IT professionals better off in SA

The_Librarian said:
+1

Unfortunately, most n00bies are blinded by visions of $$$ and doesn't want a low-paying job... but a cushy job, with office, PA, company car and other perks...

I started at the bottom, as PC technician, and worked myself up. I don't want a managerial post, I'm not manager material, and is quite happy where I am at the stage :) messing around with new programs, methodologies, ideas and the such.

Besides, damagement gets k@kked out first if something goes wrong :D
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I once worked for a company where a Masters degree was a pre-requisite. I didn't agree with that, but it shows how places can pick and choose.
 
The_Librarian said:
+1

Unfortunately, most n00bies are blinded by visions of $$$ and doesn't want a low-paying job... but a cushy job, with office, PA, company car and other perks...

I started at the bottom, as PC technician, and worked myself up. I don't want a managerial post, I'm not manager material, and is quite happy where I am at the stage :) messing around with new programs, methodologies, ideas and the such.

Besides, damagement gets k@kked out first if something goes wrong :D
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The thing is, if you just get down and do a damn good job, the money will follow.

I've been fortunate enough to employ a number of people over the years and watch them grow.

Was actually chatting to one such guy last night and we still joked for how little he started (was a student who had not completed his studies yet at that time). Today he earns ~40 times more than in those early days. And I can't recall once when he asked for an increase. Rather as his skills grew his compensation tracked.

Another case of a chap that joined about 2 years ago. He's now on 5x his starting salary and it'll probably jump quite substantially again this year.

The important thing with both these (technical guys) is that they never asked for a lot of money. Rather they had (and have) a passion for the industry and thus a burning desire to get better at it. And the money followed.
 
SA will survive because we all get paid kuk salaries so the companies won't have as much stress.
 
metalcore said:
SA will survive because we all get paid kuk salaries so the companies won't have as much stress.
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I might get paid a *** salary now, but the experience I'm picking up would cost me more than x10 my current salary. I'm a junior developer
(2yrs on the job) and I already earn more than when I was in my 5th year of sales.

Agree with Vodacom3g and realize its all about attitude. The only "poor" senior developers are lazzy arss's who do not improve their skills.
 
cbrunsdonza said:
I might get paid a *** salary now, but the experience I'm picking up would cost me more than x10 my current salary. I'm a junior developer
(2yrs on the job) and I already earn more than when I was in my 5th year of sales.

Agree with Vodacom3g and realize its all about attitude. The only "poor" senior developers are lazzy arss's who do not improve their skills.
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That's another point. If you're in IT, it's essential to BE ABLE to refine and renew skills. Many firms don't understand that there is value in staying sharp.
 
Sackboy : That applies to all industries... especially technical ones.
 
chubster said:
The lying part is associated with work experience, because you can pass their test 100%, the moment you say you don't have work experience they all turn you down, capetown johburg, all seem to do the same. I had the guys telling me I aced their tests, better than some of their senior developers and still they turned me down. Simply because "lack of working experience". So now I ask you how the hell do you get experience if they won't let you. It is so difficult to get into the market. So how do you make a name for your self and support your family at the same time? without losing your birdcage that the bank/wolves are drooling to take back. So it comes down to doing low end jobs just to get an income. Still I'm with you on South Africa is not the place for IT with science background.

Australia here I come.
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Good luck mate. My mom lives in Australia since 1980. She owns 3 companies and manages each one herself. With her husbands teaching job and his sheep farm (in the most productive sheep farming area in the world) they still had to apply for a government subsidy to get my half brother into a good boarding school. It aint easy there!!!

They all work menial jobs earning barely livable wages. (BTW He is an IT lecturer)

And how do you plan to get into Australia if you do not have the relevant experience of doing these low waged jobs?
 
I have come to the conclusion that Sackboy is a troll and he's talking out of his ass.
 
Masie studied computer science at Tel Aviv University. “My life really took off, and when I returned I found that my friends were still stuck in the old lifestyle. I had seen a different world, and that cross-pollination matures a person. That’s the beauty of connectivity: people interacting with each other all over the world. You don’t necessarily have to step onto a plane. All you need is a device as simple as a mobile phone to connect.
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Google SA Country Manager.
http://mybroadband.co.za/news/Internet/6517.html
 
vodacom3g said:
Sackboy, you seem to suffer from this delusion that only yourself (and now Stafford) have traveled and worked outside South Africa.

You are very wrong.
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Again you write things I never said. Do try and address that little problem, pa-leeze.

A less "delusional" conclusion would be that working abroad and traveling broadens the mind. How long a period were you abroad, or was it a quick business trip? Did you study abroad, and I don't mean short courses?
 
Sackboy : he isn't the only person who got that impression from you...

And you've made statements, but when asked to back them up with facts you duck and dive.. Right now in this thread you are looking more and more like a troll.

You were asked to provide details on how long you have worked with computers and what type of experience you've had. YOu are yet to answer such a simple request.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Sackboy : he isn't the only person who got that impression from you...

And you've made statements, but when asked to back them up with facts you duck and dive.. Right now in this thread you are looking more and more like a troll.

You were asked to provide details on how long you have worked with computers and what type of experience you've had. YOu are yet to answer such a simple request.
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Toxic, this thread isn't about me. Kindly return to topic and cut the ad-hominems. You obviously disagree, so spend more time convincing me and others from your OWN experiences.
 
Sackboy said:
A less "delusional" conclusion would be that working abroad and traveling broadens the mind. How long a period were you abroad, or was it a quick business trip? Did you study abroad, and I don't mean short courses?
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Did you? :rolleyes:

And more importantly, if it's SO much better overseas, why did you come back to SA?

And what is your current job description?
 
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I think that Sackboy deliberately disagrees and undermines people just for the sake of argument, as can be seen in this thread. Don't take the bait people.
 
Sackboy : You're constantly asking those type of questions of other people, therefore it is only fair that you yourself answer them in good faith.
 
MY final post on this topic and in response to a PM sackboy sent me asking why I'm being 'argumentative'. I thought I'd rather answer here, without re-posting his PM;

So sackboy, the answer is no; I'm neither bored, drunk nor have too much free time.

What I do have, however, is utmost respect for the skills and capabilities of the local IT industry and I found your insinuations that South Africa is somehow a second-rate IT environment not just highly uninformed but also insulting to the country and especially to the very members who made this forum what it is.

And I don't base my observations on something I read in the job sections of the local newspapers (trying, unsuccessfully, to find a job), but on actively being involved in the local and international industry for the last 25 years, with direct involvement in businesses in Asia/Oz, UK/Europe and the US.

And from extensive involvement with the local corporations, who often demonstrate world-leading skills and capabilities.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Sackboy : You're constantly asking those type of questions of other people, therefore it is only fair that you yourself answer them in good faith.
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He is a troll who doesn't answer questions. His favorite ploy is to make a statement and then tell everyone who asks for his reasoning that they should instead explain why he is wrong, all the while construing and questioning of his reasoning as a personal attack.

The whole facade is mildly amusing for 10 minutes or so.
 
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