K53 No longer relevant for sa drivers - RTMC

[ForceFate]

And wreck their cars before they're ever able to reach me.

I've seen it a few times before, especially in morning and afternoon peak traffic.

 

[Swa]

I've seen it a few times before, especially in morning and afternoon peak traffic.

Someone going fast enough to overtake and then hitting the pavement without wrecking their vehicle?

 

[ForceFate]

Someone going fast enough to overtake and then hitting the pavement without wrecking their vehicle?

You mean you've never witnessed it before? You must be driving amongst calm and civilised people then.

 

[Swa]

You mean you've never witnessed it before? You must be driving amongst calm and civilised people then.

Never have. Have seen people creep and park on pavements but not the situation I'm talking of and not a concern as they don't overtake and end up back on the road.

 

[ArmatageShanks]

It's not that those causing the accidents aren't educated or experienced, they are stupid! Or drunk. Anyway just nature weeding out the weak, with some unfortunate casualties sometimes.

 

[Drake2007]

Someone going fast enough to overtake and then hitting the pavement without wrecking their vehicle?

Very common practice with Taxis around South Road and Marlboro Drive in Sandton during peak hour.

 

[Lupus]

This. Oh, so much this! I can't count the number of idiots that I've run into who do driving lessons and a licence in a Code 10 vehicle so that they can skip some of the parking tests. Then they ride little hatchbacks like a Yaris or something, which you'd imagine would be trivially easy, but they have no idea how to park or maneuver the thing properly, and hold up traffic and cause hazards to themselves and everyone else around. I wish we could have this here.

The funny thing is, you only skip parallel parking, you've still got to alley dock the truck and all the other yard stuff. The only thing you don't do is one thing which isn't really that hard.
So to skip parallel parking you've got to learn to drive something that's far bigger, far heavier, has multiple gears for reverse and then you cannot drive a car properly anyway.
My BIL did his code 10 recently as he needed to drive a truck for work on occasion, says the normal one is actually easier and cheaper.

 

[Lupus]

You mean you've never witnessed it before? You must be driving amongst calm and civilised people then.

I've seen a taxi take out stop signs and a traffic light on the pavement. I've seen them continuously use the pavement where I live if the traffic is a bit backed up down the road.
In fact pedestrians barely use the one side because of the fear of a taxi flying at them.

 

[noxibox]

so nobody believes they can pull it off?

I mean if the laws are changed to require retesting after 5 years, and all the rest of it,

according to you guys, its a pipe dream?

Yes I agree, corruption is the biggest issue, but also the carnage every holiday season is something that needs to be seen to be believed.
so maybe the fact that so many die every holiday season, will make the changes happen?

The first question is what they hope to achieve? The next would be what kind of test they're going to implement and what the standards will be? Who are they going to consult to determine these standards? e.g. after 5 years how much better must you be at handling a car? Must you be even better still at the one after that? Should the person be able to react quickly, change gears without hesitation, accelerate quickly and smoothly from a stop, brake rapidly and smoothly to stop, handle skids and so on. If they're going to just repeat the test someone did when they were 18 or a stripped down version of it, then the testing is pointless. If you could pass it then you can probably pass it again. The only people they might filter out will be some old people who are no longer capable of operating a car.

The most useful thing that I've learned and that I do every single time before turning or changing lanes is checking my blindspot. Most of k53 really depends on the situation .e.g when I get to a robot or stop sign at night I'll do the full observation more for personal safety than anything else.

Checking the blind spot was a standard requirement long before some muppet even conceived of the mess that is K53. When there is head turning at stops it should be a slight movement unless there is a real need to turn the head more. What I've witnessed is people turning their head 90 degrees each way at stops. What are they looking for hundreds of metres down the crossing road? If they see a car a hundred metres away are they planning to wait to see if it stops? Night is the time when there is even less need to turn your head at a stop.

But you didn’t go right out into the live environment from the word go when you set foot in it did you?

It was the live environment under supervision.

Like someone said earlier most of us learnt in a parking lot. I think that part of it should just be made mandatory and tested in a minor capacity to make sure you can at least operate the machinery.

Maybe for the initial, very rudimentary basics it was done in a parking lot, but you can't learn to actually drive in a parking lot. So they could change the rules such that no permit is required to practice in a parking lot. Chances are though that practice areas would have to be provided since not everyone will have access to a private parking lot where they'll be allowed to practice (many places will ask you to leave) and with shops open 7 days a week it won't be that easy to find an empty, unused one anyway.

This. Oh, so much this! I can't count the number of idiots that I've run into who do driving lessons and a licence in a Code 10 vehicle so that they can skip some of the parking tests. Then they ride little hatchbacks like a Yaris or something, which you'd imagine would be trivially easy, but they have no idea how to park or maneuver the thing properly, and hold up traffic and cause hazards to themselves and everyone else around. I wish we could have this here.

At least they don't go for SUVs. Those things should require their own separate licence.

However there is something really wrong if someone can't go from operating a large vehicle to operating a small one. Everything should be easier in that Yaris.

How are people going to see arrows if they've reclined the seats so far back that they barely see the road directly in front of them?

Or huge cars where they can't see anything even with the seat up.

The funny thing is, you only skip parallel parking, you've still got to alley dock the truck and all the other yard stuff. The only thing you don't do is one thing which isn't really that hard.
So to skip parallel parking you've got to learn to drive something that's far bigger, far heavier, has multiple gears for reverse and then you cannot drive a car properly anyway.
My BIL did his code 10 recently as he needed to drive a truck for work on occasion, says the normal one is actually easier and cheaper.

Yes, I can't see how the truck one is easier and there's an algorithm for parallel parking that works, so anyone should be able to do it.

 

[noxibox]

or someone is coming up stupidly fast (bikers often do on the M5 here in CT, stupid idiots).

Bikers generally will be hyper-aware of their surroundings. Plus the faster you go the more vigilant you are. So an indicator is usually enough for them.

The other thing I have noticed is that the people with patience for a learner are the ones obeying road rules whilst the impatient and sometimes rude (hooting and sign language) motorist's have perhaps forgotten what it was like or have perhaps never been in a learners position, and once past us proceed to break some rule just down the road.

I'm always patient with learners, although I do hope their instructors are firmly telling them to go faster. My instructor was totally uncompromising - no tolerance for driving too slowly, braking too early, taking too long to pull away or to get to the speed limit, etc. My problem is people who have their licence who continue to drive like a nervous learner. Now those are the people they need to get off the roads. Nervous, hesitant, overly cautious people have no business operating a motor vehicle. There's also something very wrong when someone brakes to change lanes on a motorway or nearly stops at the end of an on-ramp. That's a failure to observe, plan and adjust.

 

[Swa]

The funny thing is, you only skip parallel parking, you've still got to alley dock the truck and all the other yard stuff. The only thing you don't do is one thing which isn't really that hard.
So to skip parallel parking you've got to learn to drive something that's far bigger, far heavier, has multiple gears for reverse and then you cannot drive a car properly anyway.
My BIL did his code 10 recently as he needed to drive a truck for work on occasion, says the normal one is actually easier and cheaper.

You'd be surprised how many people can't parallel park. Really all it is is some learned manoeuvres where you turn the steering at the poles being in specific spots and back again. Doesn't teach someone the theory on how to park.

Maybe for the initial, very rudimentary basics it was done in a parking lot, but you can't learn to actually drive in a parking lot. So they could change the rules such that no permit is required to practice in a parking lot. Chances are though that practice areas would have to be provided since not everyone will have access to a private parking lot where they'll be allowed to practice (many places will ask you to leave) and with shops open 7 days a week it won't be that easy to find an empty, unused one anyway.

They have one here opposite the old OK specifically for this.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Checking the blind spot was a standard requirement long before some muppet even conceived of the mess that is K53. When there is head turning at stops it should be a slight movement unless there is a real need to turn the head more. What I've witnessed is people turning their head 90 degrees each way at stops. What are they looking for hundreds of metres down the crossing road? If they see a car a hundred metres away are they planning to wait to see if it stops? Night is the time when there is even less need to turn your head at a stop.

But you absolutely have to turn your head to really check a blind spot? There is no other way. You can’t do it with just a slight movement, then you are just pretending.

.

Maybe for the initial, very rudimentary basics it was done in a parking lot, but you can't learn to actually drive in a parking lot. So they could change the rules such that no permit is required to practice in a parking lot. Chances are though that practice areas would have to be provided since not everyone will have access to a private parking lot where they'll be allowed to practice (many places will ask you to leave) and with shops open 7 days a week it won't be that easy to find an empty, unused one anyway.


.

I’m not talking about making a plan to find an abandoned area like we all did.

I’m talking about formal areas specific for this purpose.

Those could be actual “on the road” type spaces simulating the real world without endangering anyway.

 

[Kelerei]

The only people they might filter out will be some old people who are no longer capable of operating a car.

If that's the case, you still shouldn't have to go through the trouble of retesting: enforcing some kind of medical clearance beyond a certain age should suffice. We do that, together with shortening the period of time between license renewals...

 

[Lupus]

You'd be surprised how many people can't parallel park. Really all it is is some learned manoeuvres where you turn the steering at the poles being in specific spots and back again. Doesn't teach someone the theory on how to park.


They have one here opposite the old OK specifically for this.

Yeah but that's all that is needed to pass the test, instead of going for a truck license because it skips one parking thing? Oh and the emergency stop forgot it doesn't do that either.

 

[Swa]

The only people they might filter out will be some old people who are no longer capable of operating a car.

If that's the case, you still shouldn't have to go through the trouble of retesting: enforcing some kind of medical clearance beyond a certain age should suffice. We do that, together with shortening the period of time between license renewals...

Reaction testing is what should be done past a certain age. The problem I have with the actual test is that it's not a competency test but a lucky packet dependent on whether you can pass the manoeuvres. A real test would need to be a lot longer and test a lot more aspects while allowing some failures for certain non critical ones. I can't see that happening with the current system that can't even handle all the new entrants let alone all the current road users every few years.

 

[Swa]

Yeah but that's all that is needed to pass the test, instead of going for a truck license because it skips one parking thing? Oh and the emergency stop forgot it doesn't do that either.

Light Motor Vehicles

• Alley docking to the left and right (2 attempts each).
• A three-point turn in the road (1 attempt).
• Parallel parking from the left and the right (2 attempts each).
• An incline start (1 attempt).

Heavy Motor Vehicles or Trailer

• Alley docking is to the right (2 attempts).
• A left turn (1 attempt).
• Parallel parking without a trailer from the left and the right (2 attempts each) code EB only.
• Revering in a straight line (1 attempt).
• An incline start (1 attempt).

So you skip parallel parking x2, alley docking to the left and three-point turn.

 

[Lupus]

Light Motor Vehicles

• Alley docking to the left and right (2 attempts each).
• A three-point turn in the road (1 attempt).
• Parallel parking from the left and the right (2 attempts each).
• An incline start (1 attempt).

Heavy Motor Vehicles or Trailer

• Alley docking is to the right (2 attempts).
• A left turn (1 attempt).
• Parallel parking without a trailer from the left and the right (2 attempts each) code EB only.
• Revering in a straight line (1 attempt).
• An incline start (1 attempt).

So you skip parallel parking x2, alley docking to the left and three-point turn.

Which aren't hard

 

[Knyro]

Yeah but that's all that is needed to pass the test, instead of going for a truck license because it skips one parking thing? Oh and the emergency stop forgot it doesn't do that either.

Afaik code 10 doesn't have the 3 point turn too?

Anyway I think the main reason is that a lot of young people talk each other out of it. "Oooh the code 8 is so hard! The truck is much easier! This guy failed it 5 times!" etc. So people get intimidated and go for the code 10.

Ironically that's one of the main reasons I ended up going for the code 8.

Pffft parallel parking you say? Challenge accepted.

 

[Swa]

Which aren't hard

It's a lucky packet. 4 possible points of failure removed. Also removes the need to do the EB so better in that regard.

 

[Düber]

Also removes the need to do the EB so better in that regard.

If I had the choice to do a car with a trailer test or a test with a driving school Dyna, The Dyna would win hands down! Remember these guys are using the smallest trucks possible, a Hyundai bakkie is harder to drive.