IOS backups, how are they supposed to work?

[sand_man]

I hate when that happens, but I thought id be clever here, do a restore from Itunes on my PC,
so I do the restore, brings back all my apps, but then sits and loads for over 2 hours finding everything once again, using the wifi, not the PC.

I dont get it, isnt the restore from Itunes supposed to bring back everything as it was supposed to be? even if you have no wifi?
or is there a setting I missing? when I did the initial backup.

I think the issue here is restoring backup over WLAN vs cable vs iCloud. If you have no wifi use a cable connecting iDevice to pc. If you have no internet you cannot restore from the iCloud and yes, the device after a successful restore will be exactly as you left it before resetting it.

iDevices can sync with iTunes wirelessly over your local wifi network. The rate at which data is transferred between iDevice and pc varies according to the hardware you using. If you using an entry level router running no better than 2.4Ghz, the transfer rate is unlikely to be much more than around 8Mbps. So 20gb's of data, apps, photos etc is going to take an hour or 2 to restore/backup.

The same process can be achieved connecting the iDevice to a pc using a cable but data transfer rates, especially over USB 3.0 are going to be a lot quicker, maybe 40Mbps? So the same restore/backup will take maybe 15-20 minutes to complete.

If the same process is being done via iCloud using your average 4Mbps internet connection with a measly 512kbps upload speed? well, you do the maths...

 

[Cassady]

Which passwords are you referring to? Apps? I don't recall any such problems and I've been using iCloud backup since the start and swopped devices a couple of times now but might just be that I didn't really take notice.

Quite possible it's changed - if you've never had issues, then probably already equivalent. Apple's pages states that the encrypted iTunes backup includes: Your saved passwords; Wi-Fi settings; Website history; Health data.

But it also says the iCloud backups are encrypted - just not sure if that includes the aforementioned - might now?
The various podcasters who often restore/backup iPhone/iPad review units (on a regular basis), always sang the praises of the encrypted iTunes backup, for this very reason. But as mentioned, that might have changed in iOS 10 (or late 9) - I vaguely recall reading something about that, IIRC.

[Edit]: Missed your later post. Ja - they might very well be virtually similar now. I guess if you are going to back up via iTunes -- slow internet making iCloud restore non-viable -- then use the Encrypted option, since it gives you the whole package... Just don't forget that encryption password!!

 

[SauRoNZA]

Quite possible it's changed - if you've never had issues, then probably already equivalent. Apple's pages states that the encrypted iTunes backup includes: Your saved passwords; Wi-Fi settings; Website history; Health data.

But it also says the iCloud backups are encrypted - just not sure if that includes the aforementioned - might now?
The various podcasters who often restore/backup iPhone/iPad review units (on a regular basis), always sang the praises of the encrypted iTunes backup, for this very reason. But as mentioned, that might have changed in iOS 10 (or late 9) - I vaguely recall reading something about that, IIRC.

[Edit]: Missed your later post. Ja - they might very well be virtually similar now. I guess if you are going to back up via iTunes -- slow internet making iCloud restore non-viable -- then use the Encrypted option, since it gives you the whole package... Just don't forget that encryption password!!

I can understand that the regular non-encrypted iTunes backup wouldn't include that data for obvious reasons but to me iCloud backups have always been super secure and included all of it.

But yeah like I said haven't actually compared the two to know the difference.

One day when Apple finally opens up iCloud Keychain to other apps on the phone all of that will also be a non-issue.

 

[Jet-Fighter7700]

I think the issue here is restoring backup over WLAN vs cable vs iCloud. If you have no wifi use a cable connecting iDevice to pc. If you have no internet you cannot restore from the iCloud and yes, the device after a successful restore will be exactly as you left it before resetting it.

iDevices can sync with iTunes wirelessly over your local wifi network. The rate at which data is transferred between iDevice and pc varies according to the hardware you using. If you using an entry level router running no better than 2.4Ghz, the transfer rate is unlikely to be much more than around 8Mbps. So 20gb's of data, apps, photos etc is going to take an hour or 2 to restore/backup.

The same process can be achieved connecting the iDevice to a pc using a cable but data transfer rates, especially over USB 3.0 are going to be a lot quicker, maybe 40Mbps? So the same restore/backup will take maybe 15-20 minutes to complete.

If the same process is being done via iCloud using your average 4Mbps internet connection with a measly 512kbps upload speed? well, you do the maths...

this is my point exactly, you must have wifi and internet and it must be able to access the internet to do anything really,
im sure if you anywhere else in the world, its not an issue, but if I was at home with our horribly slow and capped internet,
or on site with no connection, it becomes a big giant issue.

so again android shows its flexibility vs apple requiring you to connect to the net to get backups,
if you ask me its not ideal always,
yes its more secure fair enough, but often what one wants is speed and flexibility, not trying to DL something stored far away.

I cant really see the point of it, what if you out in the field? no connection, I assume the OOB shark will bite and bite very hard....

 

[Cassady]

this is my point exactly, you must have wifi and internet and it must be able to access the internet to do anything really,
im sure if you anywhere else in the world, its not an issue, but if I was at home with our horribly slow and capped internet,
or on site with no connection, it becomes a big giant issue.

so again android shows its flexibility vs apple requiring you to connect to the net to get backups,
if you ask me its not ideal always,
yes its more secure fair enough, but often what one wants is speed and flexibility, not trying to DL something stored far away.

I cant really see the point of it, what if you out in the field? no connection, I assume the OOB shark will bite and bite very hard....

You're not wrong - but then again, is that scenario so common enough for it to be an issue?

I've had various iPads since late 2011 - and in all that time, I simply cannot recall ever having to reset/wipe a device, other than when I wanted to sell it. It happened once on one of my iPhones - something funny that I did, in pulling down a iOS update from the web, rather than through iTunes/OTA.

Naturally, if you've bought a new device - and want to restore from the previous - then you are faced with this dilemma - but surely that's not unreasonable? It would then involve a bit of planning around where/when you do the restore, if internet is an issue.

[Edit]: Only noticed your post now, explaining what happened with the reset/wipe.

Last time I did a restore (for my new iPad and iPhone) - pretty sure it pulled everything through from iTunes - but must be honest, I wasn't really paying specific attention. That said, given both are 128gb devices, and pretty full - sure I would've noticed.

Regardless, it's something I will look out for when I next do one. Agree with you that the expected behaviour should be to get all from iTunes, without needing wifi/internet.

 

[sand_man]

this is my point exactly, you must have wifi and internet and it must be able to access the internet to do anything really,

Nope. An iTunes backup file resides on the pc/mac on which said backup was performed. So you can do a restore/backup without a working internet connection or wireless router. All that is required is the cable, iDevice and pc/mac/iTunes.

http://fixgadgetnow.com/iphone-area...-with-itunes-without-internet-complete-guide/

http://www.yologadget.com/how-to/restore-iphone-with-itunes-without-internet-complete-guide/

 

[bigboy529]

AFAIK I know, that's one of the key benefits of backing up via iTunes (though the recent iOS updates might have changed that). If you ENCRYPT the iTunes backup, it pulls in all your passwords etc., which means you don't have to re-enter all of them again - as you do, with an iCloud restore. As mentioned - that might have changed, but I've stuck with the iTunes backups for that reason - that, and my internet speeds saw the iCloud backup take forever.

Do you once in a while backup to iCloud as well? Reason I use iCloud is because it literally backs up each and every day without me even realizing it, as said I can go for months without remembering to do a iTunes backup.

If you infrequently do iCloud backups it will take a long time obviously also depending on your internet speed, but if you permanently leave it on letting it do its own thing, the backup it does every night hardly takes 5 minuts.

 

[bigboy529]

ok let me begin from the top,

company Ipad, got mobileiron on them, that software has a few security settings, one of them is data protection is automatically set to active,
and if you put in the password wrong too many times it wipes your device,

so I set up my touch ID, so I dont have to keep remembering the unlock code, but today it said "enter password to enable touch ID",
and I havent restarted the damm thing, so I tried and it eventually reset and wiped itself,

I hate when that happens, but I thought id be clever here, do a restore from Itunes on my PC,
so I do the restore, brings back all my apps, but then sits and loads for over 2 hours finding everything once again, using the wifi, not the PC.

I dont get it, isnt the restore from Itunes supposed to bring back everything as it was supposed to be? even if you have no wifi?
or is there a setting I missing? when I did the initial backup.


its just so broken, if you do a restore, everything comes back as it was before,

with this I did the restore, and then it sits loading everything once again,
lost all my wifi passwords, and all my paired BT devices,

so whats the point of the backup feature?

no thanks, Ill stick with my android phone.... at least that makes sense in some way.

You must have done something wrong, just the other day I reset and restored my iPhone from a iTunes backup, yes the apps all had to download as you experienced, but after that all settings was still in tact, wifi networks, Bluetooth devices, I was still logged in to Google maps, third party twitter apps etc.

I suggest for your use, you start using iCloud backup which is basically a set up and forget, as long as you are connected to wifi whenever charging it. It will be slower to restore though, because then you'll have to wait for everything to download over the internet, but at least it will take your frustration/confusion with iTunes out the picture.

 

[Jet-Fighter7700]

Nope. An iTunes backup file resides on the pc/mac on which said backup was performed. So you can do a restore/backup without a working internet connection or wireless router. All that is required is the cable, iDevice and pc/mac/iTunes.

http://fixgadgetnow.com/iphone-area...-with-itunes-without-internet-complete-guide/

http://www.yologadget.com/how-to/restore-iphone-with-itunes-without-internet-complete-guide/

so is it me being an id10t and not selecting backup app data when I created my itunes backup?
so if I did that it would have backed up everything without a working internet connection, and restored without having to pull everything through when it did its restore?

ok, but then why isnt it easier to do this? I mean if one restores, why isnt there a way to see whats saved in the backup, and know beforehand that youll need internet to complete the restoration fully? (does an option like that exist?)

again my point of IOS not being flexibility enough, I mean with android, id load my titanium backup, give it its file and off it goes,
get everything back exactly as I expected it to be, no running around with wifi/3g and synchronizing when there isnt internet.

true, in my specific case I got this Mobileiron thingimajig on the ipad that prevent icloud from working properly,

but my next question is this, if I didnt have Mobileiron and I could use icloud properly, would it behave as I expect it to be?

 

[Jet-Fighter7700]

You must have done something wrong, just the other day I reset and restored my iPhone from a iTunes backup, yes the apps all had to download as you experienced, but after that all settings was still in tact, wifi networks, Bluetooth devices, I was still logged in to Google maps, third party twitter apps etc.

I suggest for your use, you start using iCloud backup which is basically a set up and forget, as long as you are connected to wifi whenever charging it. It will be slower to restore though, because then you'll have to wait for everything to download over the internet, but at least it will take your frustration/confusion with iTunes out the picture.

as I mentioned in one of my posts, icloud is banned/blocked for us,
due to the mobileiron thingabob not working properly with it, so we been told not to use it and turn it off,

so I HAVE to use itunes, but I must have done something wrond as it didnt restore everything as I expected it to , still pulled things and that took time to finish,

 

[Jet-Fighter7700]

Due to me complaining about iOS and my inexperience with Mac OS,
Somebody sent me this,

 

[sand_man]

so is it me being an id10t and not selecting backup app data when I created my itunes backup?

It started long before that, probably around the time you forgot your passcode.

so if I did that it would have backed up everything without a working internet connection, and restored without having to pull everything through when it did its restore?

Correct.

ok, but then why isnt it easier to do this? I mean if one restores, why isnt there a way to see whats saved in the backup, and know beforehand that youll need internet to complete the restoration fully? (does an option like that exist?)

Easier than connecting a cable from your iDevice to pc? Backup's are encrypted and compressed, I suspect, to save space and protect your data should you lose it. If you can see what's saved to backup so can anyone else who happens to stumble upon your computer.

again my point of IOS not being flexibility enough, I mean with android, id load my titanium backup, give it its file and off it goes,
get everything back exactly as I expected it to be, no running around with wifi/3g and synchronizing when there isnt internet.

Yes, but what happens if your sd card stops working, becomes corrupt and/or physically damaged, or worse, stolen along with the phone? Can the thief pop your sd card into his own android and restore from backup? Exactly how you had it on your phone? Alternatively your laptop gets stolen along with your phones backup files, easy pickings no?

true, in my specific case I got this Mobileiron thingimajig on the ipad that prevent icloud from working properly,

but my next question is this, if I didnt have Mobileiron and I could use icloud properly, would it behave as I expect it to be?

With iCloud not being an option for you there's only 2 ways for you to backup and restore and that's via iTunes on a pc/laptop/mac, either using a cable or wirelessly over WLAN.

Due to me complaining about iOS and my inexperience with Mac OS,
Somebody sent me this,

You could just as easily swap Mac with Windows. Personal preferences I guess.

 

[Jet-Fighter7700]

So what's the best when backing up? As an alternative,
If for instance I don't have iTunes installed, i.e. On win 10 that just shows up as a portable drive you can't do anything on.

As somebody mentioned in another thread acronis latest version does iOS AND android backups using cable now,

I trust my life to acronis, shouldn't I use that instead?
As it makes more sense than iTunes and iCloud that's blocked for us.

Is mean with iTunes you need internet right?
So again to my initial problem, if you have iTunes backup with that,

But if you out in the field with just a iPhone cable what can one do without internet? And a bunch of windows pc's

 

[sand_man]

So what's the best when backing up? As an alternative,
If for instance I don't have iTunes installed, i.e. On win 10 that just shows up as a portable drive you can't do anything on.

I've only ever used iTunes but there plenty alternatives. List doesn't include Acronis though but if you trust it, use it...

https://tunesgo.wondershare.com/itunes-transfer/free-alternatives-to-itunes.html

I trust my life to acronis, shouldn't I use that instead?
As it makes more sense than iTunes and iCloud that's blocked for us.

I thought it was just iCloud that's blocked for you? Why does the company use iDevices if all the accompanying tools are not available? Just move to Android?

Is mean with iTunes you need internet right?
So again to my initial problem, if you have iTunes backup with that,

Pardon?

But if you out in the field with just a iPhone cable what can one do without internet? And a bunch of windows pc's

For the umpteenth (and last time) you can restore an iTunes saved backup without internet connectivity.

 

[sand_man]

http://www.acronis.com/en-us/personal/mobile-device-backup/

I've only ever used Acronis to partition and backup drives. Worked BRILLIANTLY!! Interesting to see how they've diversified the product...

 

[DA-LION-619]

RTFM

 

[Jet-Fighter7700]

Don't know why iCloud is blocked for us, or why they insist on buying pad air 2's also not sure why we use this MobileIron thingy

I think it's for remote management, that gets managed overseas,
And maybe iCloud is a danger or something,

I'll definitely use acronis next time, it makes sense as I do trust it with my pc and gotten me out of jams before quite easily.

 

[SauRoNZA]

this is my point exactly, you must have wifi and internet and it must be able to access the internet to do anything really,
im sure if you anywhere else in the world, its not an issue, but if I was at home with our horribly slow and capped internet,
or on site with no connection, it becomes a big giant issue.

so again android shows its flexibility vs apple requiring you to connect to the net to get backups,
if you ask me its not ideal always,
yes its more secure fair enough, but often what one wants is speed and flexibility, not trying to DL something stored far away.

I cant really see the point of it, what if you out in the field? no connection, I assume the OOB shark will bite and bite very hard....

Thing is normal people remember their passwords and never require resetting their device...

 

[SauRoNZA]

RTFM

He's going to ask "What manual?" now.

 

[sajunky]

So what's the best when backing up? As an alternative,

iTunes is an alternative. Local backup using iTunes works the same as cloud backup. I think it will need temporary Internet connection to validate your account. After that everything can be done offline. Sync your apps with iTunes, then do encrypted backup.

This is about apps and backup. If you want sync music, movies, books..., you might be disappointed.