[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

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So wha you guys are saying. Is that we will have to pay. And we don't have a choice?

I might just take back routes. Leave home and work an hour earlier. There really is no way to get around this and we will all have criminal records for not paying. I would still like to know what the charge would be.

Lastly are all of you guys going to just pay anyway even if you don't get tags?

I will never get an eTag. Allowing SANRAL access to my account is asking for crap.
 
So wha you guys are saying. Is that we will have to pay. And we don't have a choice?

I might just take back routes. Leave home and work an hour earlier. There really is no way to get around this and we will all have criminal records for not paying. I would still like to know what the charge would be.

Lastly are all of you guys going to just pay anyway even if you don't get tags?

I will never get an eTag. Allowing SANRAL access to my account is asking for crap.

I refuse to pay, not a cent
 
This is my strategy....

1) Use highways as normal
2) Take note of which gantries I drive under in a log book.
3) Wait for invoices
4) When I get the invoices then I compare them to my log book. If I did indeed go under such a gantry then I make a note on that invoice.
5) Wait for letter of demand before paying invoice.
6) If I get stopped at a roadblock then offer to pay for invoice right then and there.
7) If the invoice does not match my log book, then I send a letter acknowledging receipt and requesting photographic proof.
8) Make copies of all correspondence and keep in vehicle.

It will be expensive, because I will be charged the late fees and the higher rate, but the point here is to delay as long as possible and to create as much paperwork as possible. It will mean that I will have to pay some of them, but the point is to allow the wave of non-compliance to overtake SANRAL in their processing.

Within Six Months SANRAL acknowledges that they are running behind on their processing.
Within a year the system grinds to a halt.
 
Sick. The cANCer lowlifes have us by the balls it seems!

E-Tolls: Be Under No Illusions

10 October 2013, 11:55

Some time ago, I wrote an article in which I shrugged my shoulders, that e-tolling was a fait accompli. Our only hope as citizens of The Fat Zulu’s South Africa, was that there would be some reassurance regarding the use of the cash. Alas.
With the dismissal of OUTA’s application by the Supreme Court of Appeal, and seemingly simultaneous publication of tariffs in the Government Gazette, there is no further impediment to SANRAL launching the scheme.
In revisiting the issue, I would like to re-emphasise why civil disobedience against the system will not work, or rather, why the rules and regulations will be enforced so ruthlessly. Remember that the recently enacted, so-called ‘E-Tolls Bill’ makes non-compliance a criminal act.
(And don’t you dare s****** behind you monitors, good people of Cape Town, Durban and PE. With the precedent set in Gauteng, you’re next.)
Kapsch Trafficcom
Austrian company, Kapsch, has been contracted to manage the e-toll system for the first five years, at a not unsubstantial fee. Kapsch has decades of experience in the management of open-road tolling systems. In Europe, they process billions of transactions a month, for tens of millions of motorists, on dozens of toll systems, in various countries.
Now, given their ability to enforce compliance across international boundaries, for millions of motorists, what makes you think that they won’t be able to handle a few thousand motorists in a single province?
Additionally, think about it: every transaction will be logged anyway, whether it is processed from a basis of compliance or not, is largely irrelevant to Kapsch.
‘They Can’t Arrest Us All’
Another rallying cry against the system is that SANRAL and/or Kapsch will not be able to act against every motorist not using an e-tag and/or not paying invoices.
Here’s the bad news: they won’t have to. Let me explain, courtesy of an example. Suspend belief for a moment.
It’s 17h00 on a Friday. It’s been a long week, and you’re on the N1, heading home for a relaxing weekend. Suddenly, traffic. 45 Minutes later, you reach the checkpoint at the head of the queue. It’s a SANRAL compliance roadblock. Cars fitted with e-tags and those paying up monthly, are free to proceed. Motorists with minor e-toll arrears are allowed to pay up at the roadside, and also head off. Citizens who are deemed to be too far in arrears, and those without number plates, are arrested on the spot. You do not have an e-tag, you have flouted the regulations for six months, and you are nicked.
Your mobile is confiscated and sealed in a bag, and you are seated in a bus with 24 other people. When the bus is filled it will take you to the SANRAL detention centre for processing. A SANRAL representative impounds your car, and removes it to their premises for safe-keeping. The whole thing is overseen by members of the SAPS and JMPD, and is completely legal.
Your attorney is powerless to act, since court will only be open on Monday. Your family is frantic with worry, and SANRAL makes no distinction between ‘nice’ and ‘unsavoury’ characters, you are all in the cell together. Officials offer you an out. If you pay your arrears, plus a fine, and you register for an e-tag, you will be released. But you are sticking to your guns.
On Monday morning, you are brought before the court. SANRAL requests a postponement for further investigation, and bail is set at R1,000. You are taken to the impoundment lot, where you discover that your car has been relieved of its sound system, and damaged. The official in the office shrugs his shoulders. He cannot monitor 380 cars all the time. When you try to take it further, you are accused by SANRAL of trying to extort betterment out of them. Your claim is dismissed.
Some weeks later, you have your day in court, and are found guilty. In addition to payment of the arrears and a fine, you receive a criminal record. You will not be able to apply for a visa for the USA, Europe or Australia, until the offence has been expunged from your record.
Scary. SANRAL will only need to pull this stunt on a few thousand people, for the message to get around. Moreso when those arrested and detained in appalling conditions are girlfriends, wives, mothers. And the elderly. At every dinner party and braai across the province, there will be horrific tales of somebody that was arrested and kept locked up for the weekend. Talk radio will be flooded with howls of outrage. Nazir Alli will respond smugly that if the compliance rate hits 80%, they’ll stop the roadblocks.
Faced with the might of the State, you will comply. Some people are already calling the e-tag, the new dompas.
Bloody Agent!
Before you accuse me of being on SANRAL’s side, let me assure you, I’m not. But I was familiar with certain aspects of the project in the past, and I know where SANRAL is coming from. SANRAL has to make the Gauteng e-road system work. They overspent substantially, due to construction company collusion. If they don’t have a means of clawing back the cash, they’ll be left to carry the can.
Their arrangement with Kapsch is Dodgy with a capital D. If that gets investigated, who knows what will emerge. That’s why a provincial issue has gone so far as to require national legislation.
It’s also why the usual trick of a crisp lion or a McDs meal, that you normally use to get out of a Metro Police ticket, will not work. Because SANRAL will be employing private contractors to do their bidding, not the police. They will be remunerated based on their successes in raking in monies owing. Unlike the police, they will be motivated to act against me and you. They will not be nice people.
Perhaps the scariest of all, is that the masses, the electorate which returns the ANC to power every five years, has been brought on board from the beginning. Remember that taxis and buses are exempt, and for those millions of ANC voters, e-tolls are a non-issue. Therefore we cannot even plead for a change of government, which would then instruct SANRAL to drop e-tolls.
Woe is us.
 
Within Six Months SANRAL acknowledges that they are running behind on their processing....

Government steps in and bail them out with R5b (just as with SAA) and they employ even more staff/resources and keeps on going....
 
Sick. The cANCer lowlifes have us by the balls it seems!

As scary as it sounds, what that guy is describing is so out of touch with reality that should fall under the category of Fantasy, not news comment. There are so many constitutional problems with his scenario that it is rendered utterly worthless. If SANRAL actually tried this with a few people they would have their bums handed to them on a legal plate. The first few 'cases' that they try to make an example out of will end up in the constitutional court so fast and the entire system will be scrapped. Watch this space. Not to mention the fact that it is physically impossible for SANRAL to handle the sheer number of cases that this mess is going to generate!
 
SANRAL is relying on people buying tags. Reading non-sense about criminal conviction is just a plain joke. Over the last 2 months I have been intimately involved in the criminal prosecution process and I can tell you that I will laugh off a SANRAL criminal prosecution attempt any day. Those horror stories about arresting people on the side of the road and having to spend weekends in prison are no more than trying to panic people.

Do you honestly think that you will land up in prison and have to pay bail for not paying road-taxes? The news24 article is absolute rubbish - do you honestly think that you would have to post 1K bail for not paying e-Toll - it's laughable. I think any lawyer would have a party with SANRAL's attempt to lock people up on the side of the road.

I hope all South Africans give SANRAL both middle fingers. The supreme court judge with the sentiment "it's too late to change things" had obviously bias - there is always time to change things. Remember that as a tax-paying citizen you are paying politicians salaries and it is not the first time, that citizens of a country have protested against a government decision and turned it around. If it means "civil disobedience", then so be it. I am just speechless to see how many people queued up today at e-Toll shops (Cedar Square) to buy tags (to avoid the mad rush a women claimed) - just like sheep, so please don't be one yourself :)
 
Dead Loss

http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/dead-loss/28626

“Toll revenues - Lost stability” read the Power Point presentation earlier this week as Estradas de Portugal (EP) roads chief António Ramalho, disclosed how administration fees on previously unpaid motorways (SCUT) were eating into the company’s already waning profits.

Combined with plummeting road usage and a growing number of users failing to pay tolls, EP chairman, Ant-ónio Ramalho expressed real concern over the sustainability of the company.

This position is now further exacerbated following an investment, approved last week by the cash-strapped government, to spend €111 million on urgent road upgrades and maintenance this year, up from €80 million spent in 2012.

António Ramalho had already explained last month that cars travelling on SCUT motorways without an electronic tagging device cost as much to bill as the amount they pay for using the toll road.

The system is unsustainable and we hope it doesn’t stay the way it is. If it doesn’t change, we will not have enough money to conserve, preserve and maintain a road network which is considered the fourth best amongst OECD member nations”, Mr. Ramalho argued.

Currently, 29 percent of all monies collected from these motorways are channelled towards administrative fees, which rose from €17 million in 2011 to €42 million last year.

Mr. Ramalho, this week, meanwhile promised a stringent revision of the system, which is expected to come into force after the October municipal elections.

He had earlier this year pledged to have a new system operational by April, but it seems that persistent glitches during testing have resulted in yet another postponement.

Overall, revenue from SCUT motorways plummeted by 74 percent in 2012 on the previous year, EP said, and with traffic figures dropping even further in 2013, there seems to be no apparent end to the rot.

The EP chief openly admitted that the expected revenue from these motorways is “frankly well below those indicated by initial studies” commissioned by the government.

While there is little that can be done to boost revenue from these much-maligned motorways, Mr. Ramalho has announced renewed efforts to obtain money through enforced payments from motorists who use these routes without paying, many of them repeatedly so.

Last year, EP failed to collect a total of €30.6 million from offending drivers.

On average, 19 percent of toll-road users fail to pay for using a SCUT motorway.

The chasing down of these outstanding payments has been handed over to tax officials, who could go as far as ordering police to seize transgressing drivers’ vehicles to secure payment of tolls, though no such action has yet been reported.

Another headache for EP has been that thousands of cars have streamed onto secondary roads across the country since the introduction of tolls on SCUT motorways.

The Algarve, in particular, has seen thousands more cars flood the EN125 while the A22 motorway has seen traffic more than halved.

This has left the Government in a situation where not only has it to pay road operators more to maintain secondary roads (based on ballooning traffic counts) but it has also lost income from toll roads, boycotted by a combination of cash-strapped and angry motorists.

Concerns are now being consistently raised as to the profitability of charging tolls on previously unpaid or so-called SCUT motorways.

Revenue from tolls on SCUT motorways are paid to EP by road operators, who in turn are paid back by the state, based on traffic and monies generated on routes they are contracted to maintain.

The situation is slightly different on secondary routes, but private contractors on roads such as the EN125 have benefitted from an increase in traffic as they too, are paid by the car.

Based on figures from 2012, traffic on the EN125 can expect an increase of around 3,000 cars each day during the summer months. Certain stretches, such as the one between Odiáxere and Estômbar (an alternative to one of the more costlier stretches on the A22) witnessed traffic climb by an average of 5,400 vehicles a day in August.

But the rising demand of the EN125 has not translated into any visible improvements.

The opposite has in fact been true, with the Government cutting back €150 million euros (roughly a third) from the budget the road was allocated even prior to the introduction of tolls.

In recent comments to The Portugal News, the leader of the Commission of Via do Infante (A22) road-users, João Vasconcelos, stressed that “tolls don’t have any future in the Algarve.”

“The introduction of tolls in the Algarve has seen the region go back 20 years and has compounded the economic woes of its people.”
 
Those horror stories about arresting people on the side of the road and having to spend weekends in prison are no more than trying to panic people.

Anyone see new holding cells being built in Jhb ?

Agreed - whoever wrote that letter is a scaremonger.
 
A22 tolls fiasco symptomatic of wider Portuguese roads policy failure

http://www.almaverde.com/blog/finan...tic-of-wider-portuguese-roads-policy-failure/

If at first you don’t succeed…

In the meantime, Estradas de Portugal (EP) is already field-testing a new toll charging system to replace the one introduced only at the end of 2011. In June of this year, the President of EP, António Ramalho, publicly admitted that the current payment model was ineffective and unsustainable. Administration costs alone absorb 29% of the toll payments collected.

The new system will render the existing overhead gantries obsolete by installing charging technology at every motorway entrance and exit. Scheduled for deployment as early as 2014, it will eliminate inconsistencies in the amount paid per kilometre over different stretches of motorway.

According to the Algarve Daily News, this is failure on a grand scale. Not only is the government persisting in collecting tolls in the face of heavy economic and legal objections; it is wasting more money on a new system that, while it may save in running costs, will do nothing to make using the A22 more affordable or to redress the damage already done to the struggling Algarve economy.

So that is what we might have to look forward to.
The government admits that the overhead gantries are not working and places toll collection booths on the onramps and offramps causing massive traffic backlogs and rendering the GFIP completely pointless.
 
Well if 70 to 80% of the people fall for it then SANRAL has won...

Right now the govt and Sanral are having sleepless nights wondering will they or won't they.

They are well aware that whatever their threats are, if there is sufficient civil disobedience the e-toll plan is lost.

But that depends on us.
 
Sick. The cANCer lowlifes have us by the balls it seems!

Apart from all the corruption and service delivery I'm also getting really tired of living in a country filled with so many ****ing wussies.

What a ridiculous bunch of crap! A person must really live with their head up their arse if this toss truly scares them... and what gets me the most is that it's these kind of ****ers that make it so hard for the few of us to stand up against anything. A kind of self fulfilling prophecy if you like.

Morons like this should take a long hard look at the kind of rights a person actually has, before we start losing them.... we already are.
 
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Well I told my whole family that if I catch them with an e-tag that they can go F themselves. Family or no family... this is serious business :wtf:

^ This.
Friend of my enemy type of thing.
Time to take some personal responsibility, you get what you deserve and it should be pretty much common knowledge by know that people in power will push it as far as they can unless you draw a line.

Those same people always going on about how fat, dumb, useless etc. etc. the authorities are yet they bend over like scared little jail whores at the whim of their own imagination.
 
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Maybe we should all buy 'taxi's' as our next vehicle.

Register our own taxi union etc... etc.... etc.....

Each day you will have 10,000 empty taxi's driving down the N1
 
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