Intel disaster.

PaulMurkin said:
Why would they? They don't care
Click to expand...
Well, lawyers could make them care very much, especially if you suffer financial damage as a business and you can prove they are well aware of these issues.

It's like chain of accountability, distributors & intel, sellers & customers, but sellers peddling this stuff to businesses locally will be fighting for sure as things unfold.

So let's say you market and sell 100 CPUs today to a business, and they suffer serious operational damage, then you're kind of responsible. Now multiply these little nasty exchanges by thousands and you kind of understand why Intel stock value is violently imploding. It's not just a matter of warranties and replacement, but about actual financial damage caused to hundreds of thousands of end-users.

So if Evetech sells a company 50 CPUs, and they end up causing millions in operational damages, then Evetech and x business is going to tango legally very quickly in matters involving money WAY above those 50 CPUs, so you're kind of out of your mind marketing these CPUs right now, the risk of these kind of minefields is very big. There's potential here to wipe out a lot of local IT companies who are going to play stupid and chance it.

Any legal eagles welcome to weigh in but that's how I see it.
 
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DrJohnZoidberg said:
Link?

I don't think the actual fix is out yet. There is an 0x125 firmware update but it's not the fix for the main issue.
Click to expand...

It is the Z790 Series Beta Bios 2503/1503, dropped on their ROG discussion board:

rog-forum.asus.com

Re: RaptorLake Resources

ROG MAXIMUS/STRIX/PROART/AYW Z790 Series Beta Bios 2503/1503 01. Update microcode to 129 for Intel instability issue 02. Improve system performance dont use old cmo file ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO Beta Bios 2503 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VS4uyS6UGwZ56NpTgr7HTuCIKJrXyBxz/view?usp=sharing ROG...
rog-forum.asus.com rog-forum.asus.com

01. Update microcode to 129 for Intel instability issue
02. Improve system performance

dont use old cmo file
Click to expand...

SAFEDISK always drops a post in that thread with BIOS updates.

In my opinion, it is best to wait until it is released on their product pages.

EDIT: Corrected the permalink
 
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Fulcrum29 said:
It is the Z790 Series Beta Bios 2503/1503, dropped on their ROG discussion board:

rog-forum.asus.com

Re: RaptorLake Resources

ROG MAXIMUS/STRIX/PROART/AYW Z790 Series Beta Bios 2503/1503 01. Update microcode to 129 for Intel instability issue 02. Improve system performance dont use old cmo file ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO Beta Bios 2503 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VS4uyS6UGwZ56NpTgr7HTuCIKJrXyBxz/view?usp=sharing ROG...
rog-forum.asus.com rog-forum.asus.com



SAFEDISK always drops a post in that thread with BIOS updates.

In my opinion, it is best to wait until it is released on their product pages.

EDIT: Corrected the permalink
Click to expand...
Was confused for a bit before you updated the link 😅
 
Wonder if Apple ditched them at a good time then it seems. Although I think going ARM-based was on Apple's radar for quite some time...
 
neoprema said:
Wonder if Apple ditched them at a good time then it seems. Although I think going ARM-based was on Apple's radar for quite some time...
Click to expand...
I think that was way before this incident, it was smart those M series cpus are badass (but very $$$$)
 
I'll throw my thoughts on the matter. Maybe this turns out to be a bigger deal down the line, but based on experience this is the media hype-train in full effect. I've watched these hype-trains in the past and seen the effects they have.

The following will include some anecdotes as well as stats based on figures that are 100x larger than the SA market as a whole.

Asus motherboards melting AM5 CPUs
Asus have two motherboard distributors in the country, neither took action, and neither even knew about the issue. Asus ZA was unaware as well and, to date, hasn't had a return due to a motherboard melting a CPU.

Gigabyte PB-series PSUs exploding
There are two distributors for Gigabyte PSUs in the country. One had two returns within the affected serial number range. Of the two, one was just completely dead (POSSIBLY (and I say this with no evidence) due to load shedding, which was a daily occurrence at the time), and the other was returned because the customer wanted a replacement that didn't fall within the SN range. The other distributor is oblivious to the matter as there weren't returns.

NZXT cases catching fire
This had probably the greatest effect on sales of all the hype-train events of late. I watched disti stock levels stay exactly the same for about a week. No issues were reported.

As with all previous events, this MIGHT end up being a big deal. It might end up being the biggest deal since the Pentium FVID bug from 30 years ago. AS IT STANDS, though, this is just media hyping up a situation to get views. Clickbait gets views, drama gets views, and before you know it something is blown completely out of proportion.

Across the board, whether I look at my own returns, speak to distributors with national figures, speak to vendors' local offices to see if international figures are worth talking about, or even look at international retailer numbers that have been released, 13th and 14th Gen have had a lower failure rate than AM5. Everyone is aware of the situation, but nobody is seeing the same figures the media is portraying.

Side note, strangely, and I don't really see the correlation, more RAM is returned from AM5 systems than Intel DDR5 systems .

Some recent stats:

Intel: This covers 10th, and 12th through 14th Gen - yes, some people still buy 10th Gen

Intel CPUs sold: 118
Intel CPUs returned: 0
Intel CPUs replaced: 0
Intel return rate: 0%
Intel replacement rate: 0%
Breakdown of returns:
  • N/A

AMD: This covers Ryzen 4000-, 5000- and 7000-Series - no recent 3000-Series or older sales

AMD CPUs sold: 97
AMD CPUs returned: 5
AMD CPUs replaced: 4
AMD return rate: 5.2%
AMD replacement rate: 4.1%
Breakdown of returns:
  • 1 x Ryzen 5 4500 - faulty
  • 1 x Ryzen 7 5800X3D - no fault found
  • 1 x Ryzen 5 7600X - faulty
  • 1 x Ryzen 7 7700 - faulty
  • 1 x Ryzen 7 7700X - faulty

All failure rates have been below 5%, which is an industry-acceptable level.

Anecdote. I have a friend that deployed five i9-13900 (non-K) CPUs as servers more than a year ago. Budget is the only thing that prevented the company from doing more at the time, as the five really aren't enough, and seldom drop below 100% load 24/7. All five are still rock-solid.

The only failure since 2020 which was actually a big deal was a Corsair DDR4 dummy RAM kit, which had around an 80% failure rate with most being DOA. I pulled them from sale once returns indicated there was clearly an issue, and Corsair recalled them very shortly thereafter.

I have other reasons to steer people away from 14th Gen, such as lack of upgradability (future LGA1700 CPUs will lack E-cores and AI cores), often poorer value for money, sometimes poorer performance, higher power draw (and therefore poorer thermals), etc.

With the above in mind, I'll be keeping a close eye on the Intel situation and act accordingly :)
 
Progenix Oj101 said:
I'll throw my thoughts on the matter. Maybe this turns out to be a bigger deal down the line, but based on experience this is the media hype-train in full effect. I've watched these hype-trains in the past and seen the effects they have.

The following will include some anecdotes as well as stats based on figures that are 100x larger than the SA market as a whole.

Asus motherboards melting AM5 CPUs
Asus have two motherboard distributors in the country, neither took action, and neither even knew about the issue. Asus ZA was unaware as well and, to date, hasn't had a return due to a motherboard melting a CPU.

Gigabyte PB-series PSUs exploding
There are two distributors for Gigabyte PSUs in the country. One had two returns within the affected serial number range. Of the two, one was just completely dead (POSSIBLY (and I say this with no evidence) due to load shedding, which was a daily occurrence at the time), and the other was returned because the customer wanted a replacement that didn't fall within the SN range. The other distributor is oblivious to the matter as there weren't returns.

NZXT cases catching fire
This had probably the greatest effect on sales of all the hype-train events of late. I watched disti stock levels stay exactly the same for about a week. No issues were reported.

As with all previous events, this MIGHT end up being a big deal. It might end up being the biggest deal since the Pentium FVID bug from 30 years ago. AS IT STANDS, though, this is just media hyping up a situation to get views. Clickbait gets views, drama gets views, and before you know it something is blown completely out of proportion.

Across the board, whether I look at my own returns, speak to distributors with national figures, speak to vendors' local offices to see if international figures are worth talking about, or even look at international retailer numbers that have been released, 13th and 14th Gen have had a lower failure rate than AM5. Everyone is aware of the situation, but nobody is seeing the same figures the media is portraying.

Side note, strangely, and I don't really see the correlation, more RAM is returned from AM5 systems than Intel DDR5 systems .

Some recent stats:

Intel: This covers 10th, and 12th through 14th Gen - yes, some people still buy 10th Gen

Intel CPUs sold: 118
Intel CPUs returned: 0
Intel CPUs replaced: 0
Intel return rate: 0%
Intel replacement rate: 0%
Breakdown of returns:
  • N/A

AMD: This covers Ryzen 4000-, 5000- and 7000-Series - no recent 3000-Series or older sales

AMD CPUs sold: 97
AMD CPUs returned: 5
AMD CPUs replaced: 4
AMD return rate: 5.2%
AMD replacement rate: 4.1%
Breakdown of returns:
  • 1 x Ryzen 5 4500 - faulty
  • 1 x Ryzen 7 5800X3D - no fault found
  • 1 x Ryzen 5 7600X - faulty
  • 1 x Ryzen 7 7700 - faulty
  • 1 x Ryzen 7 7700X - faulty

All failure rates have been below 5%, which is an industry-acceptable level.

Anecdote. I have a friend that deployed five i9-13900 (non-K) CPUs as servers more than a year ago. Budget is the only thing that prevented the company from doing more at the time, as the five really aren't enough, and seldom drop below 100% load 24/7. All five are still rock-solid.

The only failure since 2020 which was actually a big deal was a Corsair DDR4 dummy RAM kit, which had around an 80% failure rate with most being DOA. I pulled them from sale once returns indicated there was clearly an issue, and Corsair recalled them very shortly thereafter.

I have other reasons to steer people away from 14th Gen, such as lack of upgradability (future LGA1700 CPUs will lack E-cores and AI cores), often poorer value for money, sometimes poorer performance, higher power draw (and therefore poorer thermals), etc.

With the above in mind, I'll be keeping a close eye on the Intel situation and act accordingly :)
Click to expand...
That's kind of a reasonable assumption that companies selling this hardware stay abreast with any news and issues.

You will hear the words "we didn't know" a lot surrounding this because of the legal minefield it potentially creates. As a seller in any capacity I would be super careful now because a lot companies (customers) are going to catch wind of the news eventually, so beyond legal issues, just rolling with ignorance to try and escape accountability will damage relationships (trust) severely anyway.

Recommend touching base with a lawyer who specializes in this stuff because your approach of arguing this and taking one for the team, hand-waving, "personal experience" and whataboutism, jazz-hands in general is dangerous IMO, could potentially end in you blowing a fortune on ugly legal fights if things go properly off the rails. Your suppliers will also feed you bs to throw you under the bus here, up and down the chain people will be scrambling to escape accountability (can you really blame anyone doing that?), so just be careful.

I'm no legal expert but I think just being open and honest with customers is probably the best way forward, come hell or high-water, maybe preface any selling with warnings so you at least dodge serious backfire, but thinking about that, it does then introduce legal risk (unless you're very blunt about advising customers of the risk in writing.).
 
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