Looking For Vehicle Tracking Units:

[kronoSX]

Sorry that i did not respond to your posts as i was busy with other things,I am the technical advisor for (a )tracking company,Sorry for that .
What is the urban legends your people are talking about,phone jammers and othere shyt.
aaa..i vremember when people would say that if you cover your car infoil no one can track it.Bullshyt.
I to remember when thief's said that if they switch the battery terminals around,a tracking device will blow or don't work.bullshyte
I remember when people would say that if you take a welding rod and earth the vehicle with it the tracking device will fry or burnout,bullshyte
I will say it again ,most of what you hear is not always true .There are many urban legends,Dont fall in the trap and believe all of them.Some are true but as you know i cannot say.pm me if you want real technical advice

 

[captainwifi]

1. What is the urban legends your people are talking about,phone jammers
2. cover your car infoil no one can track it.
3. switch the battery terminals around,a tracking device will blow
4. welding rod and earth the vehicle with it
5. Dont fall in the trap and believe all of them.Some are true but as you know i

1. Yes, go to their site. GSM uses spread spectrum frequency hopping. the marines in Iraq jammed the insurgetns Nokia 5110 rigged to IED's.
2. You are refering to a Farraday cage. I they hijack the car and drive it into
a big truck that is tinfoiled from the inside then no radio signal will enter or
exit - it is a law of physics.
3. No, it wont blow because it is protected by a DIODE.
4. No, protected by TVS - Transient voltage suppressors and has it's own
battery backup. if you are stupid enough to fry all the cars electronics the unit will just send a panic signal. A crook will never do this.
5. Be specific and motivate you assertions. It will also help your credibility if you won't use cuss words. It only makes you come across as uncertain and
exasperated.

 

[kronoSX]

1. Yes, go to their site. GSM uses spread spectrum frequency hopping. the marines in Iraq jammed the insurgetns Nokia 5110 rigged to IED's.
2. You are refering to a Farraday cage. I they hijack the car and drive it into
a big truck that is tinfoiled from the inside then no radio signal will enter or
exit - it is a law of physics.
3. No, it wont blow because it is protected by a DIODE.
4. No, protected by TVS - Transient voltage suppressors and has it's own
battery backup. if you are stupid enough to fry all the cars electronics the unit will just send a panic signal. A crook will never do this.
5. Be specific and motivate you assertions. It will also help your credibility if you won't use cuss words. It only makes you come across as uncertain and
exasperated.

i know what you are saying,and i did say that some urban legend are true.
And you so delicately put all the facts in its place,So you cannot be wrong .
You have proven that the urban legends are true to some extent.So there is nothing more i can say,that you already said.
Thanks again for clearing that up.I will be watching this thread from now on and maybe i to can learn something...you cant teach an old dog new tricks
but you can trick him into believing he can.

 

[a4fun]

Jammer

You don't understand the technology. You can buy a phone jamme from
http://www.phonejammer.com for R400. You push the button and all your
GPRS/GSM tracking devices goes "poof". I have explained counter measures
elsewhere. You must, must use a http://www.roundsolutions.com modem.
The modem detects the phonejammer signal then pulls in a relay. The relay connects to http://www.netstar.co.za Netstar gets a panic signal they http
into your home PC to get your LAST GPS COORDINATES. They send out the
marines and catch the phone jammer hijacker.

Anything that works on a radio frequency can be jammed. This is not unique to GSM only. I still do not understand how the "roundsolutions" option can connect to anything if it is also jammed and cannot transmit

 

[a4fun]

I have been involved in developing tracking systems for the past 12 years. Here is my advice. All systems have an Achillies Heel of some sort. The Tracking Companies specialising in the latest technological solutions are the closest in resolving these issues through innovative methodologies and thought processes. I would suggest that you first evaluate your SPECIFIC RISKS AND NEEDS and then find the company that offers the best solution to these unique requirements. It may mean that you will have to sit through some demonstrations. Should you do this, here are some pointers. Don't let them only demonstrate through a power point demonstration. Don't let them demonstrate only one vehicle (some systems work gr8t with low volumes but fall over on large volumes). Look for a "Live" system that is online all the time (delays in activating "Passive" systems may cost you. Look for a system that offers a high update rate. Find a system that you also have acces to the information. Validate the integrity of the company and its service levels by contacting existing clientele. Also validate your required services with these clientele. Last but not least, validate the company and its products with VESA. They do annual audits and product validation on tracking companies and other vehicle security products.

 

[captainwifi]

Anything that works on a radio frequency can be jammed. This is not unique to GSM only. I still do not understand how the "roundsolutions" option can connect to anything if it is also jammed and cannot transmit

The roundsmodem detects a jamming attempt in contrast to a celltower that died. If there is no GSM signal at all it won't pull in it's relay. The modem is
not trasmitting to anything - afterall the GMS frequency is jammed. It just
detects this jamming pulling in it's relay. No GSM communication is possible, either GPRS or SMS if a http://www.phonejammer.com is used.

I find it difficult to believe you were involved with tracking systems for 12years. The questions you are asking me is what a person would ask who doesn't know how to switch on a PC .....
------
The Tracking Companies specialising in the latest technological solutions are the closest in resolving these issues through innovative methodologies and thought processes.
------
No, they are not. Its GPRS and SMS there is nothing mystical about it.


-----------
I would suggest that you first evaluate your SPECIFIC RISKS AND NEEDS and then find the company that offers the best solution to these unique requirements.
------------
Again Orbtech GPRS and Nestar GPRS if they use MTN is basically the same thing.
----
It may mean that you will have to sit through some demonstrations.
--------
Not a bad idea. You would specifically need to ask them how they would deal with a spectrum jamming attempt.

 

[kronoSX]

`Netstar systems-the early warning--rf based and no gsm+sign post readings
netstar system sleuth--no gsm but rf land based with no signpost readings
netstar cybersleuth--gsm and rf based and sign posts
netstar vigil----------gsm(mtn)rf(line of site)+gps(tracking realtime up to 3 satellites)pinpoint location via netsar server through your pc
netstar cybersleuth also track through pc (direct)
So the only system that i think will have a problam will be the cyber sleuth gsm.
but the rf can then track the system,dont you think..



tracker system--rf
cartrack------rf and gsm

 

[a4fun]

It is obvious from your insulting tone that you cannot explain the advantage of having a "roundsolutions" option embedded in the unit (at an additional cost to the client most probably). Should sound design criterias be applied, you should be able to detect a unit not updating within seconds. A simplistic interrogation (at no cost to the client) of the network can reveal if a network/tower problem exists or not (and flagged if neccessary). After being able to switch on a PC this process can be automated through some innovative methodologies and thought processes which only comes after years of experience in creating solutions and not buying solutions.

It is interesting that RF jammers were the first to hit the market, yet you neglect to mention that this also poses a problem.

You are right - there is nothing mystical about GPRS/SMS or any RF based transmission for that matter - for therein alone you will not find the solution. It is what is behind it that makes the difference.

Therefore my suggestion that whoever is interested in a tracking system does a careful analysis of his needs and seeks a solution - which for the record may mean that he/she may have to select more than one product to resolve his/her issues if this is neccessary.

Oh, and as a matter of interest, independent audits performed and verified by insurance actuaries, has indicated that the highest recovery rates are attained by the "new generation" tracking systems. Makes you think doesn't it?

 

[-toady-]

No idea if the following is of any interest and have a dead scanner so will attempt to type some of it for you....

From the Natal Mercury Tuesday 20th February 2007 page 7

New SA tracking system discussed


Pretoria: Ways of developing a South African invention called "radio frequency identification" (RIFD) were discussed at the Tshwane University of Technology yesterday.
RFID is a technology that uses michrochips to tag objects so they can be identified and tracked at any time and anywhere.

The tags can be placed or incorporated into a product, animal or person, who or which can then be identified using radio waves.

"This is powerful technology. It is an opportunity to be able to track and trace any piece of equipment, eg a cellphone at any given time," said the Deputy Vice-Chancellor of Research at TUT, Prins Nevhautalu.

uhoh.... okay ive run out of steam its just tooo darned hot down here in Durban and it probably isnt even relevant.... heh...


toady

 

[Syndyre]

AFAIK the range for RFID is at best a few metres.

 

[Leitmotif]

RFID is best for inventory tracking and tracking smaller objects in controlled areas.

 

[-toady-]

RFID is best for inventory tracking and tracking smaller objects in controlled areas.

thanks for enlightening me

 

[intogadgets]

Hi Gents

have we decided who the tracking company is that offers the best solution...

 

[Syndyre]

Seems to be Netstar.

 

[recoverer]

recovery

I have been a recovery agent for a wile now and are experienced in recovery of a lot of different products/unit on the SA market today, here is my views.

1. A gps unit is n gps unit if you do get a signal lat and long you will recover the vehicle, the problem is the unit itself, crooks know what to look for and deactivate it, the hiding of the unit is not the problem it is the pgs antenna . A big plus you can recover a moving vehicle easily as you know exactly were it is at all time, real time. Gps units are usually very expensive. Can be recovered if the vehicle is indoors. Only metal blocks the gps units view from the satellites. I have recovered many of them wile parked indoors.

2. Tracker is a good unit as it is very cost efficient to the owner. Saps are used to track this unit and Tracker also has committed ground teams to do the recoveries. This unit takes very long to recover, updated info from their control room is very slow; the search area is too big for a single recovery team to search and find in a small timeframe. There recovery stats are good though as they have a lot of recovery teams (SAPS) provided the vehicle is hiding in a large city.

3. Matrix very much the same as a tracker unit except that the search area is much smaller. One recovery unit can recover the vehicle in no time providing the unit transmits its radio frequency as it is supposed to. Search areas are from the sell phone tower outwards and the updates of the search areas a prone to be plus mines 15 min later than actual times making it to slow. It is merely impossible to recover a vehicle driving around inside a city center, you have to wait for the vehicle to stop someware for a wile to recover it. I find that they need regular testing of the activated unit to see if it still transmits its radio frequency. Recovery rate is very good.
4. My favorite, the ets mtrack, Super reliable small search area strong radio frequency also difficult to recover a moving unit and very accurate. I have never failed to recover on of those. Self contained battery with a life of 1 year plus, relatively cheap small a great asset tracking unit

I have no experience with the netstar unit so I can’t comment.

The jamming theory is bullshyte what the crooks do most of the time is park the stolen vehicle some ware leave it for a day or two and see if it is recovered. This way they know if the vehicle is fitted with a tracking unit. Arrest of the suspects is very rare.

The technical areas of the units are not my expertise I only do the recoveries. Around 10 years in the business.

Mail me with any questions. Ps I will not tell who I work for

 

[Syndyre]

So tracker mainly use SAPS?

 

[recoverer]

No, tracker does have dedicated ground teams that handle the recoveries in all major centers. These are people employed by tracker and are not saps members (mostly ex policemen) they also deploy in all recovery instances. Tracker does not have recovery hardware fitted to all saps vehicles and have to do their own recoveries in for instance a small rural town were the saps vehicles are not fitted with recovery hardware.

If a vehicle is recovered by the saps the tracker personal usually also go to the vehicle to asses the condition of the recovered vehicle and submit a full report to the main control room

 

[chrisv]

TRACKER NETSTAR MATRIX - Check this one!

TRACKER , NETSTAR , MATRIX , C-TRACK - BANDIT all a BIG LIE - money scam !!

If u discover vehicle stolen later >30min => too late - system already removed. EWCop THEFT STOPPER phones you immediately! Also protect goods inside vehicel. Go visit www.ewcop.com

Also, they CAN NOT immobilise a vehicle - if thief keeps moving they shall never catch up - over the borders and gone!

check it out www.ewcop.com

eWCOP Theft Stopper offers great HIJACK features - recovery - vehicle control. I got one two weeks ago for my new discovery 3 - throwing out all my other NETSTAR in wife and kids cars - OUT they go!

Advanced tracking systems with GPS systems are NO GOOD for SECURITY. Very faint signal from satelite and very very quick to find GPS antenna and cut!

I am happy with EWCop system - so try it!

 

[chrisv]

EWCop vs TRACKER & NETSTAR

Mr Recovery

GPS signals are very weak - for security applicatons GPS technology is NOT recommended. Thieves remove the GPS antenna within 1 minute! GPS antenna are always mounted high - and is easily detected by thiefs and then removed! So, GPS is NOT recommended for security applications!

Latest theft techniques include hijacking and here TRACKER has a very bad track record - they offer no anti-hijakcing technologies, with most vehicles never recovered!

If the driver gets killed and family inform TRACKER / NETSTART after 1 hour - it is too late. The driver is dead and the vehicle and thiefs are gone! TRACKER and NESTAR and others can not even immobilise the vehicle!?

TRACKER & NETSTAR should all be banned! How can they collect monthly subscription if they offer no gauranteed recovery or personal protection. EWCop offers anti-hijack technology & immediate recovery & tracking at the imemdiately before theft hijakcing occurs !!

Why use Tracker/Netstar - I believe their technology is too dated to offer any reliable means of security! With hijackings lifes are at stake! - Simple by and EWCop system! This offers immediate notification and focusses on hijackings! I lost my Hilux to theft and relied on a TRACKER - with EWCop I am immediately informed! visit their website at ewcop.com.

Why buy TRACKER / NESTAR / MATRIX / C-TRACK if u can get an EWCop system at a cheaper price !!


The public must evaluate all options before installing a TRACKER / NETSTAR. It seems that some F&I /Brokers are bribed to sell these useless systems!


Good luck finding your vehicles fitted with a TRACKER. Since you can NOT immobilise them - they are a moving target!

 

[recoverer]

Hi Mr Chrisv

Hi Mr Chrisv

To answer some of your questions and correct you in some instances.

A Gps tracker. Yes most of them do have a panic button, vehicle immobilization, report and more function. I don’t know were you got your info. Gps is mostly used in fleet management iow. to report on over speed, over revving, harsh driving, oil temp/level and more so why would you not have immobilization. They all report on ignition on/of. Some private companies immobilize the vehicles during certain times of night so insure the drivers do sleep and not drive all night. A gps antenna is smaller than a box of matches and can be installed anyware inside the vehicle. I have tested a gps tracker extensively. The antenna is very sensitive. To give you an example I have mine, a personal tracker not associated with any company installed underneath my vehicle with the GPS antenna on top of my petrol tank and it works like a charm. I did up to now did not find a place in on or underneath my car that it doesn’t work so very weak signal????
Most gps hardware are no bigger than a 30’s pack of cigarettes with some of them (example Orchid) with the GPS antenna internal.
I’ll make you a deal. I’ll hide one of my unit inside my car. I'll give you an hour head start to run and hide before I come to recover you. If you find the unit b4 I find you, you can have my unit.
It is only recommended that you install the antenna high, but my experience tell me different.

Tracker is an excellent system and the recovery stats tell a different story as you. The same with Netstar, Matrix, Ctrack as GSM trackers. I am a “recoverer” as you know and I recover almost all vehicles I set out to find. Sure hardware can fail as every manmade product ever build.

About you product. It has been on the marker for years already called a SMS commander. You can buy it from any good computer shop countrywide. You can hook any electronic devise to it and remotely control that device. It is must I say a brilliant idea to hook the system onto a car for remote commanding a vehicle Check out this link http://www.home.telkomsa.net/ComPic/CellSnitch02.htm Farmers have been using them for years to control irrigation. CCTV, Alarms, Security locks any device you can think of can be controlled by them. You can install one in you home to control you washing machine, coffee maker, alarm, aircon ex, you can run a whole household on this devise. All your company did is hook it up to a car to control security beams, fuel pump/ignition/horn and all the other functions it provide. I’m sure if you ask they will be able to switch on you fm radio or aircon or streetpilot or even remotely operate your disco 3’s winch. With this device and a little electronic know-how you can build the same unit and control it yourself. What they also did is use it with a vodacom simmcard so you can subscribe to look4me and “Track” your smscommander. Have you tried look4me before it is very inaccurate? Pleas try it right now with your wife’s phone and see how inaccurate it is. I have tested it for a wile and unsubscribed my, conclusion USELESS in a tracking environment.

Now if you hook an Optional Transponder (tag) or Optional RF Beacon to it you can get a search area from the look4me website and send a recovery team to the area with the rf receiver to recover your vehicle, sounds familiar because that is how all the tracking units Netstar Tracker Matrix C-Tracks work. You can add the new EW cop to the list of “should all be banned” products only that the EW Cop have a lot more Clutter that can Fail on you.

Who is doing the recovery for this unit? Most Tracking companies employ a network of recovery agents countrywide (Netstar, Tracker, Matrix) to do the recoveries or contracts one of the three countrywide vehicle recovery companies, Capital air, Rentrac and ITA Group. If you do not have one of these teams on your side I don’t see you recovering your vehicle in any other part in SA say Vreiheid in KZN.

If you press your panic button during a hijack do you thing you will not get shot or the recovery team will be with you in a second to save your live. All that happens is that your control room will know that you are in trouble. Were do you get your info I know for a fact Matrix and Netstar can have an optional panic button. Don’t Get me wrong I do think that EW cop is n Brilliant Product if it is working as it is advertised. It will be competition to other companies raising the competitiveness and service and dropping the prices. I am a strong believer in clean competition

Rather than insulting tracking companies inform them of the problems so they can better their service.

I am not going to favor a specific tracking company but in my years recovering different units there is one I have never failed to recover and I recover between 3 and 5 of them month.


PS it is illegal to immobilize a vehicle if it is moving even if is driven by the thieve; According to the criminal act you are endangering his live if you do so.