Massive cash injection for Cell C

[Haldex]

Asked whether the cash injection would help Cell C fix the network problems users have been reporting,
Knott-Craig said, “Yes. Without investment we can’t address them.”

Bailout?

 

[supersunbird]

Asked whether the cash injection would help Cell C fix the network problems users have been reporting,
Knott-Craig said, “Yes. Without investment we can’t address them.”

Bailout?

:erm:

Bail outs are only a worry if its with tax payer money. You only have the right to moan if you are a Oger Telecoms shareholder in this instance and feel its a waste of money that should have been used for something else. I doubt you are.

 

[Paul Hjul]

I think somebody needs to bail out Haldex

 

[Haldex]

It just looks unsustainable to me.

 

[Haldex]

I think somebody needs to bail out Haldex

ill bail myself out of this thread.
Till the next bail out/cash injection thread...

 

[Bern]

Another bail out, they worse than Telkom!

Wow you have no handle on economics at all. Oger invests to increase capacity to allow for more users since they have seen MASSIVE growth. Banks don't do bailouts, this is how they make their money and Cell C have no gov guarantee behind them. Now if Cell C made a huge loss and could not cover costs, then you can claim a bailout, but to improve and expand infrastructure - really?

Cell C are basically getting money due to capitalise on growth beyond expectation. Hence a savy investment for Oger and the banks. That hardly complies with the generally understood definition of a bailout.

note made, never ask you for any business or investment advice EVER.

 

[Haldex]

Wow you have no handle on economics at all. Oger invests to increase capacity to allow for more users since they have seen MASSIVE growth. Banks don't do bailouts, this is how they make their money and Cell C have no gov guarantee behind them. Now if Cell C made a huge loss and could not cover costs, then you can claim a bailout, but to improve and expand infrastructure - really?

Cell C are basically getting money due to capitalise on growth beyond expectation. Hence a savy investment for Oger and the banks. That hardly complies with the generally understood definition of a bailout.

note made, never ask you for any business or investment advice EVER.

Sigh. As a company, a telecoms company roi is built into tariffs and infrastructure. If you cannot yield profits from your product you stagnant. If I recall their growth stats and forecasts are below what was projected, their growth did not just creep up on them. Surely mr akc with all his knowledge should have understood this and forecasted this? It's part and parcel of the industry, network strain and congestion?
The cash injection was inevitable, I mentioned it in last years 180 million "bailout".
Either way it's good and bad I'm my opinion. They now have expectations and have to deliver on it.

I don't recall handing out investment advise.

 

[OMB]

Sigh. As a company, a telecoms company roi is built into tariffs and infrastructure. If you cannot yield profits from your product you stagnant. If I recall their growth stats and forecasts are below what was projected, their growth did not just creep up on them. Surely mr akc with all his knowledge should have understood this and forecasted this? It's part and parcel of the industry, network strain and congestion?
The cash injection was inevitable, I mentioned it in last years 180 million "bailout".
Either way it's good and bad I'm my opinion. They now have expectations and have to deliver on it.

I don't recall handing out investment advise.

which is probably a good thing

 

[AlmightyBender]

Sigh. As a company, a telecoms company roi is built into tariffs and infrastructure. If you cannot yield profits from your product you stagnant. If I recall their growth stats and forecasts are below what was projected, their growth did not just creep up on them. Surely mr akc with all his knowledge should have understood this and forecasted this? It's part and parcel of the industry, network strain and congestion?
The cash injection was inevitable, I mentioned it in last years 180 million "bailout".
Either way it's good and bad I'm my opinion. They now have expectations and have to deliver on it.

Ok lets go through the history of Cell C:
Step One: Raise capital to build a network. Recupe costs via tariffs.
Step Two: Growth in subscribers leads to network capacity being reached
Step Three: Raise further capital to expand network. Recupe costs via future tariffs.
????
Step Four: Profit

So explain to us again how this is a bailout....

 

[falcon786]

Guys stop getting all excited,Haldex is affiliated with Vodacom if you guys haven't noticed yetI'm sure his investment skills are just fine however it is his job to run Cell C(competition) down so let him do his thing.

This is by no means a bailout but in fact a planned cash investment by Oger telecoms,they have another one PLANNED for 2014 as well just as they had this one planned with the $180 million dollar investment previously.So its all going according to plan for them they want subscriber numbers and they are getting it hence Oger is keeping the funds running.This is a CAPEX input.

Lets hope they can get their infrastructure sorted in those areas that need it.I wonder how much R5,7 billion can get them,building/upgrading a network is not exactly cheap in SA.

 

[falcon786]

ill bail myself out of this thread.
Till the next bail out/cash injection thread...

Lol so you will stop commenting on Cell C threads until 2014 because thats when the next one is due?Call it bailout or capital investment or whatever you need to

 

[Haldex]

Guys stop getting all excited,Haldex is affiliated with Vodacom if you guys haven't noticed yetI'm sure his investment skills are just fine however it is his job to run Cell C(competition) down so let him do his thing.

This is by no means a bailout but in fact a planned cash investment by Oger telecoms,they have another one PLANNED for 2014 as well just as they had this one planned with the $180 million dollar investment previously.So its all going according to plan for them they want subscriber numbers and they are getting it hence Oger is keeping the funds running.This is a CAPEX input.

Lets hope they can get their infrastructure sorted in those areas that need it.I wonder how much R5,7 billion can get them,building/upgrading a network is not exactly cheap in SA.

Not affiliated to them in any way, I dont even even have shares in any of them.
I Just noticed and almost fell victim to the Cell C hoohaa hence my current views, glad I stayed true to my gut feeling and saved myself from moving to Cell C.
Last year was also a capex input, but look how that turned out?

I see you seem to be affiliated with Cell C.

Lol so you will stop commenting on Cell C threads until 2014 because thats when the next one is due?Call it bailout or capital investment or whatever you need to

Yip, next bail out is in 2014, the balance of 500B I think.
Fact is AKC said had it not been for this money they couldnt "upgrade" or fix their network, shows a dependency on the funding. No dependency equals adequate profits.

 

[Bona Botse]

Oger Telecom. Is Shrek their CEO?

Sherk, actually .

 

[Haldex]

Ok lets go through the history of Cell C:
Step One: Raise capital to build a network. Recupe costs via tariffs.
Step Two: Growth in subscribers leads to network capacity being reached
Step Three: Raise further capital to expand network. Recupe costs via future tariffs.
????
Step Four: Profit

So explain to us again how this is a bailout....

In which era? Lars or AKC?
Lars spent on infrastructure, AKC stopped or slowed the deployment and went straight into a tariff war with VC.
Profit, in Cell C? Lol maybe in 2014, but who knows what card the competition will play? TM is already the cheapest prepaid solution today.

 

[AlmightyBender]

Yip, next bail out is in 2014, the balance of 500B I think.
Fact is AKC said had it not been for this money they couldnt "upgrade" or fix their network, shows a dependency on the funding. No dependency equals adequate profits.

You understand nothing about capital markets. By this logic all companies that raise capital for any reason at any time other than startup are receiving a bailout. You are just being a troll now, as always.

EDIT: How is this any different from your Most Holy Vodacom raising capital to expand? Do you think that R7 billion came out of retained earning?

 

[falcon786]

Not affiliated to them in any way, I dont even even have shares in any of them.
I Just noticed and almost fell victim to the Cell C hoohaa hence my current views, glad I stayed true to my gut feeling and saved myself from moving to Cell C.

I find that hard to believe based on your ardent defending of Vodacom in previous threads,but since I can't find them right now I'll let it go,I still have that suspicion and I'm watching you,one wrong move and I'm onto you bro

Last year was also a capex input, but look how that turned out?

Based on the fact that I now have Cell C reception at my home for the past year and in the past six months 3G was turned on at my in laws remote dorpie in MP I think its turning out quite good for us Cell C customers,I very rarely find myself in an area without cell c coverage these days and in those few places I do find no cell c then it switches over to the vodacom roaming which somehow always seems to be much more buggy than if I'm using Cell C towers(I don't know if thats because they give cell c less preference when roaming or if the vodacom network just sucks in those areas also because to be fair those are relatively remote places.)

I see you seem to be affiliated with Cell C.

I am,I left MTN after 12 years of being with them and now I am happily affiliated with Cell C as my mobile network of choice,as for employment however I work for myself in a completely unrelated industry.

Yip, next bail out is in 2014, the balance of 500B I think.
Fact is AKC said had it not been for this money they couldnt "upgrade" or fix their network, shows a dependency on the funding. No dependency equals adequate profits.

From where I'm sitting every network needs to fix their network since they are all crap,mtn is probably the worst because they have a crap network even though they have the highest prices.Cell C's problem is more of coverage and thats "upgrade" related as is congestion.If they need more money to upgrade capacity and roll out more coverage then surely that is CAPEX.Sure they also have to probably maintain and repair some infrastructure but hey that also falls under the definition of capex not bailout.

From wiki:

Included in capital expenditures are amounts spent on:
acquiring fixed, and in some cases, intangible assets
repairing an existing asset so as to improve its useful life
upgrading an existing asset if its results in a superior fixture
preparing an asset to be used in business
restoring property or adapting it to a new or different use
starting or acquiring a new business

From Investopedia:

Definition of 'Capital Expenditure - CAPEX'
Funds used by a company to acquire or upgrade physical assets such as property, industrial buildings or equipment. This type of outlay is made by companies to maintain or increase the scope of their operations. These expenditures can include everything from repairing a roof to building a brand new factory.

 

[Bern]

Haldex - the point you are getting confused is what a bailout is. Look at SAA for a great example.

Cell C are not in a situation where they can't continue, rather they are getting funds to upgrade and expand, this is known as investment. Investment normally means you expect a future return, not an immediate return.

 

[whatwhat]

Haldex - the point you are getting confused is what a bailout is. Look at SAA for a great example.

Cell C are not in a situation where they can't continue, rather they are getting funds to upgrade and expand, this is known as investment. Investment normally means you expect a future return, not an immediate return.

Suggest you look at their financials, which were public up until 2-3 years ago when they stopped showing them. They are a sinking ship.

 

[midnightcaller]

Most businesses have a split of CAPEX and OPEX in any financial year.

The various sources of funding CAPEX investments is material here. So far we know oger is pumping in 350M. I would be interested to know what percentage of total CAPEX the USD350M is. I would also like to know what ability the business has to generate and retain cash for future investment activities.
That's my 2cents.

 

[falcon786]

Suggest you look at their financials, which were public up until 2-3 years ago when they stopped showing them. They are a sinking ship.

Are you going around spamming every cell c thread,geez how many vodacom employees visit mybb...there should be a poll out for this(Do you work for vodacom or something along those lines)!

At least Jannie is the only one honest about it,and I can respect a person like that, the rest of you are....:erm: