Manual vs Automatic

Rickster said:
Autos are nice but once they break you going to wish you bought a manual.

Especially the dual clutch ones, your wallet is going to start to cry with you.
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yup this

when the auto box breaks or needs maintenance/repair, then lets have this discussion again
 
Mechatronics failures are common on the VAG shitbox DSG transmissions while the clutches on the Ford's Powershit transmission are prone to failure.

The Koreans do seem to good dual clutch transmissions but nothing comes close to a proper automatic. For me though, I still love my 6 speed manual.
 
I am on my second automatic car after moving from my DSG Golf to torque converter Touareg and for everyday driving I won't go back to a manual but my next weekend/project car will definitely be a manual.

Rouxenator said:
Mechatronics failures are common on the VAG shitbox DSG transmissions while the clutches on the Ford's Powershit transmission are prone to failure.

The Koreans do seem to good dual clutch transmissions but nothing comes close to a proper automatic. For me though, I still love my 6 speed manual.
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Mechatronics failures have lessened in the last few years but DSG gearboxes are not the only ones to use the system, the torque converter box fitted to Amarok's uses mechatronics as well from what I remember. All this talk of automatic gearboxes reminds me, there are quite a few types of automatic gearboxes despite all of them changing gears automatically.
 
Neuk_ said:
I am on my second automatic car after moving from my DSG Golf to torque converter Touareg and for everyday driving I won't go back to a manual but my next weekend/project car will definitely be a manual.



Mechatronics failures have lessened in the last few years but DSG gearboxes are not the only ones to use the system, the torque converter box fitted to Amarok's uses mechatronics as well from what I remember. All this talk of automatic gearboxes reminds me, there are quite a few types of automatic gearboxes despite all of them changing gears automatically.
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I wish people would stop calling DSG's automatic.

It's not an automatic at all.

It's a manual with an electronic clutch.
 
SauRoNZA said:
I wish people would stop calling DSG's automatic.

It's not an automatic at all.

It's a manual with an electronic clutch.
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I just refer to it as a manual with a robot doing all the hard work better than I could.

My only gripe is downshifting...
I definitely feel like I could do that better.
 
PsYTraNc3 said:
I just refer to it as a manual with a robot doing all the hard work better than I could.

My only gripe is downshifting...
I definitely feel like I could do that better.
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I don’t know hey getting that rev matching right while braking is a special talent.

Unless by better you meant more comfortably.
 
SauRoNZA said:
I don’t know hey getting that rev matching right while braking is a special talent.

Unless by better you meant more comfortably.
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When in sports mode, it downshifts and matches the revs perfectly but is way too rough for daily driving or in traffic.

When approaching a bend, speed bump or slowing down in general, I know when I am going to accelerate and what gear I need to be in and can prepare for that in a manual car.
With DSG in normal (auto) or comfort mode, it downshifts when you hit the accelerator and that process gets to me a bit.
 
Auto are very awesome in rush hour traffic. Very relaxing drive.
Auto's are a little more expensive when you buy. They are hell expensive when you need to start replacing things.
DSG boxes is a maintenance item and have to be replaces as they wear. around 80k to replace.

the newer auto's have very close tolerances and need adjustment and software updates. Out of maintenance this becomes stupid expensive. Modern auto's also seem to get slower on shifts as they age. they also become very indecisive when you drive hard as they don't know which gear to select or prevent you from paddling to the gear you want. On the track autos get quite hot'. Car like the focus rs uses a cooler and still start over heating drive train when pushed a few laps .

Auto is perfect for luxury cars doing ruch hour commute.

For a drivers car manual still best in cost and vehicle control. not the best in rush hour unless you don't mind.

All my personal opinion based on personal experience in limited amount of cars.
 
SauRoNZA said:
I wish people would stop calling DSG's automatic.

It's not an automatic at all.

It's a manual with an electronic clutch.
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It's automatic in that it is capable of shifting gears automatically but besides having two sets of gears and a clutch pack it is very similar in setup and operation to a traditional manual gearbox, BMW's old SMG is closer to a automated version of a traditional manual gearbox than a DSG. One of the main issues with almost any twin clutch gearbox is that people treat them like more traditional torque converter automatic gearboxes which often leads to premature clutch pack wear. I enjoyed the DSG in my Golf when in Sports or Race mode but the automatic in my Touareg is far better suited to sedate stop/start daily driving in traffic.
 
qscwbt said:
Auto are very awesome in rush hour traffic. Very relaxing drive.
Auto's are a little more expensive when you buy. They are hell expensive when you need to start replacing things.
DSG boxes is a maintenance item and have to be replaces as they wear. around 80k to replace.

the newer auto's have very close tolerances and need adjustment and software updates. Out of maintenance this becomes stupid expensive. Modern auto's also seem to get slower on shifts as they age. they also become very indecisive when you drive hard as they don't know which gear to select or prevent you from paddling to the gear you want. On the track autos get quite hot'. Car like the focus rs uses a cooler and still start over heating drive train when pushed a few laps .

Auto is perfect for luxury cars doing ruch hour commute.

For a drivers car manual still best in cost and vehicle control. not the best in rush hour unless you don't mind.

All my personal opinion based on personal experience in limited amount of cars.
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What auto's are you talking about? A torque converter box is very different from a twin clutch is very different from a CVT, etc, etc.
 
PsYTraNc3 said:
When in sports mode, it downshifts and matches the revs perfectly but is way too rough for daily driving or in traffic.

When approaching a bend, speed bump or slowing down in general, I know when I am going to accelerate and what gear I need to be in and can prepare for that in a manual car.
With DSG in normal (auto) or comfort mode, it downshifts when you hit the accelerator and that process gets to me a bit.
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Yeah I figured you were referring to comfort rather than properly better.

When I’m driving a piece of road which I know well and in a spirited fashion that’s when the paddles come in handy and I can force it to a given gear, otherwise use if the dynamic mode it’s trickier to control your speed.

I don’t recall it ever downshifting when you hit the accelerator normally only when you plant it and as such I anticipate it so that never bothers me.
 
Neuk_ said:
It's automatic in that it is capable of shifting gears automatically but besides having two sets of gears and a clutch pack it is very similar in setup and operation to a traditional manual gearbox, BMW's old SMG is closer to a automated version of a traditional manual gearbox than a DSG. One of the main issues with almost any twin clutch gearbox is that people treat them like more traditional torque converter automatic gearboxes which often leads to premature clutch pack wear. I enjoyed the DSG in my Golf when in Sports or Race mode but the automatic in my Touareg is far better suited to sedate stop/start daily driving in traffic.
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Exactly this.

Which is why we need new works and/or better descriptions.

Most people either dislike DCT without trying it because it an “automatic” and they think torque converter, or as you say they are none the wiser and treat it the same.

I will admit mostly torque converter is more comfortable and hence it matches that kind of car better. It would be rubbish in a Golf.
 
qscwbt said:
Auto are very awesome in rush hour traffic. Very relaxing drive.
Auto's are a little more expensive when you buy. They are hell expensive when you need to start replacing things.
DSG boxes is a maintenance item and have to be replaces as they wear. around 80k to replace.

the newer auto's have very close tolerances and need adjustment and software updates. Out of maintenance this becomes stupid expensive. Modern auto's also seem to get slower on shifts as they age. they also become very indecisive when you drive hard as they don't know which gear to select or prevent you from paddling to the gear you want. On the track autos get quite hot'. Car like the focus rs uses a cooler and still start over heating drive train when pushed a few laps .

Auto is perfect for luxury cars doing ruch hour commute.

For a drivers car manual still best in cost and vehicle control. not the best in rush hour unless you don't mind.

All my personal opinion based on personal experience in limited amount of cars.
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So many different points of bullshit and nonsense in this post it’s not even worth responding to each one.

Thankfully it’s clearly stated as personal opinion at the end.

They aren’t maintenance items, they never need full replacement and they mostly don’t need any replacement of anything at all, those are just had units.

They don’t need adjustments either.

They also don’t get slower on shifts with age...I put 200,000km on a DSG and it shifts like any new one.

But ultimately as we’ve stated already the term automatic is way too broad because and automatic isn’t a dual clutch isn’t a CVT.
 
SauRoNZA said:
So many different points of bullshit and nonsense in this post it’s not even worth responding to each one.

Thankfully it’s clearly stated as personal opinion at the end.

They aren’t maintenance items, they never need full replacement and they mostly don’t need any replacement of anything at all, those are just had units.

They don’t need adjustments either.

They also don’t get slower on shifts with age...I put 200,000km on a DSG and it shifts like any new one.

But ultimately as we’ve stated already the term automatic is way too broad because and automatic isn’t a dual clutch isn’t a CVT.
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Sorry old wise one for having a different opinion to you. I have driven from the old th350 turbo auto trans in a 427 chev v8, corona auto, too more modern audi dsg, golf dsg q3 dsg tdi, jazz cvt, impreza cvt. And currently do have a dsg in the garage and 2 manual cars.

My mates polo costed 80 k on dsg pack and megatronics box at only 70 000km. Mates golf dsg had laggy shifts and needed software upgrades to fix. Apparently as the clutches wear the computer need to be adjusted to this wear. Driving it on a track and the shifts gets worse as it gets warmer.

Quite simple :Manual has 3 pedals I step on clutch and change gears.
Auto: only 2 pedals no clutch and a computer that decide when to change gears. Even if I use paddles to shift the computer can still override your selection.

If your lasted 200 000 km good for you. Will be happy not pay the bill on any auto / dsg / cvt to repair.
 
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