Job Hunting

[Hamster]

Why would it be illegal?

Surely one can start whatever club one wants & charge for it.

Or they wanted to make it illegal

/searches for article

EDIT: http://www.labour.gov.za/DOL/media-...eport-employment-agencies-charging-extra-fees

"As the Department we wish to categorically put on record that no agency is allowed by law to charge jobseekers any amount exceeding R1 for registration", the Minister said.

*

Regulations passed under the Skills Development Act (1998) clearly deal with the operation of PEA's.

*

This Act clearly sets out rights and obligations for PEA's to ensure that the industry is regulated in acceptable manner.

*

Among others, the regulation states that an employment service shall not:

Charge fees to workseekers exceeding a registration fee of R1.* An additional amount of 7,5% of the remuneration that the workseeker receives at the end of the first month or a shorter period.Charge an amount for an advertisement that the agency may have placed in a publication in addition to the above mentioned amount unless authorised by the workseeker.

"Any agency requesting an upfront payment of more than R1 in return for registration is illegal and they should report the agency to the nearest DoL provincial office or labour centre", said Minister Mdladlana

 

[crackersa]

You didn't really read or grasp what I said in those posts, and of course you are going to defend them since you work for them.

Don't see the point of this discussion really, if you are happy working for them then good.

He has a degree....you need to present it as an exam.

 

[crackersa]

Hi Folks,

As a senior manager at Entelect i'd be more than happy to have a discussion one-on-one with anyone here who has questions about our hiring policies (I understand the degree-only policy is a sticking point, and while this means we deny ourselves access to some really great talent out there, it is a brand decision that we've committed to).

Entelect has some direct competitors on this forum, for example Mr. X works for one such competitor (who are a great company too, by the way). While it's understandable that he won't be kind to us in a public forum, I think this sort of gossip is unprofessional and misleading. We've built our brand on being an employee-centric company, recognized formally two years in a row by Deloitte BCTWF and a number of HR awards - testament to our commitment to building the best software company in SA.

If you're keen to learn a bit more about Entelect or up for a friendly debate please feel free to contact me.

Why the decision to acquire degree only people? What is the end goal?

 

[Spacerat]

>/% snip

- testament to our commitment to building the best software company in SA.

If you're keen to learn a bit more about Entelect or up for a friendly debate please feel free to contact me.

ag please...

 

[[)roi(]]

Why the decision to acquire degree only people? What is the end goal?

Similarly dumbfounded; even Microsoft, Apple, Google and others recruit based on talent and/or prowess.

 

[crackersa]

Seems some senior managers don't have degrees

http://www.entelect.co.za/DisplayLink.aspx?group=About Us&name=N/A

 

[Solarion]

Seems some senior managers don't have degrees

http://www.entelect.co.za/DisplayLink.aspx?group=About Us&name=N/A

Needs a reporting feature you say? I'll just solder one in.

 

[cguy]

Similarly dumbfounded; even Microsoft, Apple, Google and others recruit based on talent and/or prowess.

Agreed. The vast majority of the SV firm hires have degrees, and they filter out most applicants based on their degrees, however, when a very experienced non-degree candidate comes along, they consider them, and sometimes hire them. A blanket rule about "degrees only" and being non-negotiable is idiotic.

 

[[)roi(]]

Agreed. The vast majority of the SV firm hires have degrees, and they filter out most applicants based on their degrees, however, when a very experienced non-degree candidate comes along, they consider them, and sometimes hire them. A blanket rule about "degrees only" and being non-negotiable is idiotic.

We're probably missing some internal specifics; because a policy like that implies all things are equal; something degrees (e.g. SA and/or Africa) or more specifically the many candidates that scraped through, are simply not worthy of the implied status. I'm certainly not saying all are a fruit of poisoned tree; but really since 1994 it's hard to find SA education standards that weren't hit hard by the government's dumbing down policies.

Speaking from experience; for the last decade with the tutoring of students; I became all to aware how easy the clueless earn the supposedly "prestigious" SA degrees.

 

[Oppiekoffie]

Entelect? Who haven't heard of them. Was there when they , or the youngster ,presented the Cycling South Africa Website. Yaaaahh. And there they display ID numbers on the presentation, to go out live. eISH.
Degrees only, of course, it creates the imporession that there aren't skills. Not all developers went to uni. Some went directly to Microsoft, did the courses, got a junior role, are just as good as degreeds. Its just something to move degreed devs around at very high costs. I've worked with degreed, MS/Oracle/SAP etc certified. Never seen much difference between development. Depending obviously where you work. Just my 2c.

 

[FarligOpptreden]

Entelect? Who haven't heard of them. Was there when they , or the youngster ,presented the Cycling South Africa Website. Yaaaahh. And there they display ID numbers on the presentation, to go out live. eISH.
Degrees only, of course, it creates the imporession that there aren't skills. Not all developers went to uni. Some went directly to Microsoft, did the courses, got a junior role, are just as good as degreeds. Its just something to move degreed devs around at very high costs. I've worked with degreed, MS/Oracle/SAP etc certified. Never seen much difference between development. Depending obviously where you work. Just my 2c.

People with degrees typically have better spelling, grammar and use of punctuation. Mostly because they're forced to write many (long) essays over a 3-4 year period. Do you have a degree?

 

[crackersa]

People with degrees typically have better spelling, grammar and use of punctuation. Mostly because they're forced to write many (long) essays over a 3-4 year period. Do you have a degree?

Considering his username, I would suspect English is not his first language. A person with a degree would have considered that. Do you have a degree?

 

[FarligOpptreden]

Considering his username, I would suspect English is not his first language. A person with a degree would have considered that. Do you have a degree?

English isn't my first language either, but I make a point of constructing my sentences and paragraphs properly before posting. I also READ my replies before hitting the "post" button.

My point is that his post appeared to demean developers with degrees and I wanted to show that degrees instill a sense of discipline in one's work, even if it's just making sure you type proper code that is well formatted, easily understandable and without spelling mistakes. More often than not your code will be read and maintained by other people, so the least you can do is make it easy for them to follow. In my experience, degreed individuals tend to write "cleaner" (and often more "computer sciency") code than those without degrees.

And yes, I have a degree. I'm also glad you didn't type "would of". It drives me insane! So thank you for that.

 

[cguy]

English isn't my first language either, but I make a point of constructing my sentences and paragraphs properly before posting. I also READ my replies before hitting the "post" button.

My point is that his post appeared to demean developers with degrees and I wanted to show that degrees instill a sense of discipline in one's work, even if it's just making sure you type proper code that is well formatted, easily understandable and without spelling mistakes. More often than not your code will be read and maintained by other people, so the least you can do is make it easy for them to follow. In my experience, degreed individuals tend to write "cleaner" (and often more "computer sciency") code than those without degrees.

And yes, I have a degree. I'm also glad you didn't type "would of". It drives me insane! So thank you for that.

He's also making the assumption that the degreed developers he has worked with are representative, which I doubt they are. He also then goes on to say, "depending obviously where you work", which is true and makes his previous statement irrelevant. It's like saying, all C developers are trapeze artists - obviously depending on where you work...

 

[crackersa]

English isn't my first language either, but I make a point of constructing my sentences and paragraphs properly before posting. I also READ my replies before hitting the "post" button.

My point is that his post appeared to demean developers with degrees and I wanted to show that degrees instill a sense of discipline in one's work, even if it's just making sure you type proper code that is well formatted, easily understandable and without spelling mistakes. More often than not your code will be read and maintained by other people, so the least you can do is make it easy for them to follow. In my experience, degreed individuals tend to write "cleaner" (and often more "computer sciency") code than those without degrees.

And yes, I have a degree. I'm also glad you didn't type "would of". It drives me insane! So thank you for that.

Crap....I did good English? My yank side is slowly disappearing.

Since I have moved to Cape Town, I have met afrikaaner that really struggle with English so I have learned to keep an open mind.

And I have no problems with someone having a degree. I encourage it as it opens doors easily.

BTW I do not have a degree.


Edit - the devs I work with are funny. They are known to put in the comments "I did stuff"

 

[skimread]

I think Entelect does think out the box much more than other companies in SA if you look at some of their initiatives like the yearly coding gaming challenge. So I applaud them for that. However their HR views with a ludicrous over-priced hocus-survey and defending that survey in this thread I think is rather a reflection of how South Africa's HR departments haven't innovated like technology has. I think HR should be ripe for disruption but it's like they are the most prehistoric in their thinking without them critically analyzing their HR practices. Everything about forced benefits like shoving Discovery down our throats, using under performing pension funds, insisting to use recruiters as middlemen etc

Innovation in HR is so rare that it makes news headlines when a company in SA used github test to hire someone. No ethnicity,gender,age,academic discrimination or nepotism. Just judged on your skills like it should be.

 

[FarligOpptreden]

He's also making the assumption that the degreed developers he has worked with are representative, which I doubt they are. He also then goes on to say, "depending obviously where you work", which is true and makes his previous statement irrelevant. It's like saying, all C developers are trapeze artists - obviously depending on where you work...

I guess this whole discussion is futile then.

Crap....I did good English? My yank side is slowly disappearing.

Since I have moved to Cape Town, I have met afrikaaner that really struggle with English so I have learned to keep an open mind.

And I have no problems with someone having a degree. I encourage it as it opens doors easily.

BTW I do not have a degree.


Edit - the devs I work with are funny. They are known to put in the comments "I did stuff"

Better get back to 'Murica then, ya'll hear now?

 

[krycor]

Why the decision to acquire degree only people? What is the end goal?

I reckon it's the usual risk aversion.

No offense to non-degreed folk but I find that the chance of needing someone to hold your hand is exceptionally higher and often we would get told there is no sample problem so they stuck. Degree people, particularly the ones that struggled are lot more self sufficient. I dunno maybe probability of this personality is mor probable with undegreed

With the very successful universities in SA, there is a lot of learn to swim, find help yourself or drown/drop out.. this is partially why people learn to be self sufficient.

That being said the new generation seems to be very likely to throw hands in the air.. which is sad because if you in your 30s or 40+ it means he chance of finding someone who can take on the improbable is less likely and you as good as it gets in country like SA.

 

[DWAAS]

https://shoprite.erecruit.co.za/can...Western_Cape/4f11591247834c0eabc940d19664b300

 

[Gnome]

Well then you're looking in the wrong place.

I've only had positive experiences with recruiters...

Not sure why they are hated so much.
Because of recruiters our salaries are always increasing and we are constantly aware of more opportunities.