tech is the worst, hardly ever last more than 2 years.. Cbi are better at about 4 - 5 years.
Click to expand...
Thru, but don't confuse op now
 
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