Kick The Door Down

Nice one Viko. We need to get him associated with Myadsl. I think he can help us, and we can help him.
I love what he says about Telkom, a real slap in the face!
Nice one Viko
 
Lissoos doesn’t believe that government, Icasa or Telkom will attempt to shut down Viko’s networks, as they are in isolated parts of the country and are there to help poor people.
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Rofl, just wait till liewe Lulu hears about this.
 
Case of Robbin Hood ?

I seriously think that:
<Q>The number of fixed-line subscribers has remained almost unchanged at below 5m since 1996, even though Telkom, in exchange for an extension of its monopoly, was mandated by government to install lines in underserviced areas.</Q>
is grounds for criminal prosecution.

Either governmint is criminally negligent, or teklom is criminally negligent, or both. When teklom refuse to unbundle the local loop stating their 7 year contractually garauntee'd monopoly as an excuse, we should lodge a civil case against them for breach of contract, and claim every cent of profit made back, cos teklom was not entitled to said profit, said profit was stolen from the country. :mad:
 
Firstly I've got nothing wrong with helping people out, And while part of me agree's with what he is doing, they other part cant but help think its wrong? Just as Stoke said.. a case of Robin Hood.. Is it ok to murder if its for the good of mankind, or steal for us because its the right thing to do. While this is a "grey" area of the law it still not right :confused:

Reason I feel this way specifically about this issue with the wireless, is that the more people litter our airways with illegal radio frequency's the more people end up destroying South Africa's chance for a successful SKA bid
 
The problem with the robbin hood thing is that I cannot go and startup a mesh/wifi thing, cos chances are that they'll close me down damn quickly, but some others can cos they have been damn lucky.

So it becomes an unfair playing field, with crap and uncertainty on every corner, where it should be clear and well defined. This slow retarded governmint sucks beeeeg time.
 
I agree Stoke... If one person can do it.. they why cant everyone? Stating that he is helping people out and we should leave him alone does not cut it, in my books. because then I can murder as well if i'm helping out poor people? whats the difference?

And in the end.. We could lose the SKA as currently that is our biggest problem to winning the bid. We have everything perfect to do it.. except clean regulated airways.. Going to be hard to try pick up a signal 4 galaxies away.. when you have some kiddies BF2 spam interfering with the reception:(
 
Kalvaer i hear you but cannot agree....you are using a slippery slope argument to basically equate providing wireless connectivity for educational purposes with murder

sure both may be against the law but in reality they are worlds apart - there is a huge difference; nor is this about mesh networks and kiddies playing games

it is difficult - if the SKA is your concern then
- why do we not have clean, unregulated airways?
- are we meant to sit back and wait for the lack of connectivity to rural areas and schools to come right when there is every indication that it will take many more years?
- is the SKA more important than providing decent education?

i in no way would advocate a free-for-all and unregulated use of the airwaves - the reality of the matter is however that where you have an inequitable and unenforceable prohibitive law then that is exactly what is going to happen

Viko is doing what he feels like he needs to do - who is he harming in doing so and, if he is, where does this harm stand in relationship to the benefit?
 
Dominic I was waiting for somebody to say that I cant compare murder to theft, or to illegal use of airways. My point is they are all illegal, is one more right than the other, Is it fair to say that one is less wrong because it was to help somebody else. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

If one person can set up illegal wireless, how long before Stoke does it, or I do it. Then when they try shut me down because I'm supplying to rich people and not poor people.. I point the finger to Viko. Then it goes to court and takes 4 years.. I'm smiling all the way to the bank during that time. Funny though, does that not sound simular to what telkom always does??? and we despise them for it? Dragging things out in court while the rich get richer and the poor get poorer???

I'm also completly for the idea of better education, As I originally stated I was torn in half with good feelings and bad. We have a problem in South Africa with illegal use of airways... That I agree on, this "grey" area BS where people bend the law for their own good is not right.

Though is making the problem worse any better?

The SKA will hopefully help the entire world, Yes it is also a long shot (pun intended) not just a few uneducated people in South Africa, It will also attract scientists and researchers from all over the world to our country and in turn increase funding for education, and scientific development... In ways that illegal wireless will never do in the 10 years it might take to get it done legally?

And well If we dont get it.. it goes to Australia.. What would you do?

EDIT: My comment at kiddies playing BF2 was a joke, it could well be 6000 kids surfing for their research projects at school, though the principle is the same
 
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Please compare apples to apples, you are talking about leaving a whole lot of people in the dark ages while in their OWN country one of the most complex scientific installations is constructed.

This does not make sense from a moral stand point.
 
Neio.. I just said above....what is the difference, is one more wrong than the other.. Maybe me comparing it to murder was a bit over board, though as I said in the last line.. the principle remains the same

Try read the first page of the SKA website as well

Southern African governments see the location of global astronomy infrastructure in our region as a way of promoting high technology investment and of ensuring that local scientists are able to participate in world class science. An important spin-off from projects such as SALT is the stimulation of the interest of the public, especially South Africa's youth, in science.
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There is more potential too for something like the SKA to increase funding and increase the educational level of rural area's than any amount of illegal wireless will every have, Losing something like the SKA could throw us deeper into the dark ages than we are already. We have a great oppertunity here that has come knocking on our door.. and what.. shall we slam that door in its face while trying to kick another door down?
 
It is only 'illegal' because of the Telecommunications Act which was written to protect Telkom. Telkom's monopoly period of protection has ended - so there should seemingly be no problem with wifi networks.

Personally I see anyone bemoaning wireless connections as being closed-minded. Nothing will ever happen, in any industry, anywhere, if people don't push the envelope. The wireless envelope shouldn't even need to have to be pushed, as the 'co communication without Telkom' clause was there for them and them only.

Times change and IMHO the telecommunications act isn't worthy of becoming a roll of toilet paper.
 
Mad I'm not bemoaning wireless.. I use it myself, I even know quiet a few friends who have their own wireless systems setup providing all their neighbours with internet connections at a fraction of the cost (while still making money out of it), And I was actually discussing this with them yesterday and they said unfortunatly its to late.. There is NO way they can see the goverment undoing what has been done in time and there is nobody to blame but them. However they can stop it from getting worse

My point was that unregulated wireless networks can be detrimental, There are many more problems than the SKA I mentioned. It was said that viko was providing free education to people. How can you compare better education for a few people in rural area's to a 1 Billion $US scientific installation. South Africa will never ever be able to set up a scientific training and education facility of this nature in the next 50 - 100 years.

Right now we have the opertunity to get it built for us for only 10% payable back over a 10 year period, Something that the Goverment has approved. Its a done deal if we get it. No waiting for laws, and telkom, and who knows what.. its an instant free education facility something that will increase the education levels in SA drastically more than free unregulated wireless?

What would you choose?
 
Kalvaer said:
My point was that unregulated wireless networks can be detrimental
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meh... yup.. but in this instance there was no choice so hes doing the right thing..
 
MaD said:
meh... yup.. but in this instance there was no choice so hes doing the right thing..
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LOL not wanting to bring up my murder scene again... but is it ok if I didn't have a choice.. He had a choice, he made the choice to ignore the law. If he is allowed to do it.. What is stoping every Tom, d1ck (or Richard since the forums block that out) and Harry from doing the same, and getting away with it because you cant fine one person for doing the same as somebody else.

Is Vico not paving the way for more people to go the same and so causing us to have an influx of unregulated wireless? Or what am I missing? By taking the law into thier own hands could we not loose the SKA bid (I still highly doubt we will lose it due to this since its already to bad, but making it worse is not better)

They might seem like the Robin Hood now doing a few of the poor in SA some good. But if Vico saving us 1 million rand and educating a few people, causes us to loose a chance to educate not only our nation but the whole world and 1 billion US$.....

EDIT I will again state though that I think what Vico is doing is a good thing.. I just think that there is more at stake here and sometimes that needs to be taken into consideration before one leaps into something
 
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The SKA is going to be fully operational in what - 2020? By that time the airwaves are going to be a lot more cluttered than they are now and I think that is pretty much unavoidable.

For all we know one of the kids Vico is helping to educate today will be a MoC of tomorrow - one who actually appreciates the value of the internet.
 
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