Manual vs Automatic

Geoff.D said:
Now you are just being an idiot.
But to answer your question, IF it was an old beetle with a SU carb, I would have long ago seen to it that the performance was optimised to the point of shaping the needle for optimal performance at all revs.

And yes there IS once again quite a bit of "evidence" around suggesting that the fancy computer-controlled LOWER POWERED cars hardly benefit at all from those electronic measures.
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What electronic measures are you referring to that 'lower' power cars hardly benefit from?
 
Geoff.D said:
Who is racing? The fancy oke in his blik met wiele is! I don't have to race. My goal is to travel within the speed limits at a constant moving average speed and get to my destination safely. I have nothing to prove.
And making assumptions again about what I drive! BMW drivers are known for having some or other superiority complex.
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If my moms 1.5l petrol EcoSport with it's crappy auto can downshift to go up the steep section of Solomon Mahlangu Dr (between Garsfontein Rd and January Masilela Dr) at the required speed, then surely a BMW with a much better gearbox can do the same.

How do you know it was a auto BMW and not a manual that your encounter was with?
 
supersunbird said:
If my moms 1.5l petrol EcoSport with it's crappy auto can downshift to go up the steep section of Solomon Mahlangu Dr (between Garsfontein Rd and January Masilela Dr) at the required speed, then surely a BMW with a much better gearbox can do the same.

How do you know it was a auto BMW and not a manual that your encounter was with?
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Only the hands of a competent driver. And yes what "saves" those cars is the availability of power ( the BMW)
And why do you say crappy ecosport? And how does it do? Straining every component in the gearbox to its limits?

Because I can and do know how to ID what type of cars are on the road.

No amount of automation can ever make up for poor driver ability - a lesson Boeing is now learning, see the latest on the MAX 737 fiasco, which is another classic example of failed automation.

All the pilots managed to get themselves out of trouble but more than half responded with the wrong procedures
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And that is the same with automated cars. Drivers need to be trained on how to drive them, especially the lower-powered ones.


/edit: The ecosport commentaries (even the new 2020 models) are littered words such as :

"The sluggish response, poor acceleration, poor fuel economy, gearbox straining to downshift" ......
exactly proves my entire case about automatics.
 
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Geoff.D said:
Only the hands of a competent driver. And yes what "saves" those cars is the availability of power ( the BMW)
And why do you say crappy ecosport? And how does it do? Straining every component in the gearbox to its limits?

Because I can and do know how to ID what type of cars are on the road.

No amount of automation can ever make up for poor driver ability - a lesson Boeing is now learning, see the latest on the MAX 737 fiasco, which is another classic example of failed automation.



And that is the same with automated cars. Drivers need to be trained on how to drive them, especially the lower-powered ones.
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Please note I said crappy auto, not crappy Ecosport, please confirm understanding.

It's one of these low power autos you keep going on about, it's naturally aspirated.

Are you saying the driver of the BMW forced the car to stay in too high a gear and kept the accelerator pedal forced down, and didn't allow the auto to downgear by overriding it somehow?
 
supersunbird said:
Please note I said crappy auto, not crappy Ecosport, please confirm understanding.

It's one of these low power autos you keep going on about, it's naturally aspirated.

Are you saying the driver of the BMW forced the car to stay in too high a gear and kept the accelerator pedal forced down, and didn't allow the auto to downgear by overriding it somehow?
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How do I know what he did? but yes, he sure managed to do something to prevent the car from overriding his stupidity, or he just sat there watching the car failing to downshift sooner. All know is he had a complete lane to himself, more than 1,5 km of space to overtake and he could not do that.

No I understood the crappy comment. The ecosport is a classic example of a vehicle that should not be supplied with a auto transmission.
 
Geoff.D said:
How do I know what he did? but yes, he sure managed to do something to prevent the car from overriding his stupidity, or he just sat there watching the car failing to downshift sooner. All know is he had a complete lane to himself, more than 1,5 km of space to overtake and he could not do that.
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Maybe he didn't want to overtake, you get aholes like that.
 
Geoff.D said:
No amount of automation can ever make up for poor driver ability - a lesson Boeing is now learning, see the latest on the MAX 737 fiasco, which is another classic example of failed automation.
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The MAX 737 fiasco is a lot more complicated than simply the failure of or poor implementation of an automated control system.
 
Geoff.D said:
How do I know what he did? but yes, he sure managed to do something to prevent the car from overriding his stupidity, or he just sat there watching the car failing to downshift sooner. All know is he had a complete lane to himself, more than 1,5 km of space to overtake and he could not do that.

No I understood the crappy comment. The ecosport is a classic example of a vehicle that should not be supplied with a auto transmission.
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You must be the most miserable person on our highways...
The typical impatient-getthefarkoutamyway-type who think they own the roads...
Meh.
 
Geoff.D said:
Oh he wanted to, based on his behaviour before reaching that hill, passing trucks in the face of oncoming traffic etc.
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Clearly he just wanted to piss you off in your big Land Rover with its 4 speed 19voetsak old gearbox that can't even go down hill nicely.
 
Neuk_ said:
The MAX 737 fiasco is a lot more complicated than simply the failure of or poor implementation of an automated control system.
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Agreed. But the parallels with poorly implemented vehicle automation are there nonetheless.

Our competitors are achieving better fuel economy - lets fit a bigger engine, oh hell, now the aerodynamics are affected, no problem fit a powerful trim control, - oh hell, pilots won't be able to control the aircraft, no problem we will install a computer-controlled system to do the work for him - but we better not tell the pilots w=how it works, otherwise he may mess around with it......

Our small cars are not achieving good fuel economy, no problem we will fit a scaled-down auto box, oh hell, this thing does not behave all that well, no problem we will fit fancy computer-controlled system to get it to downshift when required .... oh hell the box is now failing ...... so what, we will just tell the customer that the box will have to be replaced every 100 000 km. ......., and we better just tell the drivers "it is an Automatic" -- they are stupid enough to believe it is going to perform like the high powered autos --- tuff if he damages his gearbox, we warned him that it needs major maintenance every 100 000 km. .....
 
Mind pointing out which small cars with auto boxes require major maintenance on the box every 100000kms?
 
Geoff.D said:
Agreed. But the parallels with poorly implemented vehicle automation are there nonetheless.

Our competitors are achieving better fuel economy - lets fit a bigger engine, oh hell, now the aerodynamics are affected, no problem fit a powerful trim control, - oh hell, pilots won't be able to control the aircraft, no problem we will install a computer-controlled system to do the work for him - but we better not tell the pilots w=how it works, otherwise he may mess around with it......

Our small cars are not achieving good fuel economy, no problem we will fit a scaled-down auto box, oh hell, this thing does not behave all that well, no problem we will fit fancy computer-controlled system to get it to downshift when required .... oh hell the box is now failing ...... so what, we will just tell the customer that the box will have to be replaced every 100 000 km. ......., and we better just tell the drivers "it is an Automatic" -- they are stupid enough to believe it is going to perform like the high powered autos --- tuff if he damages his gearbox, we warned him that it needs major mainatence every 100 000 km.
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I don't see it this way at all, I still question your 'major maintenance every 100k km' statement for automatic gearboxes. I do agree with the lack of general knowledge around cars and proper driving technique these days but that is not gearbox specific at all. The number of stories I hear of people not doing even just basic services or riding clutches in traffic or not doing basic checks is almost endless.
 
prOd said:
Careful now...
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Nah, the newer Land Rovers are awesome.... I just question the sanity of anyone who would use a 70's LR as a daily driver and then think they can talk about cars at all. They enjoy punishing themselves with the shytest motoring experience so their judgement is beyond questionable.
 
Geoff.D said:
The classic example is that long uphill stretch just before Colesberg, which is fortunately now a double lane. Me in my 4 x 4, pulls over to the left, changes gears smoothly and maintains his speed up that hill with ease. Along comes that flashy BMW automatic, who tries to pass and just sits there struggling to keep up, pushing the gas pedal through the floorboards wondering why he can't pass me!
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I think your imagination is running away with you. First it was folks feet getting tired resting on a brake pedal; now it's a BMW automatic that is "struggling" to keep up with you at 90km/h on a hill.

Have you ever driven a BMW with a ZF gearbox?
 
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