Jimmy Manyi at it again

[Bageloo]

There's nothing to argue, you merely thumb sucked a number.

Yes, I also said 'probably', an indication of uncertainty. The number could be more or could be less.

 

[Slooth]

Yes, I also said 'probably', an indication of uncertainty. The number could be more or could be less.

It's nothing without substantial source. End of story.

 

[Bageloo]

Actually more accurately, White male / Black male is around 7:1, not 20:1 for top management and senior management is closer to 5:1 Middle management is 3:1


This is changing rapidly and if you look at ITWeb today you will see figures of CIO's for instance. Only 52% are white males.

From a previous post, white unemployment rates grew at the fastest pace of all unemployment rates. Between 1995 and 2002, white unemployment rates doubled (an increase of more than 100%), while black unemployment rates increased by just 22%. Although white unemployment remains much lower than black unemployment, it is growing more rapidly.


I think it is fair to conclude that marginilisation does in fact take place due to the slow pace of job creation and the enforcement of AA and EE.

One more unemployed person leads to 100% increase where there was 0% unemployment before.

 

[sox63]

Actually more accurately, White male / Black male is around 7:1, not 20:1 for top management and senior management is closer to 5:1 Middle management is 3:1


This is changing rapidly and if you look at ITWeb today you will see figures of CIO's for instance. Only 52% are white males.

From a previous post, white unemployment rates grew at the fastest pace of all unemployment rates. Between 1995 and 2002, white unemployment rates doubled (an increase of more than 100%), while black unemployment rates increased by just 22%. Although white unemployment remains much lower than black unemployment, it is growing more rapidly.


I think it is fair to conclude that marginilisation does in fact take place due to the slow pace of job creation and the enforcement of AA and EE.

I'm not going to question the validity of the stats you have presented, however are these stats for both Public and Private sector?

 

[BobbyMac]

One more unemployed person leads to 100% increase where there was 0% unemployment before.

So you're suggesting there were zero unemployed whites in the past?

 

[Bageloo]

It's nothing without substantial source. End of story.

You still cannot divert from the point by zooming in on the validity of the 20:1 number. It might be slightly exaggerated but that is not the point. The point was white managers cannot claim to be marginalised when the ratio is so much more in their favour.

 

[BobbyMac]

You still cannot divert from the point by zooming in on the validity of the 20:1 number. It might be slightly exaggerated but that is not the point. The point was white managers cannot claim to be marginalised when the ratio is so much more in their favour.

You thumb-sucked, and now you use that figure as a probability???? Then you try and rebut by screwing with other figures and suggesting there was zero unemployment to begin with? The mind boggles.

 

[Bageloo]

You thumb-sucked, and now you use that figure as a probability???? Then you try and rebut by screwing with other figures and suggesting there was zero unemployment to begin with? The mind boggles.

probability, thumb suck, whatever but do you even get the point? It makes little difference whether it's 20:1, 10:1 or 3:1, the fact is white managers can not claim to be marginalised. Why don't you dispute that fact instead of trying to play numbers games.

 

[Sneeky]

Wokkaai, actually my numbers are not stated correctly

Sox the stats come from the Commission for Employment Equity report for '06 and '07 (chaired by Jimmy Manyi, go figure), it is downloadable.

They are quoted in percentages there but for eg if we take a category (eg, males with 3 arms, 1 eye and 20 legs) and 50% of them are white males and 6% are black males that gives me 8.33 white males to 1 black male working off a total base of 100.
Not ratio but representativity.
So in context with what Bageloo stated my numbers are not correct, but a different way of looking at it.

edit: Sorry Bageloo

 

[milomak]

As for the pay thing, was there not a report that white males on average still get paid more than any other classification you can come up with in South Africa?

 

[koffiejunkie]

The point was white managers cannot claim to be marginalised when the ratio is so much more in their favour.

Bageloo, wrong or right, it does happen. Make up a CV under a good old Afrikaans name like Jan van der Merwe, send it out and see how many replies you get. Replace the name with an African sounding name - you'll get a good idea of the reality.

 

[NameOfBeast]

Manyi continues to provoke:

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/opinion.aspx?ID=BD4A543383

Jimmy Manyi’s sympathies are horribly misplaced, Forbes’ white “babysitter” irks Manyi (August 16).

In principle I agree with Manyi — the appointment of Bruce Campbell is a huge step backwards in terms of the transformation agenda.

But Peter Moyo and Campbell deserve each other.

Manyi makes reference to Moyo’s track record. Yes, Moyo has educational qualifications and experience as deputy MD of Old Mutual, but his track record there has been characterised by absolute disdain and contempt for South African blacks working there. The one or two blacks that Moyo appointed to senior positions deserved to be in those positions. They owe him nothing.

During Moyo’s tenure at Old Mutual we saw:

n A BEE deal he helped engineer — with his friends and associates. At the end of the day, it was a deal that smacked of self-enrichment in the name of black economic empowerment;

n A flood of Zimbabweans who assumed management positions. The only significant position to which Moyo appointed a black South African was when he employed Khehla Mthembu — who was, to paraphrase Mathatha Tsedu, a “house ******” at Old Mutual.

Vuyisile Jacobs
Port Elizabeth

While we have a contrary view here:

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/opinion.aspx?ID=BD4A543381

Manyi on target :

Whenever President Thabo Mbeki raises the issue of racism in South African society, the so-called “commentators” are quick to say he is playing the race card. But the sad reality is horrendous; black people are still being appointed to serve white interests and are made to be the puppets of their bosses.

 

[TiredOfWaiting]

Is there really a point to all of this?

This entire BEE situation reeks of what is currently happening in Zimbabwe. International businesses are dominantly managed by white males, with few exceptions. To try and "convince" these companies to appoint 80% black people is folly and will only lead to resentment and hatred.

They need to get rid of all European business to do this, which is what Zim tried, with disastrous consequences.